For me the price difference between diesel and petrol was huge, as there were no petrol L&K DSG models for sale at my price range 😁

 

48mpg on my current tank, with only 200 miles being motorway, the other 300+ being town driving - the extra few pence a litre is worth it. 

2 hours ago, mark674500 said:

Would you mind sharing the link? That sounds really interesting.

I cannot find the original article I read but a search has found similar articles and it appears that I may have been guilty of some 'poetic license' in my post.

However the gap between the two is not as large as the knee-jerk political reactions suggest.

Try:

http://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/diesel-cars-zero-nox/

https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/engine_emission-control.php

 

I recently attended the start of the Adelaide based car classic (1956 to 1986 vehicles) Bay-to-Birdwood run (alternate years for classic then veteran/vintage vehicles).

I was reminded how actually bad the good old days were for emissions with leaded petrol, huge CO and CO2 outputs, and asbestos brake linings. When I cycled to work in central London in the early eighties diesel particulates were like big, black greasy 'snowflakes' when they landed on you.

 

On 05/11/2019 at 22:20, tjxkeith1 said:

I have a L&K 2016 2.0 Diesel DSG. I don't have any issues with diesel Benefit from better economy of course. I have had Audi and BMW over the years. 
 

I have a heavy right foot and have and have had a remap, so my consumption is around 42mpg. I had a new Octavia as a loan car from the dealer and got around 50mpg. If I had a petrol car the consumption would be a lot lower. 
As a ex motor tech I found the technical training guide for the Diesel engine Online which is for the USA as there laws unsure such information is in the public domain.

I was very impressed with the amount of advanced technology that went into the engine development. I estimate VAG engines 5 years ahead of the likes of Kia which my wife has also a 2016 model.

Ignore Dirty Diesel brigade DPF and Adblue take care of that.

5 years ahead in ahem* software for sure. 

 

 

Diesel is extinct.

More pollution: rev hard any modern Euro 6 Diesel engine and watch ash going out the exhaust. This is true data not marketing BS or VW scams. If some cars need to stay out of the roads, the first should be Diesel cars. All technical "solutions" to reduce pollution are a disgrace.

More noisy. Tractors.

More expensive: both in terms of initial price and maintenance, not to mention very expensive to repair.

Higher taxes.

Very sensitive to fuel quality.

May have problems to start during winter.

Odd driving compared to petrol. Exhausting for long journeys due to vibrations.

46 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

Diesel is extinct.

More pollution: rev hard any modern Euro 6 Diesel engine and watch ash going out the exhaust. This is true data not marketing BS or VW scams. If some cars need to stay out of the roads, the first should be Diesel cars. All technical "solutions" to reduce pollution are a disgrace.

More noisy. Tractors.

More expensive: both in terms of initial price and maintenance, not to mention very expensive to repair.

Higher taxes.

Very sensitive to fuel quality.

May have problems to start during winter.

Odd driving compared to petrol. Exhausting for long journeys due to vibrations.

Well diesel is not extinct as there are still many millions of them on the road and with no real viable alternative for commercial truck applications.

Secondly I am sure you are not seeing 'ash' come out of the exhaust or even soot of a hard revved maintained Euro 6 Diesel, however I won't dispute possible NOx and fine particulate excesses.

I think that old non-conforming ICE vehicles of all types should be discouraged from road use, and don't forget  rail and marine (the latter's use of bunker oil in the 100,000 or so very large commercial ships worldwide is particularly noxious)

 

Where I live in Australia (the state of South Australia) the roads are full of old polluting vehicles with little or no anti pollution gear, since our environmental laws are way behind the rest of the world there are no current incentives to remove old vehicles from the roads, there is not even an annual roadworthy test. Old Road trucks are by far the worst visible soot emitters on our roads

10 minutes ago, Gerrycan said:

Secondly I am sure you are not seeing 'ash' come out of the exhaust or even soot of a hard revved maintained Euro 6 Diesel

Oh boy, I don't know where are those well maintained Euro 6 Diesels... because i see shiny TDIs all day long that smell bad.

It is basic knowledge that when hard revved, Diesel engines can't burn all the fuel and the cat + dpf are swamped. Let's face it, Euro 6 Diesel engines are monstrosities of a monumental inefficiency. They need extra fuel to get rid of unburned fuel + ash (!) in other words they carry a furnace in the rear, which furnace magically transform bad ash to good ash and spew it out... Did i mention it costs thousands of $ to replace a DPF? Did I mention the exhaust is choked by the DPF by 20%? Oh boy, Diesels are great. Btw, they need an extra reservoir for AdBlue, another desperate solution to keep alive smoking tractors (read limousines).

Well you have your viewpoint about diesels and that is fair enough although you will forgive me for not totally agreeing with you.

You do realise that the latest Euro emission standards require petrol engines to have a GPF fitted and operate by trapping the ultra fine particles and then you clear them by revving the engine and then take your foot off the throttle to let the overrun blow the accumulated 'ash' through and presumably into the open air. So by your high standards maybe petrol engines should be equally vilified?

Oh by the way what Euro standard do you think your old Felicia complies with and do you think that it offers acceptable emission levels for the general public to breathe?

