dodgydealer Buying Experience 1.6 SR Civic 10th Gen & 8th Gen Accord from Holdcroft Honda Stoke (AVOID)

[Ootohere]

The OP's Review post is here.

http://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.holdcroft.com

 

[AaronMountford1990]

On 30/10/2018 at 10:23, Offski said:

Pity your are not in Scotland the Sunday Post would have run your story.

 

He who hesitates is lost, you might as well give Holdscroft some publicity,  as the CEO and Directors will know, all publicity is good publicity.  Get your name in the papers without paying for advertising.

 

Got to exhaust the ombudsman first

On 30/10/2018 at 11:20, LB123 said:

I think effective communication with the dealer along with any cooperation from them broke down early on. You then used citizens advice etc to to try to re-establish communication and assert your rights but this failed too. The dealer had taken a stance from which they were not going to budge. At that point I would have advised you consult a solicitor of your choice. This would be some time ago. You have been too kind to them and played their 'game', their 'rules' not your own. The dealer will certainly have taken legal advice. You may have signed away some of your rights in the resolution you have come to in their buyback of the cars. However for your own sakes consult a solicitor. You will have to pay. The solicitor will play by the actual contract rules. Your costs, compensation, loss of earnings, the shonky buyback fee etc could all be recovered. The only way forward for you.

Don't bother with any attempt to publicly shame them into a more reasonable stance. Waste of time and effort. They are without shame. (The are a car dealer after all!) It's about money only. Further public statements may put you at risk of saying something you can't defend and give them an advantage.

I sought legal advice already, they and citizens advice said a similar thing, they were in breach of consumer rights law because the fault reoccurred within the first 6 months so you're entitled to a refund, the fact they wouldn't leaves them on shaky legal ground, in addition they fall foul of the misrepresentation act, as they represented the Accord as a vehicle without fault despite there being issues that weren't remedied prior to pick up, and second the Civic was purchased on the understanding we'd have official heated seats and He-Man dual controls installed, it's misrepresentation as it's clear from a legal perspective that had we known we weren't getting those parts that we asked for it would have affected our transacational decision. 

 

I'm in touch with some other complainants at the moment, one who went to buy a Type R and noticed a whine on it, turned out the gearbox needed to come apart for diagnosis so he asked for a refund and stopped the transaction, rather than fixing the fault, they put the car back on the forecourt and sold it to someone else in the same condition who's since made contact with me and the dealerships trying everything to get out of admitting there was anything wrong with the car prior to sale. 

 

I'd love to find the previous owner of my Accord to be honest to see if it was sold with faults, if it was then they don't have a leg to stand on.

[Ootohere]

Are no Last Registered Keepers Details available if the Dealership had the car 'In Trade' and not registered to them or to you?

[AaronMountford1990]

21 hours ago, Offski said:

Are no Last Registered Keepers Details available if the Dealership had the car 'In Trade' and not registered to them or to you?

That's what I asked dvla but they said they aren't listed as the keeper and neither is the dealership. Sounds like a right bodge job.

 

Gonna try find out who the previous owner was and see if I can gleam anything from it. 

[PetrolDave]

2 minutes ago, AaronMountford1990 said:

Gonna try find out who the previous owner was and see if I can gleam anything from it. 

The previous owner should be shown on the V5C, it is on the V5C of both our cars which we bought second hand from dealers?

[Aspman]

DVLA probably wont release any details on previous keepers. This is what you can get - https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

 

A solicitor may be able to request more information but it might require court action to be raised first.

[Ootohere]

Only 'Registered Keepers' that you get to know. Not the 'Owner'.

So who was the first 'Registered keeper', and how many Registered Keeper up to you getting the car?

 

eg

I am a Registered Keeper, Motability Finance own the car not me.

When it goes to auction and a Dealer / Trader buys it it will be 'In trade',  any number of people might drive it, 

it might get sold to another Dealer / Trader & be 'In Trade',

it could be used as a courtesy car, then the next 'Buyer' will become 'Registered keeper' No2.  So one previous 'Registered Keeper'.

Edited 2 November, 2018 by Offski

[AaronMountford1990]

On 02/11/2018 at 09:48, PetrolDave said:

The previous owner should be shown on the V5C, it is on the V5C of both our cars which we bought second hand from dealers?

