Torsion Beam rear end Estate handling

[fabdavrav]

2 hours ago, Scot5 said:

 

Mk7 Golf is just like the Octavia - torsion beam on lesser models multi-link on higher end. 

 

 

The "cut-off" point is different.....

 

MK3 Octavia which got the multilink rear:- VRS, L&K, & all AWD versions….

 

MK7 Golf which got the multilink rear:- ALL cars with 122PS & over......so even a lowly 1.4lt in basic "S" spec got it......my 1.4lt 140PS GT MK7 Golf estate got it...& yet the same engine in the MK3 Octavia didn't get it!

 

I include a screengrab of the 2016 brochure...

 

Edited 6 January, 2020 by fabdavrav

[MC Bodge]

9 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

The "cut-off" point is different.....

 

MK3 Octavia which got the multilink rear:- VRS, L&K, & all AWD versions….

 

MK7 Golf which got the multilink rear:- ALL cars with 122PS & over......so even a lowly 1.4lt is basic "S" spec got it......

 

I include a screengrab of the 2016 brochure...

 

It's a shame, but few owners will have noticed the handling, although I'm sure that quite a few will have noticed the ride/noise over small bumps and ripples. 

 

Is the IRS much better? 

Edited 6 January, 2020 by MC Bodge

[fabdavrav]

Just now, MC Bodge said:

 

 

Is the IRS much better? 

 

YES!!….

 

But it depends on the sort of driver you are....I drive my cars & having the A939 as your "local" road ….I drive in a certain way & demand a certain amount from my car.

When I was looking at the MK3 Octavia & MK7 Golf, the lack of multilink rear on what is a large car, put me off the Octavia...I didn't want the heavy weight of AWD or fast 2lt engines...& I like my license!!

 

Nice lightweight nose with a peppy turbocharged 1.4lt in the estate ...makes for almost a 50/50 weight balance....& keen handling especially on the factory lowered sports suspension & 225mm wide tyres on lightweight 17" rims...

[Rodge]

4 hours ago, Scot5 said:

Where your comparison is unfair is that whilst the Fords are great at handling, they're probably one of the worst cars I've owned when it comes to uneaven road surface or pot holes - talk about crashing thru pot holes! At times I thought the suspension had collapsed. I was on very friendly terms with my chiropractor and dentist when I owned those Fords. The point is you can have a car that excels at one thing ( at least not without suspension wizardry) but if I were to own a car for all round comfort, then after a change of the factory fitted tyres, the Octavia is mighty impressive.

My ordinary petrol 1.6 Ghia Mk 1 Focus with standard suspension and 15" alloys has much better ride and handling than my Octavia. Unless your Fords had sports suspension or they were Fiesta based cars then your experience differs from what most people report. My Octavia is terrible over uneven surfaces and potholes.

Watch out if it's the latest Focus because just like Octavia, torsion beam on the lesser models, multi-link on higher end.

And the current generation American designed Mondeo is apparently terrible too. :-(

[themanwithnoaim]

1 hour ago, MC Bodge said:

 

Is the IRS much better? 

 

It's quite well known that I pushed my little 1.4tsi harder than most, I did have a 22mm Whiteline RARB fitted, then adjusted, then removed. The over stiffened rear end was far less tolerant than the OEM setup & the liftoff oversteer was far more pronounced, flatout in the OEM setup needed brakes as well as liftoff to induce oversteer, the RARB didn't need even a touch of the brakes.

 

Whilst I agree, the OEM setup feels vague & skippy, it never did throw the car offline, you just gotta believe the backend is gonna follow '& keep your foot in it

[Kental]

Audi on the A3 fit multilink across the board on MQB, VW on Golf VII everything except 1.0 & 1.6 TDI have multilink, Skoda & Seat need 4x4 or in excess of 150hp.

 

As an ex Mondeo IV (3 of them), Focus III 1.0 (so still multilink) & a Kuga, Ford's suspension is far superior, even my last car a Kia Niro had multilink, however that felt even more jumpy on mid corner bumps as the Octavia so multilink is not the answer to everything.

