How to use oil extraction pump properly?

[VAGCF]

Same as washer bottle fluid. On one service (pre-Yeti) I'd filled the washer bottle the night before and when I questioned the nice service lady why I was being charged she said they had emptied it and refilled it! Really!

[Tech1e]

23 hours ago, xman said:

 

 

Strange that VAG still fit drain plugs, millions of euros to be saved there. And fit dipstick tubes only 5 or 6 mm diameter, sometimes not straight meaning sucking oil, sludge and sundry through a 2 or 3mm id tube. Hopefully self cleaning.

 

 

They are a bit behind the times on that one.

 

A few manufacturers ive worked with no longer have drain bungs on some engines nor a dipsick. Just a larger bore service tube down to the bottom of the sump.

[Ootohere]

Anytime VW advance technology it fails because the purchase crap parts. 

They never advance technology like Twin Chargers and Diesel Hybrids because the discontinue as they are with diesels.

If they are beaten by others they try buying them, or as often is the case discontinue or cheat with engines.

 

They have failed for decades with Rubber for seals or belts, gaskets and water pumps, and engine components and consumables and electrics 

and now they are going to be big in EV's decades behind others.

 

One reason when getting a used car for changing a sump plug is to find out if some bodger before glued it in after stropping threads.

You are as well to find out sooner than later.

 

The PDF on sucking out oil is old and not an up to date one, but the point is look and think.

 

Maybe with older Ford Gallaxy & VW Group Sharan / Alhambra let sleeping dogs lay and leave the sump plug alone.

There were times back when as now when VW parts are of chocolate fireguard quality standards.

[xman]

O ye of little faith.

 

My 98 Alhambra 1.9 tdi had a sturdy steel sump and steel sump bolt with copper washer. Used the same plug for almost 20 years, changed the washer every 3rd or 4th time.

 

[Ootohere]

So you never got a car with the Sh!te ones that were good for a few oil changes and then might need a sump.

That is luck and good fortune, not something you knew in advance.

Hind sight is a wonderful thing.

Know what were good cars and worth having as keepers and which are lemons is 'Simply Clever'. 

 

If your car presently turns out to be the best a man or woman can buy from VW Group as a keeper then great, 

but it might be another 5 years before we know.

It is a lottery like that with VW Group.

Edited 18 October, 2018 by Offski

[Banjobach]

On 17/10/2018 at 02:00, KBPhoto said:

I’ve just done an oil and filter change on my Yeti using just an electric pump designed for the purpose.

 

Normally I use the pump then drain the leftover from the sump plug. Pressure of time and weather on this occasion necessitated using just the pump.

 

The engine capacity on my Yeti 170 is stated as being 4.9 litres. I only managed to get 3 out!

 

The oil was warm (c.40-50 degrees) and I used the dipstick tube and tried both the filter housing and oil filler to get more out. All to no avail.

 

Do people generally get more out than this? (Can’t believe dealers would only extract c.65% of the oil on a service change.)

 

What are the tricks to getting more oil out with a pump?

 

Or should I just accept that I can’t and drain via the sump plug every time?

 

Any helpful suggestions or questions about my technique appreciated.

 

I have removed the engine oil from my 1.8tsi Yeti via the dipstick tube with a hand operated suction pump and have found it extracts the amount stated for this vehicle. If I remember correctly the amount is 4.5 litres, whereas the amount listed by Skoda for this engine is 4.6 litres. I attribute the difference of 0.1litre to be that which is retained in the oil filter. Not having experience with any other Skoda vehicle I am unable to comment on why some have issues with extracting the full amount.

[Ootohere]

^^^ That means nothing seeing as you do not know the actual quantity of oil put into the engine at some point.

 

Even with a car at the right angle with the drain plug out and the oil hot / operating temperature you need to drain oil out of the removed filter and be measuring very accurate or weighing the oil. 

Even then there is not all the oil out so the best you get is near the same at different draining or sucking.

