Sorry.

  vagueness is why so many professionals get the level wrong and why owners need to have a check when getting cars or after services or have a clue about checking in the same way.

Assuming all engines are the same, or dipsticks is the cause of many errors. As is trusting warning lights, messages or sensors.

 

I am just saying that the assumption often made because people believe the cross hatch area is 1 litre can be wrong,

but in some engines that is correct.

You are the experimenter, i just check oil level and see where it shows on dipsticks and measures how much goes in or comes out.

 

Pan was a cook pot on  a kitchen electric cooker.  Jam Pot actually. Jam thermometer used.  Just as when jam making.

My Mum got it as a wedding present in the 1940's.

Scales the ones used for weighing berries and sugar usually.  They are in the cupboard beside the jam pan.

Put in 4 litres of engine oil, mark with a freezer marker the level and heat to 90*oC and see the level change in the oil from 15*oC to 90*oc.

Oil weighed at 15*oC and at 90*oC.

Done years ago to check VW Group figures.  Weight of oil.    Nothing that difficult.

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by Offski

I trust my long time mobile mechanic far more than the bods they employ at dealerships. I have seen this over-filling of oil business before at dealerships and of course I never get it with my man; he even asked what the quantity required was per the handbook last time I had a new car (just to be sure). Also of course he is around 50% cheaper than what the dealerships charge and always tells me if there is something that may need to be done in the near future. These guys are not that difficult to find - (word of mouth,etc.), and I have had two of them in the last 15 years or so.

I have been highly amused at the oil level discussion and the lengths some will go to to measure oil level to within half a millimeter, that is either a misprint, confusion over units (mms and cms) or a ****-take, I will have to use my vernier caliper and reading glasses next time, I may in the past have been able to estimate a dimension to within half a millimeter but not any more and I dont think my engine is going to be fussed over 0.5mm!!!!

 

Back to the replace disks & pads scam, I dont actually think its the mechanics but whoever raises the invoices, they have just created a standard line item that says "Front brake discs/pads 75% worn" and add it as a note to all invoices just as they add screenwash top up and consumables.

 

My chauffeur pal put his Octavia (the one he sold to me) into the main dealer for a service to keep up his warranty, he had replaced the brake pads himself the day before, can you guess what was written on the invoice?

 

They then had the cheek to ask him how many miles he had done since replacing the pads, he said "let me see, I walked home in 20 minutes after dropping the car off to you so about 2 miles!" then he dragged the muppet out to look at the shiny new pads.

Dealers simply do not like to waste money. They will not put half a litre extra in free of charge. Someone on here (ski?) say they fill with a metered device to the nearest ml.

 

So simple conclusion is, not fully sucked, rushed, and/ or just a quick polish of the oil filter housing. No sump plug. Standard fill from machine.

 

As Tesco used to say, every little counts.

 

For every customer that checks his oil level after a service there will be 50 that don't.

 

I noticed on handover of new car (stood in showroom but warm engine) that the oil level was only 2/3rd up the hatched area.

Master tech came and checked and said that's where he likes to see it, so I asked for a free 1 ltr top up bottle. What? Not possible, as master tech had said level was fine.

 

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by xman

I have found this discussion very interesting, there seems to be three main points, overfilling, how to check the sump level accurately and dealer rip off on brake discs.  I have noted that with few exceptions, the good old dipstick seems to have lasted out the years.  The only odd ones I found over my 58 years of driving, yes I know, were on a 1937 Austin 20 which had an oil float on the block above the sump and some 1990s Mercedes when they  tried to do away with a dipstick and rely on an electronic warning.  I see they have reverted to a dipstick.

 

I am not an engineer by trade, simply a motorist who tries to do his own work as far as possible and look after the current machine.  Yesterday, despite being told by the book that I didn't need a service until the second year, I drained and refilled my 2017 Octavia 1.5TSI sump and changed the filter.  When checking oil, I always try and dip it cold first thing while standing in the garage.

 

With regard to dealerships I am sorry to say that some of them certainly don't know what they are talking about and information from their headquarters can be similarly vague.  The best solution I find, is to speak to the service manager and if still unhappy, vote with your feet.  Once out of warranty, I have no hesitation in finding an Independent, who by that time will have gathered all the necessary tech specs on your model.

 

Hope I'm not banging on too much!

There a Technician or Mechanics or DIY'ers that fill from a container,  a 4 litre or 5 litre.

3.9 litre capacity and the 4 litres goes in.  5 litre container and 4.6 litre capacity and most in some left in the container, engine sits ticking over a while, 

engine stopped, leave a bit dip it. bonnet closed, car ready. 

 

People do seem keen on buying oil and putting in the car and then having others use that for the oil and filter changes.

There are mechanics and techs that will not want to use supplied oil.

Plenty snide oils about, just because a Mobile 1 Container looks right does not mean it is Mobil 1, or Castrol Edge or whatever.

