The 2019 Election - Done and Overwhelmingly Dusted!!

[gadgetman]

3 hours ago, CWARD said:

An interesting and fairly accurate summary of the current position

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/new-deal-new-tactics/

Boris & Corbyn impotence is actually bolstering Brexit and Lib Dems as they have clear policies on Brexit. 

[CWARD]

1 minute ago, gadgetman said:

Boris & Corbyn impotence is actually bolstering Brexit and Lib Dems as they have clear policies on Brexit. 

As well as a policy that ignores the referendum in one if not the biggest  democratic acts in UK history, ironic for the Liberal Democrat’s. 
 

They also have issue of where stand these MPs that defected to their party. They won’t be popular where they got voted to sit in parliament. It will be interesting to see which marginal seats they target as they’ve done better against Labour than Torys 

[gadgetman]

8 minutes ago, CWARD said:

As well as a policy that ignores the referendum in one if not the biggest  democratic acts in UK history, ironic for the Liberal Democrat’s. 
 

They also have issue of where stand these MPs that defected to their party. They won’t be popular where they got voted to sit in parliament. It will be interesting to see which marginal seats they target as they’ve done better against Labour than Torys 

Lol

 

You can't on one hand say a Boris win gives him a mandate one way then in the same breath say a lib Dems win wouldn't give them a mandate to revoke. 

 

Either a party would have a mandate or they won't. That's what everyone wants, want democracy back etc isn't it? 

 

What's more democratic than an election? Right? 

[CWARD]

15 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

Lol

 

You can't on one hand say a Boris win gives him a mandate one way then in the same breath say a lib Dems win wouldn't give them a mandate to revoke. 

 

Either a party would have a mandate or they won't. That's what everyone wants, want democracy back etc isn't it? 

 

What's more democratic than an election? Right? 

Never mentioned that Lib Dem’s wouldn’t have a mandate to do as they wanted if they won.  I said it’s un-democratic to overturn the biggest referendum in UK history, which ironic for a party with democrats in their name. 
 

What is more democratic than an election? A referendum on a binary question that doesn’t involve any loyalty to a particular political party. I think we had one of those in 2016 and there is a thread on this forum about it. 

[john999boy]

At the moment I think people will be voting along Brexit lines which is not the norm. IMHO Brexit needs to be resolved first and if that needs a binding referendum (maybe with three questions) then it needs doing before an election takes place.

[Dr Zoidberg]

2 hours ago, CWARD said:

As well as a policy that ignores the referendum in one if not the biggest  democratic acts in UK history, ironic for the Liberal Democrat’s. 
 

They also have issue of where stand these MPs that defected to their party. They won’t be popular where they got voted to sit in parliament. It will be interesting to see which marginal seats they target as they’ve done better against Labour than Torys 

If they campaign on a very clear policy of revoking Article 50, and then win a majority at the next election, it has given the public a chance to express a preference on what should happen next. That’s every bit as democratic as holding a general election every few years. 
Circumstances and opinions change, and no matter what side you are on, surely you accept that the public now know more about what leaving the EU means?

 

The same would be true if Farage campaigns on a promise to leave without a deal and ends up with a majority. 

 

I can’t see either of those coming to pass though. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[moley]

28 minutes ago, john999boy said:

At the moment I think people will be voting along Brexit lines which is not the norm. IMHO Brexit needs to be resolved first and if that needs a binding referendum (maybe with three questions) then it needs doing before an election takes place.

The opposition parties rallied together to pass the Benn bill. Why have they never got their act together for a second referendum? They couldn't get their act together for a vote of no confidence in Boris and they are about to abstain from voting for a GE. 

[shyVRS245]

2 hours ago, gadgetman said:

Lol

 

You can't on one hand say a Boris win gives him a mandate one way then in the same breath say a lib Dems win wouldn't give them a mandate to revoke. 

 

Either a party would have a mandate or they won't. That's what everyone wants, want democracy back etc isn't it? 

 

What's more democratic than an election? Right? 

Just wondering if the results from the next General Election should be respected as BINDING or ADVISORY. We may not like the results and wish to change our minds.

[@Lee]

There's Labour voters who want to leave, there's ones that want to remain, there's others that say 'well, I voted remain but we had a referendum so we should leave'.
Same thing with Tory voters.
That's three positions from just two parties. Split that between those who'll remain loyal to their party. And again to those who'd switch from C to L and vice versa.
Gets a bit more complex, doesn't it?
Then you've got people from both L & C who'd vote for BXP. Ltd. Splits the vote even further. How is a GE going to give a CLEAR view on what people think about carrying on with brexit? I don't think it will.
We're now on the third PM in forty months. May lost her mandate, spaffed a few bill on the DUP and now they've (rightly) got the hump with the tories.
There's only one clear way to sort things out. 
 

[@Lee]

1 minute ago, shyVRS245 said:

Just wondering if the results from the next General Election should be respected as BINDING or ADVISORY. We may not like the results and wish to change our minds.

