Hello,

 

recent owner (1 month)  of a 2012 4x4 estate and I'm getting up to date with all things VAG diesel...GULP! As in DPF's and EGR's...££££'s

 

So I got the VAG DPF app after reading on this very great site...thanxs....

 

Skoda tell me the car has had the Dreaded Fix....arrrggghhh

 

The Vag Dpf is showing a regen every 150 miles...?? And the car sounds and behaves in such a way too...but no light on dash ?

 

The car often gets driven with enthusiastic forwards motion on long motorway blasts.

 

It's at 130k miles now, runs and drives well  (after some diff and haldex rebuilding)  but I suspect the engines on borrowed time due to the cost of DPF & Egr...

 

 

Should I get skoda involved regarding the regens, I don't think it is acceptable or good for the environment in any way carrying on this ludicrus pantomone every few miles...

 

cheers all

 

Harry

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome.

 

There is 24 months from 'the fix' carried out of the Trust Building to be holding VW / Skoda responsible for things going t!ts up so maybe you best raise the issues at an Approved Repairer and take advantage of VW / Skoda footing the bill on any hardware or labour if The Fix is the issue.

The fix might be or not the cause of this thing.

It's also possible that DPF is simply full with ash and it could do regenerations without fix as well. The less free space is left there, the sooner it regenerates. The cause of that? Bad driving, using wrong oil, high mileage.

If I've understood you correctly, everything seems to be working normally and the car is electing to do a regen automatically when it's needed. There should only be a light if something has gone wrong and it needs driver intervention.

 

Might be worth adding a screenshot from the VAG DPF app to show the health of your DPF.

To lower NOx values on these "fixed" engines the fix updated software surely use more often the EGR. OK, we get lower NOx, but it leads into higher production of PM which fill up the DPF sooner ... Hence the more often regens ...

 

Vorsprung durch Technik

https://www.audi.co.uk/owners-area/emissions/trust-building-measure.html

http://www.skoda-auto.com/other/ea189-tbm

http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo/trust-building-measure/

http://info.volkswagen.com/gb/en/home.html?iframe=true&tab=additional

http://www.seat.co.uk/owners/diesel-engines/trust-building-measure.html

 

Edited 19 July, 20187 yr by rayx

Thanks for replies...i just got a screen shot..just learning about what each bit means

 

It's the oil ash residue level that's probably the most important number for DPF lifespan.

 

Basically, the DPF collects soot. When there is enough soot, the car will try and burn it off but some oil ash residue is left, this will slowly build up until the DPF is clogged and can't function properly. There is no definitive maximum from Skoda but online it's suggest the maximum is around 175ml for this kind of engine. There are reports of other cars hitting 300ml+ without issue so I can't be sure that 175ml is a hard limit.

 

Based on your current level of 0.13l and 130k miles, you *might* need a new DPF in 40-50k... That matches the expectations of some other forum members that have posted milage/oil ash levels.

14 hours ago, harryrope said:

Should I get skoda involved regarding the regens, I don't think it is acceptable or good for the environment in any way carrying on this ludicrus pantomone every few miles...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've got a derv... it's not good for the environment full stop!

Thanks for the info, that is a relief regarding the DPF ..I'll get saving..

 

The app shows already with just another 90miles since the last regen..its getting ready for another...

 

Been filling up with Shell V power over the last couple of tank fulls..I see the EGR is past half way so I guess this is also on the replacement list ?

 

Am I right in thinking the EGR is getting bunged up due to rising oil as residue and by keeping this to a minimum (fuel quality and driving style etc) I can possibly prolong its demise...

 

Thanks again to all....brilliant site this

There isn't anything to show exactly how gummed up the EGR is.

 

It shouldn't be related to oil ash as that should only be found in the DPF. Instead, carbon and other deposits build up over time until there is insufficient flow causing an error code. I'd expect the EGR value to be constantly changing as driving

 

It's not uncommon for EGR's to need replacing at your mileage. If it fails before 160k and within two years of the fix being applied, it *should* be covered by the trust building measure. Still, it's not a cheap replacement if it does fail.

