Fuel consumption.

[Rockinghorse]

Hi Widescreen

 

That's great and I would be more than happy with that consumption, but my car is clearly not right as I can't get anywhere near that. It's clear that this engine varies considerably as some people state that their engine is so quiet and gives good mpg. Mine is noisy, rough and lousey on fuel but the dealership says it's fine. I don't know where to go accept change the car.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Rockinghorse said:

Hi Widescreen

 

That's great and I would be more than happy with that consumption, but my car is clearly not right as I can't get anywhere near that. It's clear that this engine varies considerably as some people state that their engine is so quiet and gives good mpg. Mine is noisy, rough and lousey on fuel but the dealership says it's fine. I don't know where to go accept change the car.

 

Why not ask the dealer for a test drive in another car with the same engine and compare the noise level and how rough/smooth it is?

[Rockinghorse]

The one I test drove before buying mine was so quiet I could barely tell it was running and as smooth as silk - a different animal.

My dealer will just say they can't tell the difference.

[Gerrycan]

59 minutes ago, Rockinghorse said:

The one I test drove before buying mine was so quiet I could barely tell it was running and as smooth as silk - a different animal.

My dealer will just say they can't tell the difference.

Reject the car, it's their problem then, after all there is 'nothing wrong' with it according to them.

[KenONeill]

@Widescreen - I'm not sure what you think you've proved? My commute to work is about 11 miles and ends with half a mile up a steep hill. When/if collecting people from the ferry port, I do more like 22 miles on a more or less flat road, the first half being my commute minus the hill climb.

 

I arrive at the ferry port showing about 50 miles more available range than I left home with. I interpret that as meaning that the road is easier rather than that I/the car is deliberately driven more economically.

[shyVRS245]

Bizarre thing happened at 05:20 this morning with just 60 miles range of fuel left and having a Tesco 5 pence per litre fuel voucher to use by the 27th February (next 2 days) and facing a 54 mile commute I thought it would be sensible to put £10 of Shell V-Power Nitro (99 octane) in my car to get me to the Tesco garage tomorrow which is 4 miles in the wrong direction from my house. So as I pulled into the Shell garage with 487 miles driven and the car averaging 36.1mpg on this tank, no problen just put £10 in. Wait for the attendant to reset the pump and put just over 7 litres of the good stuff in (just over 7 litres) and go into the shop to pay. Didn't need a receipt so told the guy pump 11 and gave him £10 note. Get back in the car and driving up the road and notice the low fuel range warning light is still on and my range is still 55 miles. At this point I should have headed back to the garage to complain about not getting any fuel but I would have been late for work. So I ring them when I get to work and take a photo from the computer of the miles since refuelling which is now 512 and car driven for 13 hours 31 minutes since last fuelled. The Manager said she would check my claim of no fuel and would ring me back. A few minutes later she rang to say the pump had delivered just over 7 litres of fuel to my car. I say it that is the case then I would have a range of 110 miles and 13 litres in my tank yet my range after driving the 25 miles to work was now 35 miles. Told her about the computer confirming no fuel also and she was adamant I had fuel. So now I have a nervous 31 mile drive to the Tesco garage to get a tank of Momentum but with Shell having ripped me off to the tune of £10. Already put a complaint into Shell UK Customer Services who claim they will investigate the garage in Coalville concerned. I told her if this matter is not resolved quickly and to my satisfaction then the Police (Fraud), Trading Standards and the Press WILL BE CONTACTED. If my computer is accurate then I should run out of fuel at 523 miles or in 11 miles time because I have now driven 512 miles.

[xman]

😂😂😂 

 

As usual @shyVRS245 shows his ignorance and lack of knowledge even after decades of driving VAG cars.

 

Vag fuel gauges simply dont react immediately to a meagre 10 per cent fill, they will adjust slowly over the next few dozen miles. They do that to stop every incline, or your ludicrous acceleration stunts making it go up and down like a dogs willy.

 

Only time it reacts immediately to a refill is if the refill quantity is significant, eg 1/3 or more or if its nearly full anyway.

 

Impossible for petrol pumps to read and deliver nothing

 

Ring those poor guys back that you insulted and threatened and apologise. 

 

Edited 25 February, 2020 by xman

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Rockinghorse said:

The one I test drove before buying mine was so quiet I could barely tell it was running and as smooth as silk - a different animal.

My dealer will just say they can't tell the difference.

 

That's certainly not the attitude I'd take.

 

First of all you're speculating what the dealer will say which is wrong.  Secondly, you're being overly negative. If there's such a huge difference then they simply can't deny it, if they did then I'd write to the dealer principal telling them I'm going to pay for a 3rd party engineer to check the car, and we'd take it from there.

 

 

[J.R.]

I think you must have been tired when you filled up and perhaps still are suffering from sleep deprivation Shy.