And you'd be entitled to come the next GE.
Under the FTPA we *shouldn't* be having a GE until 2022 but Bojo chose not to respect that  

[gadgetman]

3 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Just wondering if the results from the next General Election should be respected as BINDING or ADVISORY. We may not like the results and wish to change our minds.

All referendums are advisory as per legislation unless Parliament pass the appropriate legislation at the time the referendum is agreed by Parliament. 

 

HTH

[moley]

1 hour ago, Lee_Esq said:

Under the FTPA we *shouldn't* be having a GE until 2022 but Bojo chose not to respect that  

Nobody told Corbyn that. He's asked for an election a few times this year,

Quote

The House of Commons’ records shows that Corbyn has demanded an immediate election 16 times in Parliament in 2019.

 

[@Lee]

11 minutes ago, moley said:

Nobody told Corbyn that. He's asked for an election a few times this year,

 

What Corbyn's said is none of my concern and is irrelevant to what I posted.
 

Quote

Under the FTPA we *shouldn't* be having a GE until 2022 but Bojo chose not to respect that

 

[gadgetman]

17 minutes ago, moley said:

Nobody told Corbyn that. He's asked for an election a few times this year,

 

How many times has Boris said we're leaving next Thursday? 

 

Bet it's more than Corbyn election demand 19 times

 

Either way we won't be leaving next week, and won't have a 2019 election. 

 

Come back next year 

[moley]

19 minutes ago, Lee_Esq said:

What Corbyn's said is none of my concern and is irrelevant to what I posted.
 

 

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[@Lee]

9 minutes ago, moley said:

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
What's your point?

[john999boy]

4 hours ago, moley said:

The opposition parties rallied together to pass the Benn bill. Why have they never got their act together for a second referendum? They couldn't get their act together for a vote of no confidence in Boris and they are about to abstain from voting for a GE. 

Probably explained by others earlier but Boris would prefer a vote of no confidence as a way forward to getting a GE. That is ‘getting their act together’ isn’t it?

As to a second referendum, there isn’t anything substantive to include (as a third option) in my (theoretical) three way alternative yet.

[Dr Zoidberg]

6 hours ago, Lee_Esq said:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
What's your point?

Don’t eat yellow snow. ....?

[CWARD]

13 hours ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

If they campaign on a very clear policy of revoking Article 50, and then win a majority at the next election, it has given the public a chance to express a preference on what should happen next. That’s every bit as democratic as holding a general election every few years. 

 

 

Is that not what I had said? It was Gadgetman who said that a GE wouldn't resolve anything.

 

13 hours ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

Circumstances and opinions change, and no matter what side you are on, surely you accept that the public now know more about what leaving the EU means?

 

Absolutely and on the flip side we should also be made aware of continued membership of the EU and all it entails that goes beyond a single market and the EU future ambitions. As we, the public, have not had a say in any EU treaty and unlikely to do so in the future then we should know what we are agreeing to be part of too and where they are heading in the future.

In my opinion if we have another referendum to decide if we leave the EU. Then the continued EU membership should include the acceptance of all future treaties, ditch the pound for the euro and become more active in the EU ambitions rather than be on the outskirts and a pain in the their neck. 

 

Edited 26 October, 2019 by john999boy
Non relevant inflammatory remark removed.

[CWARD]

For all those that don't trust the Torys but do believe Labour 🙄

 

 

[@Lee]

Not once in those 50 clips did anyone promise the UK would leave the EU. 
All those clips were from March - June 2017 after the A50 letter was sent.
When the facts as to what leaving entails, is it not right that people can shift their opinion? 

[gadgetman]

4 hours ago, CWARD said:

In my opinion if we have another referendum to decide if we leave the EU. Then the continued EU membership should include the acceptance of all future treaties, ditch the pound for the euro and become more active in the EU ambitions rather than be on the outskirts and a pain in the their neck. 

No one wants full integration 

 

 

Back to general election, if it delivers another dead parliament, then what? 

[Eddie-NL]

11 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

No one wants full integration 

 

 

Back to general election, if it delivers another dead parliament, then what? 

like the referendum requests keep going till you get what you want

[shyVRS245]

If anyone in the EU wants true democracy they could try living in Iran, Russia or China. Doubt whether you would complain about an election result.

[CWARD]

23 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

No one wants full integration 

 

 

Back to general election, if it delivers another dead parliament, then what? 

Without a say in future treaties how do you know you won’t get full integration, at least by it being part of any future referendum you get a voice. 
 

Back to the GE then if we have another deadlocked parliament the EU would give us a timetable to actually make a decision instead of kicking the can further down the road under the premise of democracy. 
 

as for a second referendum, we were already promised they wouldn’t be one so what is to prevent another, then more after that. 

Remainers keep telling us that it is down to parliament to resolve and not the people or you changing your mind again now just like the MP's who said the referendum must be honoured and it would be wrong of parliament to not.