Piston Heads and Valves

[vredesbyrd93]

Hi all.

I have a 2009 Superb II 2.0TDI DSG. Apparently had issues with Timing belt. Got it reset at the Service center amd they told me to get it replaced within a month. 20km away right from there, engine lost power and won't start. Towed back to the center. Now they say Piston heads and Valved are damaged and need replacing. Any idea how a Timing belt could cause this? Besides, I'm from India, so anybody have a clue on repair estimates if possible? Also I don't have access to independent euro garages near me.

Thanks

Edited 19 November, 2018 by vredesbyrd93
Spelling mistake

[TheRobinK]

3 hours ago, vredesbyrd93 said:

Any idea how a Timing belt could cause this?

 

If the timing belt fails - it is a very bad thing.  When the belt goes or is loose, pistons and valves collide and get bent/damaged. 

 

Have a look here for a straight forward description:  Bent Valves and Other Common Issues After a Timing Belt Fails

 

You'll need someone from your country to advise on the repair cost. It will not be cheap if they are correct about the damage.

[chimaera]

3 hours ago, vredesbyrd93 said:

Hi all.

I have a 2009 Superb II 2.0TDI DSG. Apparently had issues with Timing belt. Got it reset at the Service center amd they told me to get it replaced within a month. 20km away right from there, engine lost power and won't start. Towed back to the center. Now they say Piston heads and Valved are damaged and need replacing. Any idea how a Timing belt could cause this? Besides, I'm from India, so anybody have a clue on repair estimates if possible? Also I don't have access to independent euro garages near me.

Thanks

Like @TheRobinK says, if the timing belt fails, you're going to have a lot of damage to the head. Diesel engines are interference type which means that the path of the pistons overlaps the path of the valves: the timing belt keeps everything synchronised so the moving parts stay out of each other's way.

 

If they had just done a job on the timing belt, then I would be asking them to cover the cost of the repair. The easiest repair here is probably to source a used engine and replace the whole engine: it will probably cost a bit more on parts but a swap should be fairly straightforward. If the garage are paying for it, it won't matter to you anyway.

 

The downside here is that if they have managed to do a bad job on the timing belt, it may be better not to have them do any further work on your car.

[vredesbyrd93]

Thank you for your replies. Actually, I'm headed off to the Service Center (60Km away) tomorrow morning to have a look at what they've managed to dig up. I'll keep the advice in mind. Besides, it would be nearly impossible to get a used engine here in India.

[vredesbyrd93]

So the dealer gave me a quote of a full rebuild at GBP 6,000 (INR 5,50,000) without even inspecting the engine. They said I did not provide them with an approval to inspect the engine but I did 5 days back. I think I'm in a mess. Will never buy a Skoda in India ever again.

[silver1011]

If you didn't give them permission to inspect the engine then how were they able to adjust the belt and offer their recommendation on a new belt?

 

"Got it reset at the service centre and they told me to get it replaced within a month."

 

Going back a couple of steps, you also mentioned "apparently had issues with timing belt". Was this whilst you've owned the car, or from before you bought it? What were the issues and what work was carried out on the car?

 

When you make reference to the "dealer" are you talking about an approved Skoda retailer in India, or a non-Skoda independent garage?

 

Who did you buy the car from and how long ago?

[vredesbyrd93]

Just now, silver1011 said:

If you didn't give them permission to inspect the engine then how were they able to adjust the belt and offer their recommendation on a new belt?

 

"Got it reset at the service centre and they told me to get it replaced within a month."

 

Going back a couple of steps, you also mentioned "apparently had issues with timing belt". Was this whilst you've owned the car, or from before you bought it? What were the issues and what work was carried out on the car?

 

When you make reference to the "dealer" are you talking about an approved Skoda retailer in India, or a non-Skoda independent garage?

 

Who did you buy the car from and how long ago?

A a day before this incident they reset the belt. It is an authorised center. That was the only issue. The belt had jumped so the car wouldn't start. I gave them a go-ahead for opening. They said they did a reset on the belt and drove the car for 20km, working absolutely fine. Next day, I turn up, pay whatever required for resetting and set off. I was told that I should get a new belt within a month. I thought I'd come next week and drop the car off since I live 60km away from the center and have a strong need of a vehicle. 20-25km from the center, sudden power loss on the motorway. Voila, belt gone bad. They never pick up any calls. All this happened on the 12th of November. Come 15th, they were sleeping on it for 3 days and then suddenly decided to ask me for an approval to access the engine for inspection. I mailed the approval since I could not visit due to work. I called the technical assistant yesterday and he tells me that piston heads are gone and valves are bent. And this evening, I get that mail quoting 6 grand without even inspecting it, effectively saying "You didn't send us a mail, so here's a quote anyway". It's a pre-owned car from a used car dealer. Bought it in May '18.

[silver1011]

So, you took the car to an approved Skoda retailer after it failed to start.

 

You instructed and paid them, and they were able to fix the car, start the engine and send you on your way?

 

The engine then failed 20 kilometres later?

 

No doubt in my eyes, the dealer is liable. Unless they can prove that the damage was already done (i.e. when the belt first slipped and prevented the car from starting), then whatever work they have performed on the car has had a direct effect on its failure.

 

You need to be robust and firm in your response, stand your ground. Have you spoken to Skoda India customer services?

[vredesbyrd93]

6 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

So, you took the car to an approved Skoda retailer after it failed to start.

