Maybe they didn't change the oil filter, could account for the extra half litre.

 

Whole service, what was done, what wasn't is called into question.

58 minutes ago, romulus said:

That's my feeling too. After I had left the car at the garage for the service, they phoned me at home and tried the hard sell. Apart from the new discs, they tried to convince me that I needed an air con refresh. And that's after they had already persuaded me to pay extra for an oil and fuel system flush.

 

Wow, this dealer is really chalking up the 'screw the customer for all we can' award of the week.

 

1) Overfilling the oil, requiring a revisit, no offer of a goodwill gesture by way of an apology.

2) The age-old "your brakes are knackered mate" trick. Who scrimps on brakes? An easy money-maker.

3) Engine and fuel system flush? From a franchised Skoda retailer. You might want to ask them what they flushed the engine with, considering Skoda UK specifically tell you via the owners manual not to use any type of oil or fuel additives, without adversely affecting your warranty.

 

A prime example of a franchised main dealer out to ruin it for everyone. Dig in and make sure Skoda UK know how annoyed you are and ask them what they're going to do about it.

1 hour ago, romulus said:

That's my feeling too. After I had left the car at the garage for the service, they phoned me at home and tried the hard sell. Apart from the new discs, they tried to convince me that I needed an air con refresh. And that's after they had already persuaded me to pay extra for an oil and fuel system flush.

So this dealer over filled your oil, misled you on the brake discs (whixh i agree look absolutely fine) and on top of that told you a one year old car needed an oil and fuel system flush? And an aircon refresh? After 9k miles?

 

Someone seriously needs to have a word with these cowboys. Please take your car to somewhere more reputable these people dont deserve customers let alone repeat ones.

 

They also need named so they can be avoided. Absolutely disgusting.

1 minute ago, silver1011 said:

 

3) Engine and fuel system flush? From a franchised Skoda retailer. You might want to ask them what they flushed the engine with, considering Skoda UK specifically tell you via the owners manual not to use any type of oil or fuel additives, without adversely affecting your warranty.

 

 

I think with this dealer you will be fine, I don't think an imaginary engine flush will do the engine any harm 

A 1 year old car with 9000ish miles on the clock is the easiest most straightforward service.

These engines are complex but very easy to service. Nothing should be worn out. 

Engine flushes and fuel additives are bulls**t, high profit cons.

 

Edited 22 October, 20187 yr by classic

1 hour ago, Wino said:

 

 

2 hours ago, romulus said:

 

 

2 hours ago, edbostan said:

Look like my Roomster discs. The rear discs are not as shiny as the front as the rear does not take the full braking. Dealers try it on as when I picked up my Roomster after its 3rd service they commented on the lip on the discs. I commented that a lip was starting to form after 2500 miles. Work at the dealers may be in short supply.

It seems like this is routine practise when they get you car in for service so if back discs look like they really need changed I would get that done at independent beforehand and not a word about it. 

As others have said, sounds like a terrible dealer. Who is it and where?

11 hours ago, ExSEAT said:

So this dealer over filled your oil, misled you on the brake discs (whixh i agree look absolutely fine) and on top of that told you a one year old car needed an oil and fuel system flush? And an aircon refresh? After 9k miles?

 

Someone seriously needs to have a word with these cowboys. Please take your car to somewhere more reputable these people dont deserve customers let alone repeat ones.

 

They also need named so they can be avoided. Absolutely disgusting.

I've been using this franchised dealer for 4 years. So far I've not had any problems with them. Also, they're within walking distance of where I live. I had previously used Faintree Skoda in Telford. They were very good but they're over 20 miles away and so taking it there for a service would mean two 50 mile round trips.

 

As I've had a good relationship with them and, until this week, have been satisfied with the service they've provided, I'd rather not disclose the name of the dealer until I've had chance to discuss the various issues (brake discs, oil and fuel system flush and overfilling the sump) with Skoda UK and given both parties the chance to offer a satisfactory resolution.

 

To be fair to the dealer, they admitted their mistake in overfilling the sump, rectified it straight away and apologised.

11 hours ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

I think with this dealer you will be fine, I don't think an imaginary engine flush will do the engine any harm 

I find it difficult to believe that a franchised dealer would flush the sump and fuel system if it harmed the engine. Of course, whether it was necessary or desirable is another matter and is something I'm going to take up with Skoda UK.

It's been covered before. Unscrupulous Skoda dealers should not be, but clearly are, using engine flush. It's an easy money earner, just the same as playing the 'safety' factor with the brakes. At best it's dishonest, at worst it's theft.

 

The engine flush is an additive that's added to the old oil. The engine is run, and it is all then removed (including supposedly any contaminants). The engine is then refilled with fresh oil. It's snake oil. I'd be surprised if they actually did it to be honest, much like those dealers that charge you to top up your screen wash, when you knew it was already full.

 

Quite what ended up in your engine remains a mystery, or what's in it now quite frankly. I think I'd be insisting on them servicing the car again, including a full oil and filter change.

 

Either they haven't drained the old oil properly, or they've over-filled it with fresh oil. Both are bad, but I'd prefer the latter, especially if the former still had the engine flush in it whilst you've been driving around.