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by Offski

2 hours ago, Offski said:

and see the level change in the oil from 15*oC to 90*oc

 

Do you not see that in the context of this discussion, this is the crucial piece of information. Is it a secret? You and Nidza seem to have the opposite view on whether the level is higher when cold or hot dipped, so surely actual data on which it is would be useful?

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

level discussion and the lengths some will go to to measure oil level to within half a millimeter, that is either a misprint, confusion over units (mms and cms) or a ****-take, I will have to use my vernier caliper and reading glasses next time, I may in the past have been able to estimate a dimension to within half a millimeter but not any more and I dont think my engine is going to be fussed over 0.5mm!!!!

 

That's exactly my point! If it does actually only change by the odd half millimetre (no misprint) then worrying about what conditions you measure the level at is pointless.

Simply follow the manual...

 

Check the oil under the following conditions and refill.

 

The vehicle is standing on a horizontal surface.

The engine operating temperature is reached.

The engine is turned off.

 

Checking the level ›

 

Wait a few minutes until the engine oil flows back into the oil trough. ›

 

Remove the dipstick and wipe with a clean cloth. ›

 

Push the dipstick to the stop and pull out again. ›

 

Read the oil level and push in the dipstick.

The level is higher when cold and all oil is back in the sump.

While oil is around the engine warm or hot it has not all drained.  Simple really.

 

Point is that the oil lubricating and cooling is the amount required when the engine is running.

Low oil Pressure Red Oil can light might show as you corner and there is a Low Oil Pressure light, and yet the Yellow Low Oil Light might not have shown and might not for quite a few miles if not doing much cornering or spirited driving.

 

Where those with Euro 5 TSI's with excessive oil use were being messed about by Skoda & VW Group the odd mm checked was rather important, 

and knowing where the correct quantity of oil showed at Cold checks or at Operating Temperatures.

It was Official Dealers Staff putting cars / engines out with wrong quantities of oil, 

and with 3.6 litre capacity and as much as 1.5 litre low and no Warning by light or message it is best to know how the oil shows on the dipstick.

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by Offski

1 minute ago, Offski said:

The level is higher when cold and all oil is back in the sump.

By half a millimetre or less according to my experiment. You still won't tell us what happened in your pan?!

No not by half a millimetter,  that is the problem, you are others that make silly statements.

 

2-3 millimeter on a 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136kW engine with 3.6 litres in, or 3.9 litres in.

& if the Technician as some did put in 4.2 litres then that has the cold level up on the orange plastic and the hot showing on the flat above the crosshatch.

 

Anyone with any engine can go out now, dip cold and dip sometime hot, and say what engine they have and what oil capacity of engine.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/333567-oil-overfilled-on-service-at-dealership

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/239963-over-topping-with-oil

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/243966-vrs-dealer-overfilled-oil

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/275077-fabia-vrs-engine-oil-top-up

 

 

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by Offski

From 10 seconds after shutdown the oil level in my car was at 54mm, where it stayed for about the next 2 and a half minutes, then jumping a half millimetre for the next four minutes or so, then another massive half millimetre hike from about 7mins onwards, levelling off at somewhere between +1 and +1.5mm from the 54mm.

From cold it was, at first 56mm, so half a mm more than the highest level seen hot/warm.  Totally insignificant.

What's silly about understanding the real variability (or absence of)?

 

 

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by Wino

OK, are any of the people who're neeping on about expansion with temperature prepared to put a figure on the percentage by which a brand name, say, 505.01 spec, oil expands from 10C to 100C?

@Wino So what engine, what oil capacity?

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by Offski

What level expansion in your fecking saucepan?

 

Mine's  BBY engine, not sure of the exact 'book' capacity, 3. something. I tend to find they're often inaccurate.

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by Wino

I tend to find you could run it on Crisp 'n Dry.  Make no difference. 

 

Glad i had a look at the dirty diesel outside, it showed some oil cold and i took it around the block and right down the bottom of the dipstick.

1.5 litre in and i will look when cold. 2.0 TDI  & Dealership put in 4.3 litres a couple of thousand miles ago.

 

Edited 25 October, 20187 yr by Offski

I thought you of all people would have kept a better eye on your motors.

Mine and others get all the attention, only things lease and hire get are tyre pressures, washer fluid and fuel. 

Gave up caring about them, break down assistance and a nice courtesy car.  If VW Group do not care why should i?

Self respect?

No more 'Das Auto'.   Just honesty. 

Read the owners manual, understand how they work and look after your keepers.

  If 'Factory trained technicians' can not be bothered all you can do is go with the flow and chill.   

If Euro 6 TDI / SCRs are going to drink oil and sip Diesel & AdBlue but drive OK that is fine by me.

4 minutes ago, Offski said:

all you can do is go with the flow and chill

Sounds lazy and defeatist to me, but each to their own.

Pi55 off,  lease diesels are for transport / covering miles.   I have loved and cherished cars for decades, & have keepers.

1 minute ago, Offski said:

Pi55 off

Ok, see you tomorrow with some more real data.

14 minutes ago, Wino said:

Ok, see you tomorrow with some more real data.

I will be disappointed if I return here tomorrow there are no pictures of oil in saucepans