 

You would immediately feel if no fuel was being delivered and I am reasonably sure that you will have had your 7 litres, you can also feel the inertia of the fuel kicking the nozzle forward when you stop the fuel delivery.

 

5.20 in the morning is probably the favorite time for misfuelling vehicles, petrol instead of diesel etc.

 

I can confirm that when topping up the tank if the ignition is switched on and the vehicle left stationary for say 5 or 10 minutes then the guage will gradually react and the available range will gradually increase, when you are driving it uses an average reading with a lot of damping (wrong phrase) applied.

 

Having run my vehicle completely empty on a test, then adding 5l the driving a short distance to fill up I know just how hard it is for the sender to register 5 or in your case 7 litres spread across the bottom of an empty tank.

 

I had driven over 100 miles with zero range showing, ran the tank dry and put in 5 litres from my reserve jerrycan, I waited and eventually the range went up to 40 miles, TBH I was amazed as I didnt even expect it to register anything, however driving 4km to the fuel station the range dropped to 20 then to 0 miles before I had even got halfway there.

[KenONeill]

I've never put "that little fuel" into an empty(ish) tank. I have filled my tank until the pressure trigger clicks off; at this point the tank reads maybe 7/8, and over the next 12 hours or so it rises from there to 8/8. Either my car makes fuel (unlikely) or the gauge is slow to react fully to changes in tank level (much more likely).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

 I told her if this matter is not resolved quickly and to my satisfaction then the Police (Fraud), Trading Standards and the Press WILL BE CONTACTED.

 

FFS man....   I've heard of waffle ( I'm as guilty as anyone ) but do we really need to know you filled up at pump 11 ?  

 

Can't believe you actually contacted the petrol station and then Shell Customer services telling them you'll report them to the police.    

 

Before you next fill your car up, let the range go down to 60 miles range and take a note of the computer readout. Then go to a BP garage, put in 7 gallons of fuel, drive off and check the computer readout and compare it to your expectations.  You'll be able to sue BP too !!! 

 

I regularly use hire cars and depending on the fuel policy, only top up with a little amount of fuel when returning the car.  I can't tell you how many times I've stuck just a small amount of fuel in to a car only to find it's made no difference to the computer. In fact a few weeks ago, when returning a Renault to Glasgow Airport, I put £10 worth of fuel at the garage in Paisley ( about 1 mile away from the rental office ) and the computer reported LESS range. I do however keep my receipts.

 

PS - why not report Skoda to Trading Standards whilst your at it for supplying a car with an inaccurate computer readout? 

[shyVRS245]

19 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I think you must have been tired when you filled up and perhaps still are suffering from sleep deprivation Shy.

 

You would immediately feel if no fuel was being delivered and I am reasonably sure that you will have had your 7 litres, you can also feel the inertia of the fuel kicking the nozzle forward when you stop the fuel delivery.

 

5.20 in the morning is probably the favorite time for misfuelling vehicles, petrol instead of diesel etc.

 

I can confirm that when topping up the tank if the ignition is switched on and the vehicle left stationary for say 5 or 10 minutes then the guage will gradually react and the available range will gradually increase, when you are driving it uses an average reading with a lot of damping (wrong phrase) applied.

 

Having run my vehicle completely empty on a test, then adding 5l the driving a short distance to fill up I know just how hard it is for the sender to register 5 or in your case 7 litres spread across the bottom of an empty tank.

 

I had driven over 100 miles with zero range showing, ran the tank dry and put in 5 litres from my reserve jerrycan, I waited and eventually the range went up to 40 miles, TBH I was amazed as I didnt even expect it to register anything, however driving 4km to the fuel station the range dropped to 20 then to 0 miles before I had even got halfway there.

Had 6 litres in the tank when they charged me for 7 litres of fresh air despite the pump counting upto £10. I looked at the price £1.419 per litre and just over 7 litre dispensed. In 37 years driving all over the world this is the first time I have been charged for no fuel given. Range was 55 miles before filling, was still 55 miles after I left the garage and had I realised Shell would kick up such a fuss over a paltry £10 having spent many thousands with them over the years of running high performance cars I woulsd have straight back and complained. Will NEVER EVER use Shell again after this diabolical episode and NO I wasn't tired just a dodgy pump that was counting but not dispensing. 25 miles after leaving the garage driving very slowly I had 35 miles left and a photo I took confirms refuelling did not happen.

[xman]

9 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Had 6 litres in the tank when they charged me for 7 litres of fresh air despite the pump counting upto £10. I looked at the price £1.419 per litre and just over 7 litre dispensed. In 37 years driving all over the world this is the first time I have been charged for no fuel given. Range was 55 miles before filling, was still 55 miles after I left the garage and had I realised Shell would kick up such a fuss over a paltry £10 having spent many thousands with them over the years of running high performance cars I woulsd have straight back and complained. Will NEVER EVER use Shell again after this diabolical episode and NO I wasn't tired just a dodgy pump that was counting but not dispensing. 25 miles after leaving the garage driving very slowly I had 35 miles left and a photo I took confirms refuelling did not happen.