Don't have the V5, dealership was supposed to register the car in my name as part of the sale, they put the tax through which meant they must have had either the tax reminder or the log book as it needs one of three reference numbers, following that I assumed I'd get a log book in the post as you do and thought nothing more of it until it came to the complaint and sending the car back - at which point they kicked off saying they couldn't accept the car without a V5, then when I queried it with DVLA they said there's no registered keeper for this vehicle at all, there's a blank on their system.

 

 

On 02/11/2018 at 10:05, Aspman said:

DVLA probably wont release any details on previous keepers. This is what you can get - https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

 

A solicitor may be able to request more information but it might require court action to be raised first.

Yeah that won't help if there's no registered keeper for the vehicle, I had it confirmed with two separate advisors at DVLA, they confirmed I'm not the reg keeper, the dealership hasn't registered it as under trade with them which I believe they're supposed to, and it's not reverted back to the previous owner either (assuming he registered it also)

 

 

On 02/11/2018 at 10:12, Offski said:

Only 'Registered Keepers' that you get to know. Not the 'Owner'.

So who was the first 'Registered keeper', and how many Registered Keeper up to you getting the car?

 

eg

I am a Registered Keeper, Motability Finance own the car not me.

When it goes to auction and a Dealer / Trader buys it it will be 'In trade',  any number of people might drive it, 

it might get sold to another Dealer / Trader & be 'In Trade',

it could be used as a courtesy car, then the next 'Buyer' will become 'Registered keeper' No2.  So one previous 'Registered Keeper'.

That's the problem. For your insurance to be valid you declare you're the registered keeper of the vehicle, and I couldn't say how many other keepers it's had as I never had the log book to see the value 

So that essentially meant it didn't end up in trade as it should have done (which presumably makes the dealership insurance on the vehicle void as well, so any test drivers wouldn't have been covered as the car isn't technically in their ownership nor are they defined as in trade with DVLA, my insurance was void as I wasn't the keeper, I was paying tax on a vehicle I wasn't the keeper of which is quite a feat considering to pay tax on the car you need the logbook reference or tax reminder, neither of which I ever had (dealership set it up), and the GAP insurance I believe was also reliant on me being the registered keeper - which I've never been! 

[cheshire_cat]

in order to get insured you have to have "insurable interest" in the item/car subject of the policy hence I guess it follows declaration as registered keeper

[AaronMountford1990]

6 hours ago, cheshire_cat said:

in order to get insured you have to have "insurable interest" in the item/car subject of the policy hence I guess it follows declaration as registered keeper

Yup! Presumably if I'd have had an accident I could have argued it's on finance with me so it's insurable interest but if that failed I'd have been stuffed! 

[AaronMountford1990]

I managed to get my account unblocked from the other forum, turns out the former admin has been erm, removed...and replaced with a much nicer one who's fully aware of the situation and happy to have everything expressed on the forum with no fear of it being removed !

 

So it's back up !

 

https://h-tune.co.uk/club/threads/holdcroft-honda-cobridge-holdcroft-in-general-review-thepromiseisbroken.188174/live#post-2334841

 

and the other one I posted it too was 

 

https://www.civinfo.com/forum/buying-dealers-servicing/414252-buying-experience-1-6-sr-civic-10th-gen-8th-gen-accord-holdcroft-honda-stoke.html

 

I've had a rather positive number of responses from it tbh! I wasn't expecting 100% positive and I expected some digs by Holdcroft, but you can kind of tell who would be a genuine customer who'd be greatly annoyed if they were led down the same garden path as I was, and those who took the response as **** you, Holdcroft are the best thing since sliced bread (it really has been that OTT in one case...) 

 

Anyway, ombudsman case is still ongoing, and I'm keeping an eye on those who've been wronged by Holdcroft and will update every thread with each persons viewpoint, as some feel just because I'm the only person banned in 53 years that I must be some kind of tw*t, but it's not much to expect your car to just...work, I didn't want the world to be put right lol

[john999boy]

After reading all your experiences on the other links it amazes me just how badly the dealership is handling this.

 

I’ve no doubt that you’ll see it through to the bitter end Aaron. 

[AaronMountford1990]

On 24/02/2019 at 09:34, john999boy said:

After reading all your experiences on the other links it amazes me just how badly the dealership is handling this.

 

I’ve no doubt that you’ll see it through to the bitter end Aaron. 

