@Wino how the hell do I use that site literally won’t let me access any of the navigation links

If you need the Haynes ones I could take photos of them and post them here for you.

Edited 15 August, 20196 yr by TMB

1 minute ago, TMB said:

If you need the Haynes ones I could take photos of them and post them here for you.

That would be amazing! Thanks @TMB

No probs, will get onto it

I’m actually wondering how much difference there is in the BCMs and if I can splice into the CBZ loom after it comes out of the ECU and use the wires needed to run the BMD BCM.

 

Ive looked through several images and can see that rather than having multiple connectors on the MK1 the 2010 onward MK2 have gone to two single plugs with multiple pins.

 

I’m just not sure what the the ECU needs back from the BCM and if I can keep the original key and use the transponder from the CBZ key mounted somewhere in the cabin. Or if the CBZ will need the corollating BCM to start.

 

If I can make this work and it means spending multiple hours cutting and soldering that’s fine as I’d really like to keep the clocks and interior wiring as the MK1 stuff.

The later VAG group cars went to a full CAN line control system so I doubt you could successfully mix the modules from an earlier K line car.

8 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

The later VAG group cars went to a full CAN line control system so I doubt you could successfully mix the modules from an earlier K line car.

 

So would it be a case of splicing after the BCM? Would that then work? 

No, you are looking at two completely different ways of wiring a car. Multiplex wiring makes life a lot easier in getting things working. So for example it would be a lot easier putting a MK2 engine in a MK3. 

Rather than relying on the Haynes book of lies, buy this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELSAWIN6-0-2017-Workshop-Service-Repair-Manual-FOR-VW-SKODA-AUDI-SEAT-VEHICLES/383104897188?epid=12012339011&hash=item5932d4d0a4:g:BV4AAOSwe4FdQ~33  as it will give you the OEM diagrams with the interlinking connectors not shown in the Haynes

Having trouble getting the images to come out clear on here. I could email them to you Mike? You should be able to zoom them up on your device. Doesn't seem to work if I try zooming them once posted on here.

Edited 15 August, 20196 yr by TMB

8 hours ago, Tech1e said:

No, you are looking at two completely different ways of wiring a car. Multiplex wiring makes life a lot easier in getting things working. So for example it would be a lot easier putting a MK2 engine in a MK3. 

@Tech1e I appreciate your input here I’ve seen your project thread lol. So I’m looking at ECU BCM clocks and changing the barrel on the column to accept the new key and then the door locks. My question now is stuff like the door looms and boot lid the looms are some what different in the MK2 but as I’ve not seen the wiring diagrams yet I’d assume most of this stuff is run from relays so would I be able to splice them in or do I need to get the connectors off the MK1 looms and attach them to the MK2 loom? Or are the connectors them same? 

 

@TMB appreciate you trying to load them up on here I’ll send you a PM with my email if that’s okay.

 

9 hours ago, nige8021 said:

Rather than relying on the Haynes book of lies, buy this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELSAWIN6-0-2017-Workshop-Service-Repair-Manual-FOR-VW-SKODA-AUDI-SEAT-VEHICLES/383104897188?epid=12012339011&hash=item5932d4d0a4:g:BV4AAOSwe4FdQ~33  as it will give you the OEM diagrams with the interlinking connectors not shown in the Haynes

 

@nige8021 that looks spot on I’ll do little more research but I might get one anyway as I think I’m going to be with Skoda for a very long time.

 

and again thank you everyone for your input I am keen to do this if I can figure out how to make it work. 😊

12 hours ago, mikey362 said:

@Wino how the hell do I use that site literally won’t let me access any of the navigation links

 

I wrote this mini-guide nearly four years ago:

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/118646-erwin-now-available-for-skoda/?do=findComment&comment=4377473

 

Thanks @Wino I’ll have another go tonight on the computer instead of the iPad as I still can’t navigate to anything lol.