 

Good luck with the embarrassing time in court, hope you avoid a criminal conviction, demanding money with menaces I think they call it. If you go through with your previous threats to go public, I'm sure you'll be held liable for slander. Hope your pockets are deep.

Edited 25 February, 2020 by xman

[xman]

I suggest @shyVRS245 go to his Tesco today, and pop in just 7 litres of fuel. Then go and apologise to everyone he upset.

Edited 25 February, 2020 by xman

[xman]

1 minute ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@shyVRS245

 

Where was this Shell Filling station only charging 114.9 pence a litre for Shell V-Power Nitro+.   Much Cheapness, best read that receipt again.

Do they even take that little for Shell Fuelsave?

 

That is the Asda / Tesco 95 Ron Unleaded cost,  99 Momentum 5 pence more.  

 

Another who is still asleep, he said 1.419

 

Around here both Sainsbury's and Tesco have a 7p premium on super fuels for a couple of months now.

[Ootohere]

@xman & @shyVRS245

Sorry i should of had specs on.  i misread the price paid.  

 

@xman

No idea where around here is,

but around the Tesco Filling stations i go to the difference stays at 5 pence from 95 ron to 99 ron.

 

Edited 25 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[xman]

It impossible for a modern forecourt pump to not deliver fuel but tally a delivery. They use a positive displacement metering device and are extremely secure against tampering. They are also extremely precise. I once challenged when a pump had a dicky, intermittently showing display. The attendant then obligingly took out a fancy stanless steel container with sightglass and calibration stickers. And dispensed exactly iirc 10 litres on the pump. Despite the dodgy display, it was accurate bang on the sightglass reading to better than the 10ml graduations.

 

They are also regularly calibrated and checked by local standards office, look for the sticker on the pump.

[shyVRS245]

Lorry driver told me It's possible the pump is faulty and if other customers complain they will soon put an OUT OF ORDER sign on it.

[xman]

1 minute ago, shyVRS245 said:

Lorry driver told me It's possible the pump is faulty and if other customers complain they will soon put an OUT OF ORDER sign on it.

 

More likely everyone knows how your car develops 450bhp and god knows how many american ft-lbs but still does 199 mpg so maybe they thought you wouldn't notice.....

 

[shyVRS245]

Just realised why I didn't get any fuel this morning. It was either xman pressing the buttons in the shop or my clothes were too heavy and I couldn't lift the heavy fuel nozzle.

[J.R.]

Once the (I hope misplaced) anger has passed Shy, I suggest that you do exactly the same thing, fill up with 7 litres at another garage with the same range remaining, drive a similar journey i.e. motorway, uphill, urban, and watch the range like a hawk and I'm sure you will see the same phenomenon occur, its to do with the vehicle indicating a truish range when you fill up (assuming that the actual consumption has been corrected within VDCS or is correct) and by the time you get down to the last 7 litres the guage will show empty and zero miles.

 

I have seen with my own eyes what happens when you put 5 litres in an empty tank, it will initially show it if you wait on the flat and/or drive very gently but within a couple of miles it will have magically dissapeared in order to give you once again this hypothetical reserve capacity.

 

You dont come across as senile so I truly believe that if the pump was pumping air you would have felt it immediately, had you put 70 litres in and the pump only delivered 60 then yes, you would be none the wiser initally.

 

I really do think that you are over-reacting and if you take the time to consider how the hypothetical reserve capacity works, how your vehicle shows a true range when brimmed of (for example) 600 miles, you can drive 400 and still see 1/3 of a tank on the guage and 200 miles remaining and in another 100 miles see the guage drop to zero and the MFD show zero range remaining. Once you get your head around why and when that happens the penny should drop as to why when you looked there was no extra range showing for your 7l top up, it may well have showed before.

 

Do the same again and watch it like a hawk.

[xman]

22 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Just realised why I didn't get any fuel this morning. It was either xman pressing the buttons in the shop or my clothes were too heavy and I couldn't lift the heavy fuel nozzle.

 

I did notice you first tried plugging your car into the rapid charger, then scratching your head while looking at the lpg pump.

 

I expect your number plate is now on the Shell do not serve apnr database 

[J.R.]

If you fill to the brim today and do some calculations then you will know for sure.

 

I believe that you keep detailed fuel consumption figures.

[shyVRS245]

8 minutes ago, J.R. said:

If you fill to the brim today and do some calculations then you will know for sure.

 

I believe that you keep detailed fuel consumption figures.

Wouldn't surprise me if I get at least 65 litres into the 66 litre tank. Will update here later today.

[Ootohere]

Simples. 

65 litre is the tank,  (45 litre tank being 45 litres, and a 55 litre being 55 litres)

then  at least another 7 litres brimming, (up the pipe)  and that is without 'venting'

Edited 25 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot