Did our Fabia 1.2 clutch replacers cause the engine timing to go out?

[Damo152003]

Wow ive worked in the trade for 15 years and your  posts are sending my brain all over the shop lol  

I work at a ford dealership and there is no mention on ford procedures about NOT turning the engine counter clock wise. We /i have fitted 100s of clutches and never had an issue even on other brand of vehicles. 

Firstly we have had issues where the pic up for the crank is on the flywheel and where a few options are available the incorrect one has been fitted and caused running issues.

By the sounds of it i think you are going struggle to prove whats happened. 

 

Edited 17 December, 2019 by Damo152003

[NeilTM]

17 hours ago, Damo152003 said:

Wow ive worked in the trade for 15 years and your  posts are sending my brain all over the shop lol  

I work at a ford dealership and there is no mention on ford procedures about NOT turning the engine counter clock wise. We /i have fitted 100s of clutches and never had an issue even on other brand of vehicles. 

Firstly we have had issues where the pic up for the crank is on the flywheel and where a few options are available the incorrect one has been fitted and caused running issues.

By the sounds of it i think you are going struggle to prove whats happened. 

 

Thanks for checking Damo.

 

We read about a Ford Transit that this was an issue with:

https://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=105454&c=1

 

But in general it seems to be only a few engines where a worn TC tensioner can slacken the chain sufficiently to jump a tooth if turned backwards.

 

The 1.2 engine in the Fabia is listed here as one of the worst 7 car engines for reliability because of the timing chain failing:

https://drivemag.com/news/seven-engines-to-avoid-when-buying-second-hand-cars

Which whatever the shortcomings of that particular survey might be is at least suggestive that a generalist garage is likely to have encountered or at least heard about this problem, on what seems to be quite a popular car on the road, and should be aware of these risks.

And here, https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/most-reliable-engines/

and in other surveys VAG cars have the worst engine reliability ratings apart from MG Rover, but they're long gone now, so they, or more specifically the Audi part of VAG are the worst there is apparently, averaged over a makers entire range of engines, based on interrogating Warranty Direct's claims database, so obviously some good, some bad amongst that lot for any maker. VW themselves come ninth worst, but Skoda specifically isn't listed in that summary, not all cars are represented in that survey if the numbers of them insured with them are too low, not to have the potential to constitute an inadequate sample and skew the results.  With BMW not that far behind with TC issues of their own, not least having to hike the entire engine out of a car to get to their troublesome TC!  Only Mercedes seems to redeem the Germans at third best.

[Damo152003]

The transit engines do have issues with chains stretching on high mileage engines but fitting solid flywheels on theses causes horrible noises and the thought of the vibrations going through the crank /timing chain is something i would want on mine.

I had a 4 year old bmw 120d that needed a new timing chain and crank £4500 job! Bmw are crap for chains.

I had a fabia monte carlo with the 1.2 tsi i really liked the engine. Bit underpowered but everyday to day was spot on. 

[TMB]

..............

Edited 31 January, 2021 by TMB

[NeilTM]

12 hours ago, Damo152003 said:

I had a fabia monte carlo with the 1.2 tsi i really liked the engine. Bit underpowered but everyday to day was spot on. 

 

Yes, perfectly adequate power and the engine itself ran fine, and quietly - right up until we left it with Mr Clutch ;-)

 

Only needs one weak link in a chain to spoilt the entire chain.  And sometimes the entire chain is the weak link it seems.  Far too many horrific weak links in cars these daze IMO.

[Breezy_Pete]

Some stuff about the chain tensioner as promised, somewhat belatedly, here: https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/475605-inside-the-12-htp-chain-tensioner/

 

[lello7]

Did this get resolved? How much damage was there in the engine..since the timing was of.

My chain also skipped...

[Breezy_Pete]

I haven't heard from @NeilTM for a while, but last I heard there were still multiple faults and running problems. 

 

It's since become clear to me that on the twin-cam, 12-valve versions of the HTP engines, valve damage should be expected with timing chain slips.

 

I expect the 6-valve versions will be less likely to suffer such damage. Which is yours @lello7?

 

Easy way to tell is what colour the 'p' of htp is on the back of the car. Black-6v, red-12v.

[lello7]

It is unfortunately a 12V CGPa engine. I will hope that NeilTM would have his way here soon so we can know. It has slipped one tooth on the lower sprocket, left parked in uphill with gear..160000km..MIL went on after 5km..first DTC light came one..

[lello7]

Its a 2011 Fabia "Combi", fully serviced. Htp 1.2 3 cylinder 12v engine.(cpga).

Have had it for 11 months and i am the second owner.

Last oilchange was 2020 Mars.(oilfilter,5w40 oil, airfilter)

[sepulchrave]

One tooth on the crank sprocket is valve damage for certain. Sorry.

[lello7]

What will i expect to change, beside the 12 valves?

(And the chain offcource)

[Breezy_Pete]

Exhaust valve guides if they have too much wear?

[lello7]

Are they difficult to change? Already got a quot for 12 valves and chain with sprockets:-)

Should i change 6 valve guides or 12?

Labour is insane here, 1150£ without parts..for the timing chain and new valves.

Parts will be aprox 750£ from germany. Mayby i should create a new topic :-)

[Breezy_Pete]

Intake valve guides will have no wear, I think. 

[lello7]

Car done now. Thanks Wino.