Raise the issue with Skoda directly using the free phone number for cars that have had the emissions fix. Get a case number. 

They wil then get you a courtesy car whilst yours is in for free diagnostics.

You are not the first to have regens every 150 miles after the fix.  

Read about the 11 qualifying parts under the Trust Building Measures from Skoda and the other VAG makes.

TBM applies during two years from the date of the software "fix".

Somebody needs to get the word out that if sombody wants a diesel, they need go old school PD or get a Euro 6 unless you can prove it hasn't had the fix done.

 

Nobody should be sold a car that has been ruined by 'the fix'

@pikpilot Thanks. I've spoke to Skoda, explained the situation and they have me booked in to my local dealers for diagnosis next week, free of charge.

 

It makes a noise and the fans are blasting even when parked after 30 - 60 miles on the motorway.

 

@SuperbTWM Yes, I think i'll announce to twitter once I have the full facts....but will wait until the diagnosis, it might be a different problem and nothing to do with the update ??

 

cheers

 

Up date - The Skoda dealer had the car from yesterday morning 9am overnight until this morning, they say they have carried out full diagnostic check with before and after test drives and diagnostic....of course...NO fault found.

 

Asked for a report in writting and recieved a basic print out with nothing too specific.

I asked the service reception if they thought a regen every 150 miles is acceptable. No

I asked if I can gather some evidence of the problem will they sort it out. Yes

 

To be fair, the chap I dealt with and the general air of the place is friendly and polite.

 

I will use vcds and various other methods to now track /record and monitor the regens...perhaps give it a couple of weeks..at some point I will ask Skoda to look into the problem again.

 

On leaving the dealers, I mentioned it would probably be about to do a regen....

 

 

 

The TBM does not specifically include the DPF, but the Facebook page I mentioned earlier has members who have had their DPF replaced after making a fuss, usually because they previously had one or more EGR replaced under TBM too.

It is fact that the new software will put soot in the DPF at about three times the previous rate. It is not helped by the short or slow journeys you are making (average speed is about 27 mph from your data above). Having said that, your DPF is not at end of life yet.

 

I see the current way forward is that they will monitor your car and Skoda will say there are are many other people who regen every 150 miles. That is true but only on fixed cars! That is when you will have to a get very firm with Skoda, as others have done, and point out the difference in miles between regenerations pre and post fix. At least your garage have actually admitted that 150 miles between regens is unacceptable. Do you have in writing? Did you open a case with Skoda and get a case number?

 

For completeness, the Trust Bulding Measures say:-

The Trust Building Measure covers a total of 11 components within the exhaust gas recirculation system, the fuel injection system and the emissions after treatment system: lambda probe, temperature sensor, EGR changeover valve, exhaust gas recirculation valve, exhaust gas recirculation pressure differential sensor, injector, high pressure pump, fuel rail, pressure control valve, pressure sensor, high pressure pipelines.

4 hours ago, pikpilot said:

The TBM does not specifically include the DPF, but the Facebook page I mentioned earlier has members who have had their DPF replaced after making a fuss, usually because they previously had one or more EGR replaced under TBM too.

It is fact that the new software will put soot in the DPF at about three times the previous rate. It is not helped by the short or slow journeys you are making (average speed is about 27 mph from your data above). Having said that, your DPF is not at end of life yet.

 

I see the current way forward is that they will monitor your car and Skoda will say there are are many other people who regen every 150 miles. That is true but only on fixed cars! That is when you will have to a get very firm with Skoda, as others have done, and point out the difference in miles between regenerations pre and post fix. At least your garage have actually admitted that 150 miles between regens is unacceptable. Do you have in writing? Did you open a case with Skoda and get a case number?

 

For completeness, the Trust Bulding Measures say:-

The Trust Building Measure covers a total of 11 components within the exhaust gas recirculation system, the fuel injection system and the emissions after treatment system: lambda probe, temperature sensor, EGR changeover valve, exhaust gas recirculation valve, exhaust gas recirculation pressure differential sensor, injector, high pressure pump, fuel rail, pressure control valve, pressure sensor, high pressure pipelines.

