My sister has asked me to look into extending the range of their home wifi as it isn't very strong in the attic. The router is in the lounge on the ground floor so there are basically 2 options:

 

1. wifi range extender
2. powerline adapter with wifi

 

I've not used either before, but I believe that the powerline adapter will generally give better performance. However, I've also read that in order for them to work effectively, the sockets being used have to be on the same ring.

 

My gut says that the attic will probably be on a different ring to the lounge but that's not really based on anything scientific and as I know absolutely diddly squat about electrics, I don't know how to check how many rings there are in a house. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

If there's only one fusebox then see what the breakers are labelled is the easiest way.

You could also add the router on the first floor and that should cover the attic - presuming that's on the same circuit. 

Edited 11 February, 20197 yr by john999boy

We use powerline adapters and I know for a fact they are on different rings (one is in a 1st floor extension that is on a different circuit to the router in the original part of the house in the ground floor hall) but still seem to work OK.  Also our wifi from the ground floor router reaches our bedroom in the converted roofspace with no issues...  does it just need re-positioning a bit?

4 minutes ago, skomaz said:

We use powerline adapters and I know for a fact they are on different rings (one is in a 1st floor extension that is on a different circuit to the router in the original part of the house in the ground floor hall) but still seem to work OK.  Also our wifi from the ground floor router reaches our bedroom in the converted roofspace with no issues...  does it just need re-positioning a bit?

 

Thanks skomaz, that's good to know - reason I asked is that I've read a bunch of articles that state they have to be on the same ring. What sort of performance to you get over the powerline?

 

Options for moving the router are very limited - any kind of repositioning would mean the router was basically sat in the middle of the room as there's nowhere else to put it. I'm sure being in an alcove by the TV doesn't help the range at all, but there just isn't anywhere else for it to go (unless I supposed they got Virgin in to install another socket...but that's going to cost).

 

 

OK, I don't actually know about your sis's place, but most domestic installs I've seen use a 6-way DB with cooker, shower, ground floor lighting, 1st fl lighting, gf small power and 1st fl sm power, and attic with either its own 2-way db or in a conversion the attic fed by spurs off the first floor rings. (ignores heating circuits)

Best: Run a seperate ethernet cable and add an accesspoint in the attic

Worst: Use wifi repeaters.

 

Powerline is kind of a random guess. First, it depends on the cabling in the house. Especially if it has to pass multiple db, the signal can get worse.

If you have a 3-phase setup, you need additional hardware to bond it to all phases. By default, the units have to be on the same phase.

 

Also, it is very vulnerable to noise on the wires (eg caused by cheap chinese power supplies, some led lighting and so on)

 

Best chances with powerline: directly connected to the wall socket (no extension leads) and use the newer technologies like g.hn. But thats hard to find in the specs unfortunately.

As for the rings: I'm not familar with UK power designs. I assume each floor has its own wiring to the main db? In that case, it will work, as long as its on the same phase. However, passing the main db (so going from one to another ring) can decrease the performance/througput. But with a decent set, this still can be within acceptable levels)

 

Basicly: Cheap (so called AV500) sets use only the line and neutral. Better sets (generally advertised as AV1200 or so) also use the earth lead. With 3 wires, some new techniques can be used, significantly reducing the noise (and causing better speeds/more reliable connections)

 

Another option might be the coaxial cable if available, and use this for MoCa. This is a good and solid option. Less fast and more expensive than running a cable tho, but imho way better than a bet on powerline.,

 

Due to the amount of interference (noise), powerline can be a pita. It might work, but all of a sudden also stops working for reasons which are almost impossible to diagnose..

 

As for the wifi: Search for a good accesspoint and use one which does support 5Ghz. 

2.4Ghz is overcrowded, so not a chance this will give a fast and solid connection (unless you're living very remote). 

 

My personal recommendation would be a Ubiquiti Unifi AC lite (Or pro, but thats overkill if you don't have clients which can use it, or don't have the bandwith available). 

 

Bottomline:

- Use a decent accesspoint, with 5Ghz support

- Make sure the clients are using 5Ghz as well

- Use a dedicated wired uplink, either a network cable, or moca.

 

Edited 11 February, 20197 yr by DJSmiley

Having had very limited success with powerline adapters (much lower data rates than the spec suggested, occasional dropouts) even when on the same ring - I've used a Netgear EX6200 WiFi extender in 2 different properties (a house and a bungalow) with complete success. When I upgrade to tri-band WiFi I'll swap that to an EX8000.

 

A plus point of both of those is that as well as extending the WiFi you also get 4 Ethernet ports for hardwired devices.

I have had good luck with powerline adapters. 

 

2 of them are on different rings and one is on a boiler radial circuit. All working fine. 

 

not used them as WiFi boosters though, I tend to go with wired where I can. 

Edited 11 February, 20197 yr by SuperbTWM

I use TP Link powerline adaptors over two rings and a separate spur to the garage and no issues. I had tried wireless repeaters before but was just frustrating. 

I used a Powerline adapter to provide WiFi in a different building to the router on a remote island that was powered by solar charged batteries and a generator and it seemed to work pretty well. It was a terribly slow microwave link so can't vouch for the speed but it seemed to be reliable!

10 hours ago, CWARD said:

I use TP Link powerline adaptors over two rings and a separate spur to the garage and no issues. I had tried wireless repeaters before but was just frustrating. 

 

I have a TP Link with three Ethernet ports and WiFi in the remote location and it’s a brilliant bit of kit. 

4 hours ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

 

I have a TP Link with three Ethernet ports and WiFi in the remote location and it’s a brilliant bit of kit. 

 

Mine have the Ethernet ports too and use them for streaming devices. Even the garage has my old Roberts network dab radio in there with streaming. They’re a no brainier really. 

Most houses are fed by one phase ( Sparky's WILL POSSIBLY CONFIRM THIS). But as there's three phases on a power distribution cable, every fourth house will be able to receive the signal from a unit connected to mains. But for WiFi , older houses can be like a Faraday cage for WiFi.I remember lots of years ago ( when the old style cordless phones were being replaced by DECT ones) being asked to trial a DECT in an old country house. Inside th house it worked, but take it out and there was no signal on the DECT, but on the old style ( Birds of a feather style ) , no problems. So it might be a case for cat 5. And that leads to looking how to hide it. Hiding wiring is not difficult, it just involves using the camouflage of th house.

2 minutes ago, VWD said:

every fourth house will be able to receive the signal from a unit connected to mains. 

 

I don't think its very likely they can transmit that far unless you live in apartments or flats. I did a quick google and some people have claimed that they have connected to one of their neighbours but I don't see how they would have been able to pair with other powerline adapters without having access to press the button on the other one

Quote

Powerline technology is arguably more secure than a wireless network too. As data is sent across the copper wiring in your home, it can't be hacked or misused from the outside. Modern Powerline kit also encourages you to password protect your adapters, adding an extra layer of protection.

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/networking/powerline-networking-what-you-need-to-know-930691

22 hours ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

I don't think its very likely they can transmit that far unless you live in apartments or flats. I did a quick google and some people have claimed that they have connected to one of their neighbours but I don't see how they would have been able to pair with other powerline adapters without having access to press the button on the other one

Common problem in the old days when baby alarms used the house wiring to send audio from monitor to receiver. OK, baby monitors in those days had no selective settings.

From my understanding of power transmission in domestic properties on a single phase system , the distribution system is on a three phase system, with phase to neutral giving domestic voltage of circa 230v AC. ( Other voltages are available between the phases , ). So , from memory, the phases are RED/Yellow /Blue. Lets imagine that first house is supplied on Red phase, second on Yellow and third on blue. So fourth house is supplied by RED phase( as is house 7 /and every fourth house etc). And what phase is house 1 ,with powerline adaptor on- YEP =RED.

CW-it can't be hacked from outside- but who'd want to mess around with mains ,when all you need to hack into a powerline setup somewhere on your road on same phase is an adaptor and password breaking software. Not really much different from what is needed to hack into a WiFi setup.  Looking at networks close to me with strengths from good to poor, there's seven. All I'd need if I wanted to hack into one of them is password hacking software.

 

I might be wrong but it’s not just a case of plugging in an adapter even on the same ring and you’ve got connection. The adapters need to be paired to work together even if the same brand so even if No 3 & 7 bought the same equipment it’s unlikely they would be able to access each other’s network as their adapters wouldn’t recognise each other. The pairing works like WPS in the router pressing a button on the master adapter then on the slave adapters within a set time. 

2 hours ago, CWARD said:

I might be wrong but it’s not just a case of plugging in an adapter even on the same ring and you’ve got connection. The adapters need to be paired to work together even if the same brand so even if No 3 & 7 bought the same equipment it’s unlikely they would be able to access each other’s network as their adapters wouldn’t recognise each other. The pairing works like WPS in the router pressing a button on the master adapter then on the slave adapters within a set time. 

Yes that's what I thought.

 

I did read somewhere that the signal should not be able to exit the houses circuits anyway because of the electric meter. I presume this might be because of the current transformer inside and the magnetic fields involved but who knows. In fact, modern meters probably just use a shunt anyway so its probably just rubbish

Edited 15 February, 20197 yr by SuperbTWM

On 15/02/2019 at 07:27, CWARD said:

I might be wrong but it’s not just a case of plugging in an adapter even on the same ring and you’ve got connection. The adapters need to be paired to work together even if the same brand so even if No 3 & 7 bought the same equipment it’s unlikely they would be able to access each other’s network as their adapters wouldn’t recognise each other. The pairing works like WPS in the router pressing a button on the master adapter then on the slave adapters within a set time. 

 

 

Yep that's right. Powerline kit makes your wires give off radio frequency interference. If you've got radio hams nearby they'll hate you. You have to pair the devices (although you can 'pair' more than two together). I have used TP-Link kit to do this for a few years now.

 

It's fairly reliable but not without issues. I have had one set of kit just stop working for no obviosu reason. The current stuff has been ok but regularly one of the adapters will faint and need to be switched off and on again. That happens maybe once a week but always in the middle of streaming tv content.

 

One thing to note with regard to powerline adapters is that the stated speed figure is shared. So if it says 500M that is 500M in both directions so if both adapters are talking it;s 250M each way. If you have 4 devices that 500M is shared between all of them. So speed quickly drops. However unless you are doing large files transfers a lot it's fine for TV etc since your broadband is unlikely to be much more than 12-50M.

 

I have a couple of triple adapters which are handy. It lets the tv, xbox and Amazon box all be connected without faffing with wires.

I had TP Link powerline adapters and had nothing but trouble with them. I sold them on the cheap and bought some rather more expensive Devolo powerline ones. They work flawlessly and give me wifi and 2 ethernet ports in the office upstairs and also wifi in the shed which is at the otther end of the garage. Yes, they cost more, but the benefit is that you're probably going to have a useable system over the cheaper ones.