I still maintain if you have a donor car stripping the MK1 back to a shell (which doesn't take long) and building it back up with the MK2 wiring harness as a whole will be the easiest way to go. The 2010> BCM is on another level compared to the old wiring in the MK1.

100% agree, any attempted blend of mk1 and mk2 wiring and electronic modules is a nightmare in the making.

It was a question I wanted to ask just for the sake of keeping the original instrument cluster on the MK1. Would you guys know how compatible the MK2 Looms are going to be with the equipment in the MK1 for example window regulators, rear window heater and door locks?

 

Ive no problem stripping the interior it can’t be that hard (he says lol).

Stripping the interior is easy, stripping it without breaking stuff is much trickier! Hard plastic gets fragile after 15 years.

5 minutes ago, mikey362 said:

It was a question I wanted to ask just for the sake of keeping the original instrument cluster on the MK1. Would you guys know how compatible the MK2 Looms are going to be with the equipment in the MK1 for example window regulators, rear window heater and door locks?

 

Ive no problem stripping the interior it can’t be that hard (he says lol).

 

Simple answer is they aren't compatible.

Right I think that’s where the real issues are going to be. Time to do some more research 

Hi guys, been away and done a lot of reading about CAN and how it works in different vehicles with different modules.

 

Im hoping someone can tell me if I’m right in thinking that the can system on the MK1 is used only for diagnostics? 

Don't think so. As I understand it, the CAN bus is the way that all the main modules talk to each other. 

4 minutes ago, mikey362 said:

Hi guys, been away and done a lot of reading about CAN and how it works in different vehicles with different modules.

 

Im hoping someone can tell me if I’m right in thinking that the can system on the MK1 is used only for diagnostics? 

 

Yes, it's a very low level CAN, it's quite different to a full CAN vehicle.

Thanks for the quick reply’s guys.

 

I was hoping that I was right with that. Through the research I’ve done and what I study at uni I think I’ve got a pretty good understanding of how the CAN system works.

 

Next step is to get the wiring diagrams for the MK2 CBZ engine and the ECU pinout diagram. Although I might be waiting for the kids to go back to school first so I get some time to focus lol.

So what's the plan, you thinking of mixing and matching the MK1 and MK2 still?

 

What are you going to do about the dash cluster for example?

 

I’m not 100% sure what the actual plan as far as starting to pull the car apart and get the engine will be yet.

 

My goal for this project was really to keep it a MK1 with a newer engine and as the CBZ will mount up perfectly gearbox and all its a great place to start. So mixing the two together would be what I would like to do. The more seemless it is the better as I want it to be reliable. 

 

My understanding of the CAN system is that it is “open ended”  and will continue to operate without a lot of messages being received from modules. So unless the CBZ ECU needs something particular from the other modules to run I should be able to remove them. Both psychically and through coding (that will take some time to learn but for all intents and purposes appears to be yet another variation of C#). Should still operate with out being removed through code.

 

IIRC and I’ve slept since the MK1 gauge cluster needs inputs from pretty much every sensor which means I may have to install additional sensors to the CBZ or piggy back off some. I will see what happens when I get to that point of fishing through the MK2 diagrams.

 

As it stands I’m not sure if I need the cluster to run the engine. Obviously if I do then I’ll have to look in to that but again until I get the MK2 diagrams and get to go through them I don’t know. 

 

My real worry is the CAN gateway as it’s actually in the ECU on both the MK1 and MK2 which if I can’t get the the diagnostic CAN for the MK1 to talk to the Mk2 then I may end up having to install a second OBD port that or everything from the MK1 will be back to fault finding the old way 😂.

 

There is other stuff that I need to do as well like respray the back bumper, I’d like to colour code the bump strips on the front back bumpers. Change the interior, upgrade the speaks add some sound proofing etc which some bits will be done before I actually start this and some won’t lol.

 

Sorry I know that’s a very long reply haha

 

edit - @Tech1e if you were thinking about the immobiliser was contemplating having it deleted from the ecu.

Edited 19 August, 20196 yr by mikey362