Great info, thank you.

I have a case open now and a case manager/number. The dealer said my complaint was logged on the system now.

 

 cheers

 

 

 

something to ponder on...

 

if there is a faulty dpf pressure sensor, 9 times out of 10 you will not get an error on the dash unless the circuit from the sensor is incomplete.

 

the vehicle detects how much soot is in there to burn by taking the kpa pre and post DPF. if the pressure sensor on either side is not functioning as intended, faulty or caked up, you will find that the car will regen alot more often.

 

now i know it's a completely different vehicle, my mazda 3 skyactiv-D (verrrrrrrry different technology, but similar principal in the emissions system) had a blocked tube to exhaust pressure sensor 2 which was post dpf, was doing a regen every 150KM (yes kilometre!) and flooding my oil with diesel. mazda had no idea, it was only through my checking through an OBD did the sensor return "unknown" but still completed the circuit therefore no engine management light.

 

you will find that as mentioned above, excessive use of the EGR under load will produce more exhaust gases and less fresh air, thus clogging the dpf.

 

it would also be worth ensure that the engine is fueling correctly and not overfueling causing excess soot.

 

oh, and clean your MAF!! very important part of the emissions system and VERY easy to access. can make a world of difference.

Edited 1 August, 20187 yr by Felvo

Do you have a screen shot of the figures once the DPF regen finishes?

 

My 1.6 starts regen at 88% and will burn off continuously, if uninterrupted, until it drops to about 5g of soot (which I think is about 20-25%). It would only reach 95%+ if I stuck with slow town driving all the time, and by then the DPF light on the dash would come on. Maybe yours isn't getting a full regen which would trigger shorter distances between? Although I see sense in the point above that as the oil ash increases the DPF will regen more frequently due to less capacity.

 

For info, I have 80k on the clock and the normal mileage between regens is about 420-440 miles.

Hope this helps, recent long runs ...have a log file with loads of info but using notepad it doesn't display correctly and figures all over the place...anyone know which log file viewer for VAG_DPF works best?

 

 

Harryrope, I've just noticed your "oil ash residue" measurement units are different to mine. My app displays this figure in "g" and the figure in the bottom left of the box is a %. i.e. currently it says 30g which is 43%. I'm assuming when it reaches 100% that's new DPF time. At quick glance all other data is the same.

 

My app version is Release 2.26.9, haven't noticed an update in a while, but may have missed one.

7 minutes ago, cmcm789 said:

Harryrope, I've just noticed your "oil ash residue" measurement units are different to mine. My app displays this figure in "g" and the figure in the bottom left of the box is a %. i.e. currently it says 30g which is 43%. I'm assuming when it reaches 100% that's new DPF time. At quick glance all other data is the same.

 

My app version is Release 2.26.9, haven't noticed an update in a while, but may have missed one.

 

That's nothing to do with the VAG DPF app.

 

It's the ECU that decides what units to use, if you were to use VCDS (or any other tool) it would also show in grams for your engine and litres for Harry's and mine. It's not something that can be changed

 

@harryrope - it might be worth posting the log file.

Oh, one more thing @harryrope - you might want to ask your dealer to check your ECU software version.

 

You're currently running 9977 but I believe that 9978 and 9979 have both been released for your ECU (03L 906 018 DA) which may improve things.

The above screen shots taken during a recent trip when the car was fully loaded with passengers and luggage driving at motorway speeds.

 

 

Thanks for the info again @langers2k

 

I think this is the log file...Vag_DPF_log[1].txt

 

I can't make sense of it with Win notepad...

 

 

Try importing it into Excel or similar.

 

It looks to be a tab separated CSV file and at least for me, Excel didn't have any problems with it.

47 minutes ago, langers2k said:

Try importing it into Excel or similar.

 

It looks to be a tab separated CSV file and at least for me, Excel didn't have any problems with it.

 

I tried Excel and although it opens the file I am struggling to make sense of the data, of which there seems an awful lot.

 

For example, the distance since regen colum gets down to 4,  miles per regen...I guess I am reading it wrong ?

 

Cheers again