Battery charging

[05surveyor]

My wife's Rapid 1.2TSI has regularly displayed the message, "BATTERY LOW, PLEASE START ENGINE OR TURN OFF INFOTAINMENT", on ignition turn on. It has done this from new but has always started OK. It is now 3 years old so no longer eligible for Skoda Assist. My Skoda garage says I need to charge the battery every month or so to cure the problem.

 

Two questions;

 

1. Is this a common problem with this model fitted with. MOLL battery?

 

2. I have seen somewhere that vehicles with START/STOP must be charged with a special charger. Is this true? If it is can anyone recommend a suitable charger?

 

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

[KenONeill]

8 minutes ago, 05surveyor said:

My Skoda garage says I need to charge the battery every month or so to cure the problem.

Can you give us more info on the usage pattern of the Rapid? This strikes me as not impossible if the car has an alarm, a permanent live radio, and only gets out for a few short trips say 1 week a month.

[05surveyor]

The Rapid does very few long journeys. Most are between 8 and 30 miles two or three times a week. I can understand that the battery probably does need top ups and I want to buy a charger, but one that is suitable for the car.

[KenONeill]

Well, that strikes me as an entirely adequate usage pattern to keep the battery charged.

[AGFalco]

On modern cars with Stop/start the battery will NOT be fully charged by the car.

The alternator only works if the battery needs charging and/or when you brake.

 

So on a long journey the alternator might not be charging the battery apart from after start up and when braking.

The alternator not working helps with fuel consumption.

 

A smart charger ( Ctek is a good make ) is what you want but read where you need to connect the leads.

Normally the negative is connected to the bodywork/bolt and NOT to the battery. HTH.

 

Thanks AG Falco

 

[05surveyor]

Thanks, that's really helpful.

[Bobclive2]

Hello,

 

If you have stop/start on your car you will have a smart alternator and EMU controlled smart charging for energy regeneration, this system gives minimal savings in real world conditions, there is a sensor on the negative rail of the starter battery which enables this system to work.

If this system is on your car the probable reason for the stating problems with your 3 year old AGM battery is that the smart system tries to maintain the State of charge in the starter batter at 75/80% , this is to allow room in the battery for any regeneration which occurs at around 16 volts, if the battery was full it would be destroyed at that voltage, a normal charging voltage is around 14.2 volts which cannot overcharge the battery even when full.

 

When the battery was new there was enough energy in the battery even at 75% to start the car, at 3 years old there isn`t, the battery is probably OK and has many years left in it, but not with smart charging.

 

There are 3 ways of getting over this starting problem, (1) buy a new battery (2) connect a charger each day or (3) disconnect the sensor on the negative black lead on the starter battery this will instantly enable the alternator to go into default charging mode at a steady 13.8 to 14.3 volts and attempt to fully charge the battery to 100% not 75%. 

 

You should have no EML lights and the car should drive as normal, you will though loose stop/start, I consider that a bonus, if you do not like just reconnect, without stop/start and regeneration you do not need an expensive AGM battery and there is no need to recode battery.

 

I have been running my 2012 Mercedes C Class Coupe for the last 6 months with this sensor disconnect, it has just past it`s MOT still with sensor disconnected, there is a discussion on this forum regarding disconnecting this sensor.

Edited 2 April, 2019 by Bobclive2
spelling

[05surveyor]

There is no starting problem, the engine starts perfectly every time. It just gives this message almost every time the ignition key is turned. If I fully charge the battery with a smart charger are you saying this will harm the battery?

[Bobclive2]

32 minutes ago, 05surveyor said:

There is no starting problem, the engine starts perfectly every time. It just gives this message almost every time the ignition key is turned. If I fully charge the battery with a smart charger are you saying this will harm the battery?

 

That`s probably because the system sees the state of charge of the battery is low ( read post above), it closes down certain systems to ensure when stop start is functional the battery has enough energy to restart the car. Turn stop start off and see if warnings go away, other than that charge battery with a C-Tech smart charger, keep stop start on and drive the car, if warnings come back after a few days it means battery is not being adequately charged, try my last posting, it won`t hurt the car or the battery, disconnecting sensor is same as sensor failing, a failed battery sensor won`t destroy anything, it hasn`t on my Merc. 

Edited 2 April, 2019 by Bobclive2

[Flopsy]

from my experience with a Mk 3 Fabia(April 2016) you should have nothing to worry about the engine turns over quite well. I've seen this warning quite a few times in Winter and even got one of these  https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FC42HAA/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item  just in case.

I've used the charger a couple of times but I'm beginning to think it's a luxury now. For the record our car will be 3 years old at the end of this month and has only covered 6700 miles to date: I won't do less than 4 or 5 miles per journey as it's bad for the car generally.

I'm currently wondering where to get the car's first MOT and second service done so if anyone knows a good Skoda dealer within 25 miles of Preston let me know.

Edited 3 April, 2019 by Flopsy
added info

[05surveyor]

1 minute ago, Flopsy said:

from my experience with a Mk 3 Fabia(April 2016) you should have nothing to worry about the engine turns over quite well. I've seen this warning quite a few times in Winter and even got one of these  https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FC42HAA/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item  just in case.

I've used the charger a couple of times but I'm beginning to think it's a luxury now. For the record our car will be 3 years old at the end of this month and has only covered 6700 miles to date: I won't do less than 4 or 5 miles per journey as it's bad for the car generally.