Edited 25 November, 20196 yr by Gerrycan

It's largely irrelevant which (diesel or petrol) you vilify most or indeed in scientific measures which is actually worst for the environment.

We are ruled by current political legislation and rightly or wrongly are literally running diesels out of town, so as buying punters we have to live with that and pay for it, whichever camp your in. 

A further point, a few weeks ago I was overtaken by an enthusiastically driven 69 plate diesel jag (a demonstrator all stickered up in the dealers livery) the whole rear of the vehicle was black with soot and everytime the driver got on the throttle there was loads of black smoke. Obviously there was something not right with it, or perhaps it had been "optimized" for demonstration purposes. Either way you don't tend to see many petrols rolling coal like that from any era...

 

Edited 25 November, 20196 yr by Gmac983

7 minutes ago, Gerrycan said:

So by your high standards maybe petrol engines should be equally vilified?

It is not high standards, I am not Greta. It is common sense. Diesels are highly polluting engines, followed by the petrol engines.

20 minutes ago, Gerrycan said:

Oh by the way what Euro standard do you think your old Felicia complies with and do you think that it offers acceptable emission levels for the general public to breathe?

The moment the law will forbid their circulation, I am prepared to buy a non-polluting car. For now my only duty is to keep the car well maintained so as to pass emissions test for its class according to factory specifications. I have tweaked the carburetor to pass Euro 3 emissions test. So rest assured, my conscience is clean, thank you very much.

 

On the other hand, not changing the car is not a decision people made in spite of all tree huggers or alienated teens. It has a major financial reason. People would buy electric cars but they are insanely expensive for their size. Not to mention the lack of infrastructure. It's people that buy new or almost new Diesel cars or trucks that make a poor decision, that is why they are on top of my list. I mean they have enough money to pay 30,000-40,000 Euro or more for a soot spewer yet they don't try at least a hybrid car. It is them that drive in style cancer-ash-spreading tractors.

On 06/11/2019 at 17:37, Sagalout said:

I see today that Bristol are planning to ban all PRIVATE diesel cars from certain areas at certain times from 2021 and all other diesel vehicles will have to pay a premium (probably quite hefty too) The future is here folks !

 

Who the hell wants to visit Bristol! The most unfriendly car city in the world.

8 minutes ago, Beachy said:

Who the hell wants to visit Bristol! The most unfriendly car city in the world.

Cough. Venice. Cough. 😁

Diesel engines are better for the long-term future of the planet due to lower CO2 output on average relative to petrol engines.

 

Petrol is better than diesel for densely populated areas where levels of soot and NOx may be an issue. 

 

Separate issues, different solutions. Better not to confuse the two under the misunderstanding that they are the same 'pollution'.

16 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

Cough. Venice. Cough. 😁

Venice must have very polluted air to make you cough so much. Damned diesels I'm sure

27 minutes ago, Beachy said:

Who the hell wants to visit Bristol! The most unfriendly car city in the world.

I live in the middle of the old city (BS1). I'm delighted by our mayor's environmentally-friendly and far-reaching eco-warrior stance. If it gets implemented (it won't BTW) I already have approval from SWMBO to replace my 190TDI with a 272TSI!

2 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

Venice must have very polluted air to make you cough so much. Damned diesels I'm sure

Yeah...the fumes from ice cream vans, selling all those Cornetto's

At least all those gondolas are fully renewably organic powered. 

1 minute ago, Gmac983 said:

At least all those gondolas are fully renewably organic powered. 

Have you never seen Moonraker?

22 minutes ago, BriskodaJeff said:

Have you never seen Moonraker?

 

Showing your age there Jeff!

3 minutes ago, Steviedakota said:

 

Showing your age there Jeff!

That’s nothing. When he first saw Lord of The Rings he thought Gandalf’s staff was leading edge tech 

 

Back to the original thread! 

 

I test drove a diesel mk3 and measured the volume inside on tickover, and was surprised that it was exactly the same as my 2009 Octy Diesel - about 48dB.  

 

Same thing in a petrol superb: 41dB.  That's MUCH quieter - especially considering the way that dB are measured.

Petrol is so much more refined, the other day I went to start the engine, the key did nothing. Turned out it was running already. Try that in a diesel!

 

3 hours ago, Steviedakota said:

 

Showing your age there Jeff!

 

3 hours ago, penguin17 said:

That’s nothing. When he first saw Lord of The Rings he thought Gandalf’s staff was leading edge tech 

 

Last Christmas chez BriskodaJeff.

 

 

Ungrateful git sometimes, my grandson. SWMBO had to go all the way to the hospital for that...

 

 

You should ALWAYS take the time to drive a diesel before you buy your petrol car.

5 minutes ago, Nick_H said:

You should ALWAYS take the time to drive a diesel before you buy your petrol car.

Good to remind yourself how slow and noisy the oil burner is before you make the SMART decision and buy the powerful but quiet proper engine (let's face it who wants a Dyson under the bonnet).

2 hours ago, Nick_H said:

You should ALWAYS take the time to drive a diesel before you buy your petrol car.

Enough time to appreciate the 700+ mile fuel range 😉