 

Thanks John - yep, it's with the ombudsman at the minute who have partially upheld my complaint citing HH are in breach of their codes of conduct, something the entire business (all brands under the Holdcroft Motor Group) have signed up to uphold, they were hinting at not being able to rule on certain things without further evidence so they've had a 30+ page document detailing HH's failings in the Honda Accord we purchased (civic is subject to a separate complaint, they wouldn't look at them at the same time, that's on the to do list).

 

Waiting to hear back from them on that  

 

Another customer has just had a major win too after being mis-sold a type R that was supposedly approved used, FSH etc. turns out warranties were void as it had never been serviced at Honda in addition to it being business owned, and worse than that (as if that didn't void it enough) it was owned by Tegiwa tuning, a performance development facility who modified the **** out of it and took it on multiple track days, HH denied they did anything wrong to the high hills, however the ombudsman sided with the customer after the car was sold to him following a rejection from a previous buyer only ONE DAY BEFORE! 

[AaronMountford1990]

So, it turns out the Accord, sold as an approved used Honda with associated 12 month warranty, wasn't even eligible to be part of the Approved Used Scheme!

8 year is the limit on age for selling an Approved Used Vehicle, the accord was over this when sold, so it was miss sold from the get go!

 

I've had the 8 years confirmed by a separate non Holdcroft Honda dealership alongside Honda UK. 

The Accord was also rejected and returned by a previous customer prior to my ownership - highlighting it was a problem car before I had it! 

[Ootohere]

@AaronMountford1990

Was this thread not about a 'Brand new Honda'?  So what is with the over 8 years old?

Edited 27 August, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[AaronMountford1990]

1 minute ago, Roottootemoot said:

@AaronMountford1990

Was this thread not about a 2016 Honda?  So what is with the over 8 years old?

 

We purchased two vehicles, 1 was a brand new Civic from factory, and the second was an approved Used Honda Accord (59 plate). 

The initial post is a paste of what I posted in the other forum and relates to both cars, as the ombudsman wouldn't review both vehicles at the same time I'm having to do one after the other. 

 

So the updated comments are in relation to the miss selling of the Honda Accord as an approved used vehicle when in reality it wasn't eligible to be sold as such, had I known it didn't have said 12 months warranty It would have directly affected my decision making and I'd have gone elsewhere, as I wasn't a fan of the previous civic shapes personally, the Accord was the only vehicle on site that caught my eye, and I didn't know they'd been discontinued until looking more in depth into the history.

 

 

[Ootohere]

You went and bought an old car and thought it came with a 12 month warranty,

so did you get the paper work for 12 months warranty, or for less of a warranty like 3 or 6 months?

 

Dealerships might get it wrong, but not paying attention buying old cars be it a Honda or any make is down to the buyer.

[AaronMountford1990]

38 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

You went and bought an old car and thought it came with a 12 month warranty,

so did you get the paper work for 12 months warranty, or for less of a warranty like 3 or 6 months?

 

Dealerships might get it wrong, but not paying attention buying old cars be it a Honda or any make is down to the buyer.

 

Noooooo, don't think you're quite following this correctly...

 

the car was approved used, sold by a main dealer. As part of it being under the Honda UK approved used program it automatically comes with a FULL 12 months warranty alongside all of the safety checks, FSH etc etc. 

 

What actually happened was the car was too old to be part of that scheme and the dealership sold it regardless when in fact it shouldn't have been listed as under the scheme, because it wasn't eligible for the warranty

 

What I found afterwards was they put some kind of 12 months warranty on it but it wasn't the approved used one, it was some kind of listed plan warranty, something that doesn't cover the complete vehicle, only specific parts based on age. 

 

I only realised this when I found repairs weren't actually being invoiced to Honda as under warranty, they were being charged to the dealership - again I've no idea where these should or should not be invoiced as ordinarily no one asks the question when buying of who do you invoice for repairs?

 

You can't be expected to read and review every aspect of a sale it's not achievable as I would have had to have known the complete legalities of the approved used scheme, something as a customer you don't look into, if the car's approved used then yay you're buying it because of the piece of mind 12 months warranty gives you and the safety checks, FSH etc etc. 

