?

I see the detail in the article, cars charged and left 15 hours and charged before the test.

 

Is there any mention of the ambient temp at the time of the test?  There might be but not seeing it as i scroll on the phone.

 

Fastening with a seat belt 100 kg bag in each seat and 100 kg in the boot should be a requirement of any range test of EV's or ICE vehicles.

Then you might know just how bad it can get for using up 'power'.

 

PS

in the article @lol-lollinked they managed to include from the VW group very different models from Porsche, VW, Audi & Skoda yet omitted anything from what was the PSA Group which all run the same Batteries & Motors. 50kwH (45  usable) and 100kw motors.

So that could of been a Peugeot, Vauxhall, DS, Citroen EV Small size or Crossover size or even MPV.  About 10 versions to have chosen from.

Edited 30 July, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

4 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

?

I see the detail in the article, cars charged and left 15 hours and charged before the test.

 

Is there any mention of the ambient temp at the time of the test?  There might be but not seeing it as i scroll on the phone.

 

Fastening with a seat belt 100 kg bag in each seat and 100 kg in the boot should be a requirement of any range test of EV's or ICE vehicles.

Then you might know just how bad it can get for using up 'power'.

 

PS

in the article @lol-lollinked they managed to include from the VW group very different models from Porsche, VW, Audi & Skoda yet omitted anything from what was the PSA Group which all run the same Batteries & Motors. 50kwH (45  usable) and 100kw motors.

So that could of been a Peugeot, Vauxhall, DS, Citroen EV Small size or Crossover size or even MPV.  About 10 versions to have chosen from.

 

No real details of test parameters and many EVs I would expect to see if the PSA ones and Zoe.  Zoe has reportedly oft got very close to its 249 miles and some drivers have exceeded 300 miles and even 475 miles on a hyper mile exercise https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2021/06/14/renault-zoe-achieves-475-miles-on-a-single-charge .

 

PSA cars seem to be getting close to 200 miles in non motorway conditions but when they do blast it on the motorway I have heard some reports saving the energy consumption can be four times what the range predictor is showing ie give it a blast and one is losing 4 miles for every mile travelled giving it beans on the motorway.

 

Trying to find out how far someone has gone on a MG5 but I see someone did over 500 kms in a MG S, in India ! 

 https://www.autocarindia.com/car-news/autocar-india-sets-a-record-covers-563km-in-mgs-zs-ev-on-one-charge-416297    

 

Using one's God given grey matter is not something car journalist seem to demonstrate going more for the sensational headlines in what ever direction.  

New long range MG5 still looking like my next car at the moment.

Take that 200 miles from PSA vehicles with a huge pinch of salt if they are doing more than 60 mph.  The lowest and lightest 2 models are not getting that and 2008 or Mokka certainly are not.  I have driven them and there are quite a few owners with 2008 in charging regularly at the local to me hub.  Plenty totally confused by Sport, normal and ECO and driving to get range in ECO and B. They are slugs if you use them that way.   Some charging on AC because the Salespeople told them Rapid charging would kill the batteries.     It is sad the rubbish customers are getting told at Dealerships, or not told.

 

If a driver is getting 4 miles per kWh of a 45Kw usable battery then that is 180 mile.

3.5 miles kWh is more likely, so 157.5 miles.

 

Then that is the 45kWh usable at 100% and run to empty, so not starting maybe with 98% where you still get regeneration and not going lower than 10% before getting to a charger.    Like driving on real roads where the charging 20%-80% might suit some but not all trips, and the time to charge to 100% can be rather long and something done while you are not waiting around.

Edited 30 July, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

46 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

Take that 200 miles from PSA vehicles with a huge pinch of salt if they are doing more than 60 mph.  The lowest and lightest 2 models are not getting that and 2008 or Mokka certainly are not.  I have driven them and there are quite a few owners with 2008 in charging regularly at the local to me hub.  Plenty totally confused by Sport, normal and ECO and driving to get range in ECO and B. They are slugs if you use them that way.   Some charging on AC because the Salespeople told them Rapid charging would kill the batteries.     It is sad the rubbish customers are getting told at Dealerships, or not told.

 

 

LIthium batteries are fantastic but they still need to obey the laws of physics and as Elon Musk warns when you put a Tesla in to Ludicrous mode you cannot start doing a bunch of 0-60 in two seconds or near 9 second standing quarters, there is a price to pay on the longevity of the equipment.

 

Charging at a steady not too high rate is clearly sensible, the occasion charging at the highest level not too much of a problem if only occasional and let us hope the engineers have done their homework and the internal systems of the car kick in and throttle the incoming power if the internal temperatures get too high etc.

