Non-directional winter tyres?????? Do they exist????

[Ootohere]

No Electric Bikes,

& Fat Bikes and Studded Tyres where required.

[aka_pseudonym]

16 minutes ago, Offski said:

Electric Bikes,

& Fat Bikes and Studded Tyres

 

Must be some new invention for large people needing to burn off weight in the gym, presumably aimed at Hell's Angels whose belt decorations have become embedded in their midriff?

 

 

 

[Ryeman]

Light weight carbon fibre wheels -

http://www.carbonrev.com/aftermarket

 

very expensive and also requires different spring and damper tune to cope with the lack of weight.

Edited 10 September, 2018 by Ryeman

[aka_pseudonym]

9 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Light weight carbon fibre wheels -

http://www.carbonrev.com/aftermarket

 

I approve, very pretty - but I can't see a price anywhere!  And " ... saving more than 50% of the unsprung rotating mass when compared to OEM wheels." is about what a steel wheel does compared with a "normal" alloy I think.

 

 

 

[Ryeman]

7 minutes ago, aka_pseudonym said:

 

I approve, very pretty - but I can't see a price anywhere!  And " ... saving more than 50% of the unsprung rotating mass when compared to OEM wheels." is about what a steel wheel does compared with a "normal" alloy I think.

 

 

 

They are made near Geelong and particularly for track use. Definitely more than $A1000/wheel plus new spring/damper combination. For an exy JLR maybe not so bad, particularly if it’s a keeper.

[Ryeman]

Part of the problem is that engineers have bent to stylists and engineered the suspension accordingly.

Look at the clumsy Landcruiser.......massive clumsy wheels.

[aka_pseudonym]

20 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Part of the problem is that engineers have bent to stylists and engineered the suspension accordingly.

Look at the clumsy Landcruiser.......massive clumsy wheels.

 

That is a seriously ugly vehicle  - I can't believe any stylists were involved with that. 

[Ryeman]

2 minutes ago, aka_pseudonym said:

 

That is a seriously ugly vehicle  - I can't believe any stylists were involved with that. 

Mucho macho.

[KenONeill]

@aka_pseudonym - Any tyre marked "this side out" or similar is non-directional. Anything marked "Rotation ->" or similar is directional.

[langers2k]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

Any tyre marked "this side out" or similar is non-directional.

 

Apart from rare asymmetric directional tyres which should have both a rotation direction and inside/outside markings

[Auric Goldfinger]

Just now, langers2k said:

 

Apart from rare asymmetric directional tyres which should have both a rotation direction and inside/outside markings

 

Directional tyres have an arrow in the side to show which was it has to rotate.  They can only be swopped front to rear on the same side of the car, asymmetrical tyres can go on any corner

[langers2k]

5 hours ago, Auric Goldfinger said:

Directional tyres have an arrow in the side to show which was it has to rotate.  They can only be swopped front to rear on the same side of the car, asymmetrical tyres can go on any corner

 

There are four tyre types:

 

Non-directional symmetric tyres

Won't have a rotational or inside/outside marking and can be fitted on any corner.

 

Non-directional asymmetric tyres

Will only have an inside/outside marking and if mounted correctly, can be fitted on any corner.

 

Directional symmetric tyres

Will only have a rotational marking and can be fitted on any corner. Once mounted can only be swapped front to rear on one side.

 

Directional asymmetric tyres

Will have both a rotational and inside/outside marking which are quite rare and generally fitted to high performance vehicles. They are produced in two tread patterns, each of which can only be fitted to either the left or right of a vehicle. Check out the Yokohama Neova AD05 and AD06 for an example.

 

Edited 11 September, 2018 by langers2k
formatting

[aka_pseudonym]

8 hours ago, langers2k said:

 

There are four tyre types:

 

Non-directional symmetric tyres

Won't have a rotational or inside/outside marking and can be fitted on any corner.

 

Non-directional asymmetric tyres

Will only have an inside/outside marking and if mounted correctly, can be fitted on any corner.

 

Directional symmetric tyres

Will only have a rotational marking and can be fitted on any corner. Once mounted can only be swapped front to rear on one side.

