Seems I wasted my money on winter tyres. I always thought that they would grip better below 7'c regardless of snow. But aparently not!

 

 

I know its a 2 year old video and you may have seen it, but it was news to me and quite interesting. Maybe I'll not bother in future...

 

Nick

 

27 minutes ago, NikTheGeek said:

I know its a 2 year old video and you may have seen it, but it was news to me and quite interesting. Maybe I'll not bother in future...

 

I Know what winter tyres can do, every year I can feel and see what the car does, don't need a youtube video on a dry road to tell me what they can and cannot do,

Most of the rest of Europe have to have them on between certain months. October and March I believe. Regardless of snow or not. They do work better in temps below 7 degrees than summer tyres. 

@NikTheGeek

Just stick with your summer tyres on cold dry roads, and if it does get icy, or happen to snow where you are leave the car parked where it is.

It is not rocket science. Asda, Tesco, Waitrose, the Posty will deliver to your home, and the buses will be running or maybe not.

If in Devon wait a few hours and it will be Spring like again.

 

Much more to driving in winter than braking in a straight line, and that is winter where it gets cold.

There is going round bends / corners, roundabouts, changing lanes, crossing lanes with snow / slush on the lane edges, getting out of junctions, swerving those overshooting a stop sign etc.

Cold wet roads, even warm wet roads.

 

Then not all cars even new arrive in the UK with Quality Summer Tyres, they mostly have the main brands 'Eco' Tyres.

Basically what Dunlop, Continental, Pirelli etc supply manufacturers cheaply and that can have them getting the WLTP / RDE (RDE2) results required.

 

1st Vid.  Some in the UK actually do drive where there is snow for more than a few hours each winter, 

and where there can be days or weeks of around freezing air and ground temps.

 

Yes the first vid is on Snow, and he is saying 'Winter Tyres'.  All Season or All Weather might be just fine for many in the UK. 

That is not Summer Tyres, but then millions are on Summer Tyres.

 

Bottom vid.

He did this in 2018.

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 November, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

9 hours ago, NikTheGeek said:

Seems I wasted my money on winter tyres. I always thought that they would grip better below 7'c regardless of snow. But aparently not!

 

 

I know its a 2 year old video and you may have seen it, but it was news to me and quite interesting. Maybe I'll not bother in future...

 

Nick

😂 Not exactly scientific is it ?
He had wider rear summer tyres on for a start so had more rubber in contact with the road. The road surface looked treated with salt. It also appeared to me that it was new winter tyres v used summer tyres, I don’t know the exact effect (so I don’t make YouTube videos), but my limited knowledge suggests to me a tyre needs to be run in before it’s optimum grip is obtained.

I always run winter tyres. A couple of years ago I even had an 05 plate Micra as a second car, I fitted a set of cheap winter tyres which it ran all year round as I mainly used it for work in the winter. Many times Ive driven easily past lanes of stationary vehicles on icy, no snow, roads. 
If you look long enough on YouTube you’ll find any answer to anything....

 

And the other Nokian tyre reviewer emphasised that he braked tested from 60 to 5mph because the ABS was variable in its operation down to 0mph. A different rear tyre size is yet another variable.

Edited 17 November, 20196 yr by gregoir
Nokia/Nokian

I also think to be realistic the tyres should have been tested also on a wet road. Think the result may have been different. It would not have taken much to make the road wet. The west of scotland is not short of cold wet roads!!

He's replicated the only test where summers out perform winters.

 

In every other tested measure they fall behind.

He was also testing at well below freezing temperature. Can't have that cold AND wet.😉

 congrats, youtuber finds the 1% niche when summer tyres out perform winters in the winter. 

Use them or don't use them, the cold hard facts (excuse the pun) speak for themselves and majority of all season and winter tyre users are undeniably in favour of winter and all season tyres for cold weather (not necessarily snow and ice). 

Pointless and unhelpful thread IMO. 

Edited 17 November, 20196 yr by Gmac983

2 hours ago, gregoir said:

He was also testing at well below freezing temperature. Can't have that cold AND wet.😉

 

You can if the roads are salted, lowers the freezing point of water.

 

Sun can heat the tarmac melting the ice, thrown, splashed, dragged over the bits still frozen in the shade.

 

Heat from compression of the ice from the weight of the tyres can melt it on the driving line, 

 

Worst of all the sun can melt the top layer of ice leaving it frozen underneath, then you better pray you are on winter tyres.

Off the point. The focus is on winter tyres on dry , clean roads at low temperatures. No salt, no ice, no snow. I'm aware of the effects of grit, rock salt, pure salt and brine sprays. They can make the road slippier than dry roads.

Also further to the irrelevance of this thread. The Bridgestone re71r summer tyres that he is using are an "extreme performance summer tyre" (manufacturers quote) and are basically for fast road and track day usage, hence have a softer/stickier rubber compound than a more conventional ordinary summer tyre that most would buy. So in the cold but crucially dry conditions in the test (also it looked a fairly decent and clean road surface as well) it was possible for them to out perform a winter tyre. Through some moisture into that mix and he would have been floundering. 

2 hours ago, gregoir said:

Off the point.