 

Who do we trust ?  Home charging sounds the continued best option.  Just had the British Gas guy round and even he measured the house's electricity supply "quality", presumably actual voltage as UK is not great at getting the 3 phase arms balanced OK all the time, much less 3 phase per house than many countries.   

 

I worry about the Chinese being completely honest with the MG but then VAG have not exactly got a good track record of honesty.  Eyes open, a smidge of distrust in manufacturers and journalist and preferring honestly spoken thoughtful output from people like you George, cheers.

 

Home charging is only useful if you are based around home and not going away and trying to get back further than the range of your vehicles.

 

EV van drivers know that a passenger and tools / equipment can kill the range.

I am interested in how the Commercials / Taxi EV's with 6 people in and a trailer with their luggage and golf gear will get on as 'Airport Transport'. 

1 hour ago, e-Roottoot said:

Home charging is only useful if you are based around home and not going away and trying to get back further than the range of your vehicles.

 

EV van drivers know that a passenger and tools / equipment can kill the range.

I am interested in how the Commercials / Taxi EV's with 6 people in and a trailer with their luggage and golf gear will get on as 'Airport Transport'. 

 

We (Bollore) do tech at the top end of the market ie big buses, which have capacity and very fast charging which is detailed in this article here.  So we are using LIthium MP batteries ie solid state, though kept quite warm, but charge time is a few minutes rather than measured in half hours etc.....  The last 10 % is a nightmare and I think several system, like petrol fuel tank gauge, do not even measure/gauge it properly......   Mercedes pay us patents, not sure why VW is also mentioned in the graph, just there take on solid state against normal lithium in the light ellipse shaped curve.  Normal lithium start to reduce charging rate from 50%-ish.  

 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1132780_solid-state-batteries-are-already-being-installed-in-city-buses-update

 

These Mercedes-Benz eCitaro buses are offered directly by Mercedes-Benz and have 441 kwh of solid-state LMP cells supplied by France’s Blue Solutions, part of Bolloré—and, seemingly, an evolution of the cells that Bolloré tested in car-sharing vehicles back in 2015. 

 

 

Blue Solutions LMP solid-state tech

  

Edited 30 July, 20214 yr by lol-lol

@lol-lol

How did the typo come to be with the Porsche?

 

DOH,  i see now it is the Mazda.  with the 30.... Bl00dy hell!

Edited 30 July, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57352972

Lots of use of off peak electricity & busses not running on diesel means lots less diesel tankers moving diesel about UK roads to bus depots.

 

British built electric buses is something the Government really should get behind as something to aid job creation and training opportunities.

Lots and lots of batteries needed to have buses UK wide all being electric as other buses are taken off the road.

There are still some right old smokey buses running about.

BP Pulse public public charger prices in UK. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, roottoot said:

BP Pulse public public charger prices in UK. 

 

 

 

Membership is £7.85 a month I gather.  

 

So would need weekly rather than month use to make it worth while perhaps. 

 

 

http://bppulse.co.uk/charging-on-the-go

 

I had Free Membership for 6 months with BP Polar that came with getting a Vauxhall and an account and used it a few times to use 3 pin plugs at ASDA to charge an E-Bike, then it went unused otherwise as i had not got the car.

When i tried to get into the account i could not and i could not start a new one with BP Pulse as the e-mail was already used.

After trying Customer Services a few times by phone and e-mail i gave up trying.

 

My latest account info arrived from Charge Place Scotland.  £0.00  to pay.

Free charging is nice while still available.

 

644.65 kWh if getting 3 miles per kWh = over 1,900 miles without paying for fuel. 

 

Edited 19 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59347468

 

CPS or actually SWARCO who are running Charge Place Scotland yet again coc-k things up. 

 Someone else will be to blame as it is always to do with before they took over, even though they were not uninvolved over the past years.

 

I just got an email from BP Pulse about them unfortunately having to increase prices to charge.   I will link when home and off the charger presently on. 

 

 

Edited 24 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

Rory has a very good home tariff if he pays only 14 pence a kWh when not using off peak.

 

 

 

too bloody true! I said as much in the comments about an hour ago  Christ, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank on that deal.

I am 18 pence until the middle of January and then the 20 pence until the next time the Cap rises.

I can not find any better tariff than sticking with Eon now and taking what ever comes. 