I'm currently wondering where to get the car's first MOT and second service done so if anyone knows a good Skoda dealer within 25 miles of Preston let me know.

Thanks for this info. I am currently talking to Skoda UK who seem to think that the info from the Skoda dealership may not be correct.

[Bobclive2]

5 hours ago, 05surveyor said:

Thanks for this info. I am currently talking to Skoda UK who seem to think that the info from the Skoda dealership may not be correct.

 

At least you now know how the system works. the link below shows how you are being had.

 

Johnson Controls, the world’s largest start-stop battery manufacturer, told BESB on August 10 that ‘parties’ were discussing the complete removal of the option to override the start-stop function in new cars.

 

AGM AFTERMARKET FALTERS AS DRIVERS DISABLE START-STOP FUNCTION

 

But although AGM or EFB batteries are more expensive than standard SLI, the cost of having to replace them more often would be balanced by the fuel savings, said Riedel.

“These batteries result in an average fuel consumption saving of 5%,” he said. “We have our own internal test vehicles and we achieved numbers which are higher than 5%.”

 

http://www.batteriesinternational.com/2017/08/10/agm-aftermarket-falters-as-drivers-disable-start-stop-function/

 

So you have to purchase an expensive AGM battery because you have been led to believe you get a 5% fuel gain with stop/start, yet the batteries need replacing more often with this system which then cancels out these gains, that`s if you actually get a gain of 5% in the first place, what is even more cynical is that you only get a 3 year warranty on the AGM battery yet get 5 years on the cheaper flooded lead acid. To top this off you now have smart charging as part of that system which tries it`s best not to allow the battery to be charged from the engine but only when you are going down hill or braking, Brilliant.  Well not for me thanks, both my merc`s have had the sensor disconnected.

Edited 3 April, 2019 by Bobclive2

[05surveyor]

Thanks, valuable information.

[Bobclive2]

 The increase in battery-related complaints is continuing in 2018, according to Jason Searl of Johnson Controls International plc. Battery performance is a leading source of consumer dissatisfaction with vehicles, and it has been increasing each year as vehicles become more complex.

 

https://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/729804/oem-battery-trends-how-the-latest-technologies-affect-battery-sales-and-service

 

The problem is NOT the battery it is stop/start and smart charging, it is not rocket science, if you have more load on the battery it needs to be fully charged.

 

[05surveyor]

Thanks again.

[J.R.]

BobClive.

 

Excellent analysis and very well explained, people who follow your advice will get many many more trouble free years from their OE batteries which are usually (Moll excepted) very good quality.

 

I dont for a moment believe the bull about 5% extra fuel economy from smart charging, even with stop-start I doubt that it would be more than 1% even for city centre rush hour commuters.

 

Disconnection definitely is the way to go and lets hope it wil still work when they remove the off switch for stop-start.

[05surveyor]

Some time since my original post on this topic, but in January the Rapid refused to start whilst out shopping and parked in the shop car park.  It had driven 12 miles to the shop with no problem and had been parked for only 30 minute or so.  Breakdown chap arrived and tested the battery which was absolutely flat.  He started the car with his jump pack and we drove 12 miles home with no further trouble.  I purchased a new battery from Halfords and fitted it myself.  Ever since then the "Low Battery" message has not appeared and the Start/Stop system cuts in far more frequently than it had done before.  This supports my original suspicion that the original MOLL battery was the problem.  MOLL batteries had been replaced by Skoda when they had been fitted as standard to new Kodiaqs, but Skoda always said that the problem only affected Kodiaqs fitted with MOLL batteries , and definitely did not affect Rapids fitted with MOLL batteries.

[Millstone]

Bonus with a Halfords battery is the 5 year warranty- better than the OEM one!

[nta16]

My wife's 2015 Fabia Mk3 had a VWSkoda UK Recall done in August 2018, 97CU - AFAIK "Technical background - For Škoda vehicles of a certain production period the energy management of the vehicle battery has been optimised.  Remedy - On the affected vehicles the onboard supply control unit must be reprogrammed (see criterions)."

 

I (prematurely to save hassle) fitted an AGM battery to my wife's 2015 Fabia Mk3 in December 2021 and a Biskoda member 'coded'; it for me and since then I've found it best to do preventative fully recharging with an appropriate battery charger and maintainer, and more often than I'd expected, as the car does only short journeys most days.

 

I find Halfords to be usually expensive for car batteries plus they sometimes have their own numbering system for the batteries that doesn't match other numbering systems and from what I've read on this site their 'coding' practices seem variable and unreliable.

 

Many EFB batteries that I've noticed have a 4 year warranty and AGM 5 years but a good battery is a good battery regardless of numbers (Ah, cranking, warranty).

 

I and others on here use Tayna for car batteries - many other suppliers are available though, the choice is always with you. -https://www.tayna.co.uk/

 

A friend has a couple of identical Ctek expensive chargers yet they vary a little to each other in use and performance so I'm personally not impressed with Ctek as I know others that get perfectly good performance from the likes of Lidl £15 "smart" start/stop chargers and maintainers.

 

I personal went for a £23 Ring (4-amp) "smart" charger and maintainer and have found it fine in use on my wife's 2015 Fabia Mk3 and neighbours cars (with and with out start/stop batteries).  Model now changed to Ring 900, probably available from other than Ring at lower price). - https://shop.ringautomotive.com/rsc904-4a-smart-battery-charger-maintainer.html