 

No perfectly on the point, you said 

 

4 hours ago, gregoir said:

Can't have that cold AND wet.😉

 

You can

My Michelin Pilot Super Sports are great in the summer once warmed up, not so good when it's cold, and downright 'entertaining' when it's cold and wet. I pulled into a big empty car park last week, whilst it was very cold and extremely wet and saw some colleagues in the distance. Naturally I wanted to make an entrance so turned the wheel and gave the throttle an extra inch of 'GO' just a little blip really. instead of the expected slight twitch at the rear (of the car) I executed a perfect 180     LSD and RWD helped it to do that, but the extremely low grip afforded by my tyres helped more. I'm fairly confident if I had winter tyres on that would not have happened. My colleagues thought I'd just pulled a handbrake turn as I hadn't had to gun the engine to spin my car around  

 

I should add I did think it might go round at the back quite a bit, hence I did it in a big empty car park 

 

I'm a big fan of Winter tyres, and have been in several situations when driving to or from a place of work, often in the dead of the night, I have come across a hazard that would have made me sleep the rest of the night in the car if I was on summer tyres. More than once I have pushed peoples cars up a hill (not on my own of course) and then jumped back in my car and driven easily away.  In fact a few years ago I battled through snow coming out of Birmingham and when I got to my hotel, I found I was the only person who had actually managed to check in that night. Just me and the receptionist in the reasonably large hotel (sounds a bit like Psycho!). In a perfect world I wouldn't have to use my car as often as I do in poor conditions, but my job forces this upon me. You could say is it worth it just to drive in snow for 20 minutes in a whole year? but if that 20 minutes is the hill that means you spend the night in your car or making it home or to safety, i'm happy to go with the winter tyres. 

 

There has been endless debate here and elsewhere about, "while you wear out your winter tyres you aren't wearing out your summer tyres, hence it doesn't really cost much more to buy them", but for me the truth is I am fallible. Sometimes I do enter a corner too quickly and rely on my car's grip to see around the bend or perhaps brake as an unexpected hazard appears. On summer tyres in cold weather that might mean a bump whereas with winters I might 'get away with it' . There are many other scenarios where that little bit of extra help might be worth it. After all, if we were all such good drivers, we wouldn't need ABS, collision avoidance, blind spot warning, radar supported braking etc etc. I'm happy to carry on with winters, although this year I am thinking about trying the latest all seasons, which appear to specialise in winter performance 

 on the allseasons. Have used them for a number of years and find them to be excellent allrounders (as you would expect from products badge as all season or crossclimate). Ideal for the majority of UK motorists the majority of the time. If you are a high mileage user then it's justifiable to change onto winters (or if the part of blighty you live in has particularly tricky winter conditions) otherwise allseasons are the fellows to be on. You'll wonder why you weren't using them before!

Post moved.

 

 

 

Edited 18 November, 20196 yr by gregoir
Moved

^^^why move your post it was relevant here too... Anyway... Yes as someone commented else where on this subject. The problem with all season and winter tyres is people who don't use them. All it needs is a couple of people to get into difficulty and main roads/motorways grind to a hault. 

However staying at home evertime there is a touch of frost or a few flakes of snow is not exactly viable either. 

Edited 18 November, 20196 yr by Gmac983

I'll stick with my summer tyres

I've used to work in the Alps (10+ years, driving all winter) and always arrived to start the season early in December, and believe me that good brand 'A' rated summer tyres in the sub 7C cold (even if dry and snow free) are just carp for grip, lots of spin, torque steer and twitchy braking, the compounds are just too hard. First job was always the snow tyres, the difference is astonishing on any state of road, except sheet ice, but that's what chains are for (or studded tyres if you're a Scandiwegian).

 

In my first year in the Alps I was driving a VX Signum, and even with well fitted, and tightened chains, I just couldn't get the car up a shallow driveway (chain broke as too much torque) - the following year on snow tyres I got up the same drive towing a small trailer AND without the chains. My work van out there was 1.6L Berlingo size and I could get up most Alpine roads on just snowies - passing most everything, lots of 4WD even M&S shod ones - if your tyres don't have the snowflake symbol on they aren't worth having.

Oh and snowsocks are just beyond funny, they only work in 'perfect' snow (think how a wooly glove sticks to a snowball) so OK when fresh/half wet but not when icy or slushy - but they also squirm off all too easily under power on a turn - and mountains have hairpins...

 

won't give this any credit unless I know more about the brand of tyre used .. not all tyres are the same, be it summer. winter. all season etc.

Yes work better below about +7c   (exact temperature depends on brand and formulation)

 

There are some suggestions better below about +9 than Eco summer tyres

 

 

I had Gislaved on the Signum, and one of the vans I think had them too, the rest of the vans had Euro sourced tyres so probably Michelin/Conti, I'd never spec a tyre below B & B for wet and fuel, and no matter the brand they had to have a snowflake symbol to be legal in winter. Back in the day some oafs would take wheel trims off to make it look like winter wheels are fitted, sometimes worked getting beyond first local plod (only if not GB) but if you got stuck beyond there you'd be plouged off the road (maybe towed) and most definitely prosecuted. Biggest mistake France makes is having some regions that allow 'snow tyres' instead of chains as that leads to people 'risking it' on M&S/all season/crap(bald) winter tyres, and so not having chains.

On 26/11/2019 at 21:11, Smileyman said:

won't give this any credit unless I know more about the brand of tyre used .. not all tyres are the same, be it summer. winter. all season etc.

 

Absolutely, I'd have loved to see it between Continental TS860 and Michelin Pilot Sport. I see that twice a year and 

 

The Pilot Sport 4 is the reason I do not use winter or all season tyres in the summer.

 

The TS860 is the tyre that makes me take the Pilot Sport 4 off when it gets cold

 

Same between the Pilot Sport 4S and the TS860S on another machine I have

As for snow socks. If someone needs to just get a few yards or even a few miles. They work. Get you to a clear road etc, where putting snow chains on then off is a PITA. Emergency use, but actually posties, RAC, AA, Greenflag etc drivers sometimes use them.  That is where the bosses put them out with crap tyres expecting them to recover people on crap tyres.