 

This was sold as approved used by a main dealership when it didn't meet the criteria - it was miss sold. The car had a number of faults that were pointed out prior to hand over they didn't bother fixing so I had 6 months worth of constant repairs, the DPF packed up more times than I can count and I proved time and again it was nothing to do with my driving as there was no bloody soot in it! 

[Ootohere]

Read the T&C's next time of a Warranty then if buying old cars well out of Manufacturers Warranty.

 

If Mis-sold then use a Solicitor and English Law.

Edited 27 August, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[AaronMountford1990]

46 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

Read the T&C's next time of a Warranty then if buying old cars well out of Manufacturers Warranty.

 

If Mis-sold then use a Solicitor and English Law.

 

I assumed a main dealership knew what they were selling, I hadn't considered the dealership weren't aware of Honda UK's restrictions on what is and isn't approved used haha! 

If they can't get it right I'm gonna give myself a pass for not spotting it until later on 

 

Don't need a solicitor - it's with the ombudsman, that's what this service is for, it allows you to bring a case to them in the same way you would small claims court. 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Pity that so many that go to the ombudsman get no joy and the Dealers / Manufacturers do. 

But then their must be someone someplace sometime that gets a result that makes them whole. 

Good luck.

[AaronMountford1990]

On 27/08/2019 at 11:49, Roottootemoot said:

Pity that so many that go to the ombudsman get no joy and the Dealers / Manufacturers do. 

But then their must be someone someplace sometime that gets a result that makes them whole. 

Good luck.

 

Thanks bud, It's still ongoing now, I had an initial response which I've challenged with another 40+ pages of evidence.

Waiting on the ombudsman again now. Should they rule in my favour that's one car done and I need to open a case for the 2nd vehicle as they would only take one at a time!

 

The irony in all this is they've claimed i'm the ONLY person they've ever banned, I've seen a few other people now who have been told the same thing, one being banned for sending their ebay account a question and when he rang they just said well you were blocked for a reason and put the phone down - absolute amateurs they are. Wouldn't know professionalism if it hit them in the face sideways/

[silver1011]

Skoda UK dealers are franchisee's. This allows them access to approved used Skoda vehicles to sell on their forecourt, and to offer the comprehensive manufacturer backed warranty.

 

However, they are also free to sell Skoda vehicles (and non-Skoda vehicles) that do not qualify for the Skoda approved used scheme, alongside those that do.

 

Those that don't qualify are usually older vehicles, or have covered higher mileages. A warranty is still provided, but as you've discovered with Honda UK, it is offered by the retailer, not Skoda UK, often through a third party warranty company, but almost certainly never as comprehensive as the manufacturer backed warranty. Your contract either way is with the dealer, not the manufacturer.

 

Was the Honda Accord advertised as Honda approved used, or did you assume it was because it was on a franchised Honda forecourt?

[AaronMountford1990]

On 03/11/2019 at 20:28, silver1011 said:

Skoda UK dealers are franchisee's. This allows them access to approved used Skoda vehicles to sell on their forecourt, and to offer the comprehensive manufacturer backed warranty.

 

However, they are also free to sell Skoda vehicles (and non-Skoda vehicles) that do not qualify for the Skoda approved used scheme, alongside those that do.

 

Those that don't qualify are usually older vehicles, or have covered higher mileages. A warranty is still provided, but as you've discovered with Honda UK, it is offered by the retailer, not Skoda UK, often through a third party warranty company, but almost certainly never as comprehensive as the manufacturer backed warranty. Your contract either way is with the dealer, not the manufacturer.

 

Was the Honda Accord advertised as Honda approved used, or did you assume it was because it was on a franchised Honda forecourt?

Oh mate this wasn't a case of mistaken Identity, It had number plate covers on it saying the word "APPROVED" and it was listed in the advert it was an approved used Honda. 

 

When I was going through the purchase process they couldn't say enough how the approved used scheme only picked out the best cars for sale and it had a full Honda UK 12 month warranty for piece of mind. 

 

Turned out said warranty wasn't a Honda UK approved used warranty at all because the car was too old to be on the scheme at the time of sale, and they bloody should have known that (I suspect they did) as one of their ex employees now told me the car was sold to me after being rejected by someone else previously!!!

[Warrior193]

Phew Aaron, what a saga - I wish you all the best for your cases. A case like just seems totally unbelievable, but, unfortunately, there have been similar issues with Skoda owners on this forum.