 

Directional asymmetric tyres

Will have both a rotational and inside/outside marking which are quite rare and generally fitted to high performance vehicles. They are produced in two tread patterns, each of which can only be fitted to either the left or right of a vehicle. Check out the Yokohama Neova AD05 and AD06 for an example.

 

 

 

You are obviously highly knowledgeable about tyres langers2k, so can you answer another question please!

 

What makes a manufacturer or retailer describe a tyre as a "van" tyre?  Is there something specific like a more robust casing, or is it just marketing speak?

 

Bearing in mind I'm only looking for something to put on a spare to live in the boot I looked at this Nankang All Season Van which doesn't seem to be rotational, is M+S which I want, all season etc etc.  So what makes it "Van"?

 

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110&cart_id=hYb5wwD6W4OxWMSc.110.868311150&sowigan=GAN&Breite=215&Quer=60&Felge=16&Speed=&Load=&kategorie=6&Marke=&ranzahl=4&S_Z=&tyre_for=LLKW&x_tyre_for=&rsmFahrzeugart=LLKW&filter_preis_bis=&filter_preis_von=&search_tool=standard&Label=E-B-70-1&details=Ordern&typ=R-324390

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Quite low Speed Rating , T, load rating is OK for it as a spare.

I used to use Winter Remould Van Tyres on heavier cars & because i got them free.

Stirling Remoulds were a favourite of mine.

 

These were All-Weather Van tyres i was using on a not heavy pickup.

Goodyear Cargo Vector 2.

Edited 11 September, 2018 by Offski

[aka_pseudonym]

36 minutes ago, Offski said:

These were All-Weather Van tyres i was using on a not heavy pickup.

 

Snow has made a nice little circle in that wheel!  All ready to get at the bolts.

 

I wouldn't do 118mph on that van tyre!

 

[Ootohere]

You do not have to do speeds though do you, the tyres have to have a safe margin with a speed rating. 

UK limits are 60 MPH or 50 MPH / 70 MPH depending on the Class of road, class of Vehicle, and obvious other countries have their speed limits.

[aka_pseudonym]

5 minutes ago, Offski said:

You do not have to do speeds though do you, the tyres have to have a safe margin with a speed rating. 

UK limits are 60 MPH or 50 MPH / 70 MPH depending on the Class of road, class of Vehicle, and obvious other countries have their speed limits.

 

I think I want a Fulda tyre now - because it's described as  "Black. Wide. Strong."  Means it wouldn't get lost in the snow.

 

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110&cart_id=YRpHb6QokVjF0ipu.110.46819723&sowigan=Wi&Breite=215&Quer=60&Felge=16&Speed=&Load=&kategorie=&Marke=&S_Z=&tyre_for=&x_tyre_for=&m_s=3&Ang_pro_Seite=20&weiter=20&sort_by=preis&rsmFahrzeugart=ALL&filter_preis_bis=&filter_preis_von=&homologation=&reifentest_com=4&Label=B-B-72-2&details=Ordern&typ=R-319412

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Good tyre, XL so reinforced sidewalls which i like.  But then just as a spare so might never be on.

[AGFalco]

10 hours ago, Auric Goldfinger said:

They can only be swopped front to rear on the same side of the car

Unless you take the tyre off the rim and refit it the other way round.

 

 

1 hour ago, aka_pseudonym said:

What makes a manufacturer or retailer describe a tyre as a "van" tyre?  Is there something specific like a more robust casing, or is it just marketing speak?

Van tyres are normally tougher, have a higher weight rating and a slower speed rating and a higher maximum pressure limit.

 

Thanks AG Falco

[ejstubbs]

On 10/09/2018 at 20:10, aka_pseudonym said:

in the dark ages there were steel wheels made in two parts pressed out of a sheet of hopefully-not-recycled steel...

 

I'll look forward to reading comments about that bit.

 

OK, here's my comment: your remark about "hopefully-not-recycled steel" displays a woeful ignorance about modern industrial material production. I would refer you to this post by another Yeti afficionado for a concise explanation as to why.  Or if you prefer, here is a rather longer discourse on the subject.