I was on a tracker tariff with Octopus (called Tracker!) which was good last year and early part of 2021. It started going up shortly after the ID.4 arrived and I bailed onto a fixed rate in August before things got really bad. I'm on 23p (inc vat) now and that looks good compared to what else is out there. Its fixed for 2 years, so cannot get any worse. If prices improve, I'll be able to swap away from it. With current fuel prices I'm still doing OK compared to an ICE vehicle but I'm not saving like Rory says I will!  

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

I was on a tracker tariff with Octopus (called Tracker!) which was good last year and early part of 2021. It started going up shortly after the ID.4 arrived and I bailed onto a fixed rate in August before things got really bad. I'm on 23p (inc vat) now and that looks good compared to what else is out there. Its fixed for 2 years, so cannot get any worse. If prices improve, I'll be able to swap away from it. With current fuel prices I'm still doing OK compared to an ICE vehicle but I'm not saving like Rory says I will!  

 

I am currently paying 14.9p plus VAT ie 15.65 for normal electricity and 4.76p plus VAT for 0030 to 0430 electricity ie 5p per kwh.

Gas is 3.64 p per kwh. 

 

This is with Octopus GO due to the EV charging during the late night period and the Flexible Octopus for gas. 

 

Wondering if I should go fixed for gas but Martin Lewis says do not change but also that April could at 40% rise in rates.   

  

My gas heating can go off again come spring time for a few months.

By the daily charge on electric and gas will go in January to around 27 pence a day  Electric and 26 gas from the current 7 pence for each. 

The gas rises from the 3 pence a kWh to over 4 pence.

 

2022/2023  winters energy costs are going to be the real shocker.

 

9 hours ago, roottoot said:

My gas heating can go off again come spring time for a few months.

By the daily charge on electric and gas will go in January to around 27 pence a day  Electric and 26 gas from the current 7 pence for each. 

The gas rises from the 3 pence a kWh to over 4 pence.

 

2022/2023  winters energy costs are going to be the real shocker.

 

 

Martin Lewis was on the radio this afternoon and was saying gas could go up another 40% in April 2022.   Need to convert water heating for hot water tank to lecky I reckon.

 

Indeed when the winter of 2022/23 hits, in combination with supressed wages due to the NI hits and record personal taxation level will leave millions with much less disposal, or even overstretched income and outgoings may lead to people selling their homes as they can no longer afford to live there.     

Edited 9 December, 20214 yr by lol-lol

The video calculations are not quite right. A 9 years old Leaf cannot hold 24 kWh charge, I'd estimate my car to hold 18-19 kWh absolute maximum. Even new, it won't hold 24 kWh, that was the gross capacity.

 

Another point, public EV charging is always cheaper at slower speed. Eg, outside a friend's central London flat, there was a Polar 50kW rapid and a Ubitricity lamp post charger. Only a foul would solely use the rapid charger to power their car.

 

But main point of video stands, check electricity rate, solely use rapid charging can wipe out fuel savings.

 

 

I'm on 13p for E7 off peak and 23p for other times with Bulb variable tariff. My smart meter was installed a few months ago and I've been offered their EV tariff of 4 hour 5.5p and 24p other times. I plan to sign up after Christmas when WFH guideline lifts. But now that Bulb is disappearing and I have my gen2 smart meter, I want to switch to Octupus.

14 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

I am currently paying 14.9p plus VAT ie 15.65 for normal electricity and 4.76p plus VAT for 0030 to 0430 electricity ie 5p per kwh.

Gas is 3.64 p per kwh. 

 

This is with Octopus GO due to the EV charging during the late night period and the Flexible Octopus for gas. 

 

Wondering if I should go fixed for gas but Martin Lewis says do not change but also that April could at 40% rise in rates.   

  

You are on the good rate which you got on prior to summer 2021, I assume - well done. For my area, Go is now 25.9p peak but still 5p off peak. Octopus are not taking on new customers right now though and if already with them advise to stick on the tariff you have.

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

You are on the good rate which you got on prior to summer 2021, I assume - well done. For my area, Go is now 25.9p peak but still 5p off peak. Octopus are not taking on new customers right now though and if already with them advise to stick on the tariff you have.

 

Actually only took it out in early September when I got the Zoe.  So later summer or early autumn I suppose.

Octopus where offering me £75 to come back with them at that time.  It would have cost me £50 to leave Eon and I decided to stick.   An error probably as it turns out but I am still not home charging so that is not a loss.  If I had been with octopus in the past 11 months I would have been much more than £25 worse off.    Looking at chargers under construction on routes off the motorway between Edinburgh and Glasgow and there are a few.  Also new ones have appeared on Plug share that I never knew about.  They do not show on Zap/map.  

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 December, 20214 yr by roottoot