 

Many with a 1.8TSI thank their lucky stars no oil is being used to any great extent.

Edited 18 October, 2018 by Offski

[KBPhoto]

Apologies for not responding - been really busy with lots going on. Will be responding to appropriate comments just now.

[KBPhoto]

On 16/10/2018 at 19:05, xman said:

IIRC some engines have sump baffles that can stop the pipe getting down to the bottom.

 

Use the sump plug instead, that's what it's there for.

Any idea how far down the sump baffle would be on a diesel Yeti?

 

i think I had about 70-80 cm of pipe down the dipstick tube and could not get any further. Quite a bit longer than the actual dipstick.

[KBPhoto]

On 16/10/2018 at 19:16, Wino said:

Do you know what your engine code is? 

It may be as simple as the shape of the sump and position of dipstick needing the car to be parked in the best orientation on sloping ground to optimise extraction.  This came up recently on the mk1 Fabia forum about a 1.4 Tdi if memry serves, and it looked like in that case quite steeply nose-down would improve extraction quantity considerably. 

 

Dealerships should remove sump plug after all sucking has finished. It's in their instructions.

CEGA.

 

If there is anything specific you can tell from that, then please do let me know. I've had the car sat on flat ground whilst doing the oil changes.

[KBPhoto]

On 16/10/2018 at 20:49, skoda1982 said:

Why not wait for a better time and day and use the sump plug

With the weather we have been having in Scotland recently, the few good days I have had to go out with guests of my outdoor guiding business. This leaves me the 'not quite such a bad day' to work on the car.

 

It was already overdue an oil and filter change as September has been horrendous weather.

[KBPhoto]

On 17/10/2018 at 08:47, weasley said:

Couple of questions:

 

1. Out of interest, if you’re going to pull the sump plug out anyway, why use a pump?

2. For the OP, was the oil level at full before you started sucking?

1. I've found that it is less messy with the equipment and skills I have if I can pump out as much as possible first and then open the sump plug with an oil can under the car. If I could get more out with the pump, I'd probably not worry about using the sump plug on every oil change and look to do it every second one.

 

2. The oil level was around 40-50% of the way up between the max and moon markers on the dipstick. So not completely full, but certainly not over one litre down on the figures for a full engine. I've taken my figure from this website (https://oil-change.info/skoda-yeti-engine-oil-capacity/), but note now that I'd looked at the wrong line. It should have been 4.3 litres (so 1.3 litres down) - the same as in the user manual for this engine (CR 170). Allowing 0.1 litre for absorption of the oil filter and assuming the engine was down 0.2-0.3 litres (no reference to the volume the dipstick indicates is in the manual, so I've used info from another thread on here which may be roughly correct at hatched area represents 0.6 of a litre) I am still 'missing' about 0.9-1.0 litres of oil.

[KBPhoto]

On 17/10/2018 at 10:03, Tech1e said:

 

Not if the top down service method is applicable to that engine variant.

Is the 'top down' method suitable for a CEGA engine?

[Breezy_Pete]

19 minutes ago, KBPhoto said:

CEGA.

 

If there is anything specific you can tell from that, then please do let me know. I've had the car sat on flat ground whilst doing the oil changes.

 

Browsing a few images of the sump via ebay and the part number that I could find via your engine code, it looks like there's a significant 'pocket' at the rear of the sump that's deeper than the front half. If the engine also leans at a bit of a backward angle in the bay, this would probably explain where the missing oil was hiding.

Like the Fabia engine I referred to earlier, to extract most on this car, it looks like quite a steep nose-down attitude will maximise extraction via the dipstick tube.

 

 

 

 

Another good illustrative photo in this listing https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA-1-6-2-0-TDI-DIESEL-OIL-SUMP-WITH-SENSOR-2009-2013-03G103603AD/153153153874?hash=item23a8a3ab52:g:VpkAAOSwik9bgUVG:rk:4:pf:0

Edited 18 October, 2018 by Wino

[KBPhoto]

On 17/10/2018 at 10:52, Offski said:

here.