 

Good luck, but I fear that between the backside-covering tactics of the dealer combined with Skoda UK's inability to properly police their own dealer network, you'll not get the truth.

 

Use of Petrol Additives:

 

 

Use of Diesel Additives:

 

 

Use of Engine Oil Additives:

 

 

Edited 23 October, 20187 yr by silver1011

17 hours ago, romulus said:

I always check the oil about 5 minutes after switching off the engine and then again when the engine is cold. The latter reading is always slightly higher

 

Not entirely correct. 

 

Engine oil has a feature to expand on heat, and correct to check is when the oil settles properly, but still warm. If you wait to be on the air temperature, entirely cooled down, it will shrink a bit.

 

For TSI / TDI correct level will be measured approx 15 minutes after engine shut down on oil work temperature (~100C). 

 

I keep mine above 1/2, better in upper 2/3, but not topped to the max to avoid mistake due to issue mentioned above or uneven surface.

Not rocket science.

 

Gets lost in translation from German to Czech, to Spanish to English, US English and other languages.

'Operating temperature',  Normal Operating Temperature, Hot, Warm etc.  

@ Operating Temperature or Normal Operating Temperature is correct, (to know the cold dip level as well is 'Simply Clever' then you can compare.)

only 1.2 44kW show with VW Group for checking when Cold.

Skoda sometimes say 'Warm',  which is why so many cars serviced and left ticking over 5 minutes show wrongly the level.

 

Engine oil does not expand as matters to any difference when dipping a TDI / TSI VW Engine..  (stone cold in the sump the level is at its highest, 

all drained back, or almost all.)

 When having run, got up to temperature It does go into the journals, filter / filter housing if up high, around the engine and might not be in the sump for a good while.

Even at Normal Operating Temperature.

Put it in a pan at 0 or even 15*oC and heat it up to 90-100*oC and see if the level rises.

 

Approx 15 minutes is not correct,  Skoda even says 'A few minutes',   not 2, 3, or 4,  but not 15.  Check when fueling the car. That is not 15 minutes.

 

 

 

Edited 23 October, 20187 yr by Offski

11 hours ago, romulus said:

I've been using this franchised dealer for 4 years. So far I've not had any problems with them. Also, they're within walking distance of where I live. I had previously used Faintree Skoda in Telford. They were very good but they're over 20 miles away and so taking it there for a service would mean two 50 mile round trips.

 

As I've had a good relationship with them and, until this week, have been satisfied with the service they've provided, I'd rather not disclose the name of the dealer until I've had chance to discuss the various issues (brake discs, oil and fuel system flush and overfilling the sump) with Skoda UK and given both parties the chance to offer a satisfactory resolution.

 

To be fair to the dealer, they admitted their mistake in overfilling the sump, rectified it straight away and apologised.

I understand they are convenient. I dont mean to be over dramatic or offend you with my opinion but I can only be honest. This enterprise has repaid your 4 years of loyalty by pulling your pants down. You have been absolutely misled, mistreated and squeezed by this dealer. They will continue to do so to you until you vote with your feet. They will continue to do it to others too. They dont deserve your custom, they dont deserve anyone elses custom for that matter either. Ive been driving for 20 years, vehicles ranging from brand new to 18 year old cars, Ive never replaced brake discs due to corrosion, Ive never had an engine flush and Ive never had an air con service. These people are telling you that your one year old car needs all these things after less than average use over 12 months.

 

I drive past my old Seat dealer to get to my skoda dealer. Its further out of my way true, but they know they cant take the **** out of me with made up service items and treat me with respect.

 

They rely on your fears. My manager at work had his brakes done on his RS4 last summer, first time needed on his 35k mile 2014 Audi RS4. Hes just had a warning from the service that 12k miles later he is 50% towards needing new discs somehow. Lets not forget it was a £2.3k stabdard cost service item. Theres bad dealers in all networks and they deserve to go bust. 

 

I hope you get some good answers but id question how you could trust these monkeys with your car or money ever again. Each to their own. 

On 22/10/2018 at 22:01, ScoutCJB said:

Makes me question whether they actually just hadn't fully drained the oil in the first place and just put in 4.6 litres as that's what it should be.  Unacceptable either way as it should have been checked afterwards.

 

It is 4.6l from dry and around 4 to 4.2 for a service.

the person doing it forgot about the oil that is still locked up in the engine after a drain.

 

Also Skoda say don’t use additives, so I would be very interested to know what they used to flush it with. Especially if you have a dpf.

 

Personally I would want want a drain, new oil and filter and the job doing right.

 

As for cost, they charged you to put in the litre they threw out. I would want at least that back.

 

The only cars I have flushed are ones which were old school dervs with a 5000 mile change interval and a couple that were purchased with no service history cheap. They were a flush, clean cheap oil, run for up to 1000 miles, then dump it and do it again. This was also a one off to clean out dirty mistreated oil not a regular service item.

Edited 24 October, 20187 yr by cheezemonkhai

18 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

 

It is 4.6l from dry and around 4 to 4.2 for a service.

the person doing it forgot about the oil that is still locked up in the engine after a drain.