 

You instructed and paid them, and they were able to fix the car, start the engine and send you on your way?

 

The engine then failed 20 kilometres later?

 

No doubt in my eyes, the dealer is liable. Unless they can prove that the damage was already done (i.e. when the belt first slipped and prevented the car from starting), then whatever work they have performed on the car has had a direct effect on its failure.

 

You need to be robust and firm in your response, stand your ground. Have you spoken to Skoda India customer services?

Yes.  It is as you have reiterated. I did contact the customer services. I have a telephonic appointment tomorrow. Will give them hell.

[silver1011]

Good luck!

[rayx]

Do have any paperwork, invoice etc. for the first time you got your car back? I am sure it was not done free of charge as the car was not bought at that dealer, where they just "reseted" the belt ...

If the belt was bad, they could not just reset it in basic position, they had to mount new one together with the tensioner and othe needed parts. What mileage is that car and do you have service history? Timing belt has stricttly given service schedule when to replace

[silver1011]

I've read it as them adjusting the timing, rather than removing and replacing the cambelt.

[chimaera]

28 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

I've read it as them adjusting the timing, rather than removing and replacing the cambelt.

If the belt has jumped teeth, it has to be removed and refitted to restore the timing properly. I can't understand why the garage didn't just do the timing belt at that point since they've already done the labour needed. This is assuming they actually went as far as removing and refitting the belt in the first place.

 

IMO that engine was probably damaged to begin with if the timing belt had jumped far enough to prevent the car from starting.

[vredesbyrd93]

5 hours ago, chimaera said:

If the belt has jumped teeth, it has to be removed and refitted to restore the timing properly. I can't understand why the garage didn't just do the timing belt at that point since they've already done the labour needed. This is assuming they actually went as far as removing and refitting the belt in the first place.

 

IMO that engine was probably damaged to begin with if the timing belt had jumped far enough to prevent the car from starting.

The engine was fine. Wouldn't have run for 20-25km normal if it was. Well, they said they they timed and refit the belt because it was jumping.

[vredesbyrd93]

10 hours ago, rayx said:

Do have any paperwork, invoice etc. for the first time you got your car back? I am sure it was not done free of charge as the car was not bought at that dealer, where they just "reseted" the belt ...

If the belt was bad, they could not just reset it in basic position, they had to mount new one together with the tensioner and othe needed parts. What mileage is that car and do you have service history? Timing belt has stricttly given service schedule when to replace

They reset the belt in basic. But told me to get a new timing kit in a month's time. They didn't think that the belt would fail so fast or it was simply a ploy to rob me.

[silver1011]

Once a belt is removed it should never be refitted.

 

The minute they removed the belt it's a full new cambelt kit including the tensioners.

[vredesbyrd93]

Thanks a ton, mates. The dealer owned up and it is now being fixed at a minimal cost.
P.S: Can anyone suggest good 16 inch rims? Also, I have all four Michelin Primacy ST3 205/55 R16s. What happens if I 'plus zero' to 215/55 or 225/55 besides increased grip?

[silver1011]

These are the only (UK) approved tyre sizes for the MkII Superb...

 

 

 

[chimaera]

1 hour ago, silver1011 said:

These are the only (UK) approved tyre sizes for the MkII Superb...

 

 

 

 

There are quite a few more than that: the list inside the filler flap is the most common sizes for your model but it's far from complete.

 

I've posted the full list of type approved sizes here:

 

5 hours ago, vredesbyrd93 said:

Thanks a ton, mates. The dealer owned up and it is now being fixed at a minimal cost.
P.S: Can anyone suggest good 16 inch rims? Also, I have all four Michelin Primacy ST3 205/55 R16s. What happens if I 'plus zero' to 215/55 or 225/55 besides increased grip?

 

If you go for a wider tyre with the same profile you'll end up with a larger rolling radius, which will throw off your speedometer and odometer. The profile is the percentage of the tread width: sidewall height of a 205/55 is nominally 113 mm (205 x 55/100) while a 225/55 is 124 mm. If you want to maintain the rolling radius, 225/50 is about the same as 205/55.

[vredesbyrd93]

Thanks!

[SuperbTWM]

On ‎21‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 09:25, silver1011 said:

Once a belt is removed it should never be refitted.

 

The minute they removed the belt it's a full new cambelt kit including the tensioners.

You know better than to suggest that.

 

Skoda would happily refit an old belt to an old tensioner, that's the whole reason why I had to fork out another £160 when my water pump failed.

Edited 30 November, 2018 by SuperbTWM

[silver1011]

This will vary dealer by dealer.

 

Once that belt is taken off, and therefore the tension is released, if the same belt is refitted it is likely to be weaker than before it was removed.

 

This will be exacerbated the older the belt is and the higher mileage it has covered.

 

The same applies to the tensioners.

 

Given the relatively small cost of a cambelt kit, if my dealer was replacing a leaking water pump, they'd be putting on a new cambelt too.

 

 

[SuperbTWM]

I totally agree with you, I maybe should have pushed them a bit more but after 3 years of terrible service at that dealer I just wanted it to be done and get out of there with the hopes of never returning again.

[silver1011]

Urgh, hopefully not DM Keith, they aren't the best.

[bigjohn]

2 hours ago, silver1011 said:

Urgh, hopefully not DM Keith, they aren't the best.

 

I find the Hull DM Keith have been pretty good thus far.

 

Liked the York one when it was F R Pulleyn's - way back when - not cheap though.