Drain off or suction off engine oil.doc

Thanks for the document. It implies that the suction should be from the oil filler cap as it says to remove this then says to suction off. No reference to the dipstick tube being used...

[KBPhoto]

7 hours ago, Banjobach said:

 

I have removed the engine oil from my 1.8tsi Yeti via the dipstick tube with a hand operated suction pump and have found it extracts the amount stated for this vehicle. If I remember correctly the amount is 4.5 litres, whereas the amount listed by Skoda for this engine is 4.6 litres. I attribute the difference of 0.1litre to be that which is retained in the oil filter. Not having experience with any other Skoda vehicle I am unable to comment on why some have issues with extracting the full amount.

Do you know what engine code your Yeti is? If it is the same as mine (CEGA) then obviously there is something that we are doing differently.

[Breezy_Pete]

3 minutes ago, KBPhoto said:

Thanks for the document. It implies that the suction should be from the oil filler cap as it says to remove this then says to suction off. No reference to the dipstick tube being used...

Not possible, too much in the way.

[KBPhoto]

4 minutes ago, Wino said:

 

Browsing a few images of the sump via ebay and the part number that I could find via your engine code, it looks like there's a significant 'pocket' at the rear of the sump that's deeper than the front half. If the engine also leans at a bit of a backward angle in the bay, this would probably explain where the missing oil was hiding.

Like the Fabia engine I referred to earlier, to extract most on this car, it looks like quite a steep nose-down attitude will maximise extraction via the dipstick tube.

 

 

 

That's a great bit of detective work - I wouldn't have known what I was looking for / at. That you.

 

Next oil change I shall try getting the rear of the vehicle up as high as I can. Would the usual home mechanic ramps be high enough do you think?

[KBPhoto]

1 minute ago, Wino said:

Not possible, too much in the way.

Did try going in this way, but got about 1 inch of pipe in and had trouble getting it back out. Thank fully it was warm (from the oil) and soft / pliable so did come out without any damage.

[Breezy_Pete]

Just now, KBPhoto said:

Would the usual home mechanic ramps be high enough do you think

Yes, I think so, 

[Ootohere]

You remove the filler cap because that is also what you do when removing the sump plug.

Saves car ramp up and down up and down up and down.

 

Saves Kwik Fit fitters as well jumping on and off the ramp, wiping a dirty finger on the wiped clean unchanged oil filter.

They need the time to search about looking for a washer that fits a sump plug, if they can be bothered to even do that. 

(only some obviously....)

Edited 18 October, 2018 by Offski

[KBPhoto]

5 minutes ago, Offski said:

You remove the filler cap because that is also what you do when removing the sump plug.

Saves car ramp up and down up and down up and down.

 

Saves Kwik Fit fitters as well jumping on and off the ramp, wiping a dirty finger on the wiped clean unchanged oil filter.

They need the time to search about looking for a washer that fits a sump plug, if they can be bothered to even do that. 

(only some obviously....)

I get that - just the instructions implied through the order of the instructions and through not stating it clearly that the oil filler cap should be used. Obviously removing the filler cap and dipstick would aid the oil in draining through the sump plug as it would allow air in and not be creating any form a a vacuum.

[Breezy_Pete]

There's an amazing instruction relating to drum brake shoe replacement that - to the literal reader - might imply that you should grease the new shoes all over their 'contact surfaces'.

Luckily mechanics get some general education about how cars work before they're let loose with manufacturers' documentation in workshops.

[Ootohere]

Luckily that is for technicians with a bit of a clue and not DIY'ers

You can see how some might make a mistake, maybe suck out the Coolant, Brake Fluid or Washer fluid.

[Llanigraham]

Is the suction tube a solid one or a flexible?
I have heard of people having problems using a flexible one, whereas a solid one follows the line of the dip stick.