 

Very much doubt that. Dealers never need to know dry fill. Fairly sure all workshop instructions and wallcharts will show only service fill.

Worksheets should be computer generated from registration number.

 

Either didn't drain (suck) it all out, didn't change oil filter, or looked up wrong engine on a wallchart or a clueless apprentice.

 

In any case, wouldn't it be a good practice to recheck before hand over, maybe even the workshop manager could actually check everything over before signing off.

 

23 hours ago, Offski said:

Engine oil does not expand as matters to any difference when dipping a TDI / TSI VW Engine..  (stone cold in the sump the level is at its highest, 

all drained back, or almost all.)

 

You can check for yourself that oil expands quite noticeably. 

 

Immediately after engine switch off you will see less on the dipstick. 

After ~15 minutes you will see the highest level on the dipstick.

If you check in the morning, especially during the winter, you will see lowest level on the stick.

 

I've found a table of coefficients and a calculator:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/volumetric-temperature-expansion-d_315.html

 

5 liters oil on 10 C will expand to 5,3325 liters at 105 C, which is the usual oil temperature of TSI (105-110C).

 

So, we will see a difference of 1/3 of the level on the dipstick. Quite a bit, isn't it?

I have checked hundreds of TSI / TDI and other engines with the correct quantity of oil in.

Cold in the morning has the highest level on the dip stick.  

It is as simple as fact.

 

Getting different reading Warm, Hot, very hot, after a few minutes or many minutes is why you want to know where the oil is Cold before driving then after driving and the car with the oil at Operating Temperature and how ever you do that.

Then you know.

 

If you get a Low Oil Level light or warning or Low Oil Pressure and stop and open the bonnet for 30 seconds the Light / Warning goes out, 

maybe for as far as 100 km.  

 

The reason for Weighing Oil for checks and knowing it is 856g @ 15*oC is because the change in volume is so little, 

especially with say just 2.8 litres or 3.2 or 3.6 litres of different viscosity and specs.

90*oC change from 15*oC.

 

Skoda Techs report error is.  They seem to think 1 litre of engine oil weighs the same as 1 litre of H20....

Edited 24 October, 20187 yr by Offski

Someone should calculate how much the sump expands by at operating temperature.

@Wino,

 

there IS a calculation and a table in my previous post. By their table it is 1/3 of the dipstick in the oil volume between. By my findings it was about 1/4 of the range. Different oils, different expansion coefficient, but there IS a significant change of volume in any of the liquids and all materials. Engine oil is no exception.

 

@Offski, weight and volume are very different things here. Don't mix up, please.

 

Bottomline, whatever you choose to believe, check your oil level in the same (oil temperature) conditions, otherwise you might get wrong conclusion how much oil your engine consumes. 

I can't see a calculation for the increase in size of the container there?

nidxa,

VW Group dipsticks are crap.   Simple really. 

Not all cars even have the correct dipstick on occasions as one gets replaced.

 

There are engines with the same sumps and different oil capacities that have the same dipstick, and the VW / Skoda diagram on 'A', 'B' & 'C' areas are crap, 

and i know where 3.6, 3.9 & 4.2 litre shows on 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kW Dual Charge Engines at different temps and times after stopping and with different oil filters.

I have seen many many overfilled at Services and at top ups.   Got the pictures and the amount of oil drained weights as well.

 

I have checked replacement engines that have just left Skoda Main Dealers after a Warranty paid near £5,000 an the oil was overfilled.

Others have left services with 3.6, 3.9 or 4.2 litres of oil in.

*I have check cars on forecourts or at auctions with the oil cold near or at the top orange marker.*

 

I put 4 litres in my own Twincharger engines & recommend others to use 3.9 litres rather than 3.6 litres & 5w 40 FS rather than 5w30 FS LL.

But then that is from experience.

Edited 24 October, 20187 yr by Offski

Late, but I agree that those discs are fine.

 

Oh and perhaps @nidza could tell us how much oil drains back out of the head in an hour?

I've done it before, some time ago, but I'll hook up VCDS when I get home, and get some oil level versus temperature versus time data on my car as it cools from operating temp.

I'll maybe hook up a battery charger so I can leave the ignition on for a >15 minute timeframe without voltage changes (so VCDS can keep logging). 

 

I can work it the other way round in the morning from stone cold, without moving the car inbetween.

I remember a thread from a few years back that you posted with results.

Might still be in the Fabia Mk2 section.

46 minutes ago, Offski said:

nidxa,

VW Group dipsticks are crap.   Simple really. 

 

 

Better than on my ex Alfa. 

 

Stick is good enough to show different oil levels under various circumstances. 

 

I suppose stick shouldn't show ever more then MAX? Is this right? --> If so, clearly determines that measure takes place at the point of time when the volume of the oil is maximal and settlement of the oil is finished. This is my magic 15 minutes after good long ride and warm up.

 

 @KenONeill,  irrelevant for the subject.

 

Some other fluid, but the point is clear:

 

Edited 24 October, 20187 yr by nidza