 

That's not to say that, by accident or penny-pinching design, poor quality or inappropriately-specified steels may not end up being used for some purposes, but that has nothing to do with the feedstock for the production process of the steel and everything to do with greed and stupidity being allowed to overrule sound engineering.

 

[aka_pseudonym]

12 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

OK, here's my comment: your remark about "hopefully-not-recycled steel" displays a woeful ignorance about modern industrial material production. I would refer you to this post by another Yeti afficionado for a concise explanation as to why.  Or if you prefer, here is a rather longer discourse on the subject.

 

That's not to say that, by accident or penny-pinching design, poor quality or inappropriately-specified steels may not end up being used for some purposes, but that has nothing to do with the feedstock for the production process of the steel and everything to do with greed and stupidity being allowed to overrule sound engineering.

 

 

 

OK.  I read the links.  On the second there's:

 

"Even while two out of every three tons of new steel are produced from old steel, it is still necessary to continue to use some quantities of virgin materials. This is true because many steel products remain in service as durable goods for decades at a time ... "

 

Recently an ADA Group C2 Sportscar from about '84 (things that drove around Le Mans for 24hrs) was being rebuilt from the ground up for historic racing.  All the wishbones were visually fine but they failed tests and were found to have rusted "from the inside out" according to the report.  So why's that?  Surely that must be the quality of the steel - if it were the environment there'd be visual signs on the outside?  The "for decades to come" in that quote is probably why I display woeful ignorance because I expect stuff to outlast me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aka_pseudonym]

39 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

OK, here's my comment: your remark about "hopefully-not-recycled steel" displays a woeful ignorance about modern industrial material production. I would refer you to this post by another Yeti afficionado for a concise explanation as to why.  Or if you prefer, here is a rather longer discourse on the subject.

 

That's not to say that, by accident or penny-pinching design, poor quality or inappropriately-specified steels may not end up being used for some purposes, but that has nothing to do with the feedstock for the production process of the steel and everything to do with greed and stupidity being allowed to overrule sound engineering.

 

 

And yes - I should now edit "steel wheels made in two parts pressed out of a sheet of hopefully-not-recycled steel" that to become "steel wheels made in two parts pressed out of a sheet of hopefully good quality steel."

 

I will to it.

 

(Except it seems I can't - there's no "edit" option on my original post.  Is there a time limit?  I'm still learning.)

 

 

 

Edited 11 September, 2018 by aka_pseudonym

[KenONeill]

@aka_pseudonym - OK, there is a time limit (and not long either) on when you can edit a posting.

 

As to your comment about "heavy alloys", I'll agree that as long as you'll agree that it applies to wheel designs created by stylists, and not to those (eg most BBS, Lotus "wobbly web", original Tech Del Minilite...) created by proper engineers.

[aka_pseudonym]

10 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@aka_pseudonym - OK, there is a time limit (and not long either) on when you can edit a posting.

 

As to your comment about "heavy alloys", I'll agree that as long as you'll agree that it applies to wheel designs created by stylists, and not to those (eg most BBS, Lotus "wobbly web", original Tech Del Minilite...) created by proper engineers.

 

Yes, I'll agree with your agreeing.  There's a page here about production methods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy_wheel#Production_Methods

 

It seems obvious that the cheaper the production method the more the wheel will weigh - simply because it'll need more material to create enough strength.  That might be a woefully ignorant thing to say too though.

 

On Demon Tweeks some BBS wheels say " ... has been weight optimised using carefully selected manufacturing techniques that drastically reduce the weight."  That's fine except there are no actual weights shown anywhere for any make of wheel.  Likewise a look at Oz Racing's site features the word "lightweight" a lot but no actual weights.  OK, it's going to vary with rim size/width etc, but pretty easy to set up a little database to cover that.  Makes you wonder.

 

 

 

[KenONeill]

12 hours ago, aka_pseudonym said:

On Demon Tweeks some BBS wheels say "...

Which may be a comment on DT rather than on BBS themselves. Certainly BBS were one of the first companies to produce forged rather than cast alloy wheels, and more recently, to make magnesium competition wheels using a spinning rather than forging or casting process.

 

Having said which, even if you don't want to produce an entire data base of {maker, model, size, weight} why not {maker, model, weight} for a stated reference size?