 

My first Mondeo IV was a 10 plate Titanium X with 18" rims & quite soft springs (back in the days ETIS would tell you everything). The thing Ford do so well is damper & spring matching so even if you have a soft ride there is still absolutely no float. By comparison, other manufacturers these days appear to grab what they have in stock.

[MC Bodge]

1 hour ago, Kental said:

As an ex Mondeo IV (3 of them), Focus III 1.0 (so still multilink) & a Kuga, Ford's suspension is far superior, even my last car a Kia Niro had multilink, however that felt even more jumpy on mid corner bumps as the Octavia so multilink is not the answer to everything.

 

My first Mondeo IV was a 10 plate Titanium X with 18" rims & quite soft springs (back in the days ETIS would tell you everything). The thing Ford do so well is damper & spring matching so even if you have a soft ride there is still absolutely no float.

In the past 20 years or so, we (me, wife or parents) have had a Mk1 Mondeo 2.0, Mk2 Mondeo, Mk1 Focus Zetec, Mk3 Mondeo GhiaX , Mk4 Mondeo Edge, C-Max, Mk5? Fiesta Zetec, Mk3 Focus 1.0 125, Mk7 Fiesta 1.0 100.  

 

All of which have driven and rode really well (even a Mk1 Fabia wasn't bad). The cars I have owned that haven't had very good ride and handling characteristics are a Mk1 Octavia vRS and a Mk3 Octavia 1.4TSI. The Mk1 Mondeo in the mid 90s was probably better. Going from the vRS to a Mk3 Mondeo diesel was a revelation in handling. 

 

Ps. The Octavia engines were both great, though. The vRS was remapped and went like stink. 

[Gerrycan]

I must be less sensitive to these things than others as I consider the ride and handling on my 1.4tsi estate pretty good on tarmac. It does struggle with sharp joints where both rear wheels hit at the same time but I have been in much more expensive cars, with irs, that were better but not as much as their price should have provided.

My old mk2 with irs and 15 inch wheels handled corrugated aussie dirt roads much better than the mk3 with rear beam and 17 inch wheels but that is to be expected.

I have only driven a previous gen Ford Focus presumably with irs but did not think its ride was noticeably better.

The best ride I have experienced recently in a reasonably priced vehicle was a Subaru Outback.

[Kental]

3 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

In the past 20 years or so, we (me, wife or parents) have had a Mk1 Mondeo 2.0, Mk2 Mondeo, Mk1 Focus Zetec, Mk3 Mondeo GhiaX , Mk4 Mondeo Edge, C-Max, Mk5? Fiesta Zetec, Mk3 Focus 1.0 125, Mk7 Fiesta 1.0 100.  

 

All of which have driven and rode really well (even a Mk1 Fabia wasn't bad). The cars I have owned that haven't had very good ride and handling characteristics are a Mk1 Octavia vRS and a Mk3 Octavia 1.4TSI. The Mk1 Mondeo in the mid 90s was probably better. Going from the vRS to a Mk3 Mondeo diesel was a revelation in handling. 

 

Ps. The Octavia engines were both great, though. The vRS was remapped and went like stink. 

 

We currently have a 18 plate KA+ (Fiesta 5 door based rather than the 3 door Fiat based one) and the handling & ride on the whole is pretty good, but sharp speed bumps affect the back really badly, much worse than our daughter's 108.

 

Personally I was never a fan of the Mondeo mk3 (my brother had a 2.0 TDCi Ghia X), I found it too firm & the controls were too heavy, Although not as bad as the 12 plate 320D he had later.  I found the pre facelift Mondeo mk4 140 TDCi to be a fantastic car for nearly all occasions. I fitted progressive rear springs to help when towing and it was just so stable.

 

I then had 2 facelift mk4s, a 163 manual which was great if you were driving like it was on fire, but frustrating to drive slowly, just huge flat spots.  I replaced that with a 140ps TDCi powershift which was great and importantly a very relaxing towcar. 

 

Once the caravan went, I downgraded to the Focus 1.0 Titanium X, I good introduction to my 1.0 Octavia (save the rear suspension).....

[MC Bodge]

1 hour ago, Kental said:

Personally I was never a fan of the Mondeo mk3 (my brother had a 2.0 TDCi Ghia X), I found it too firm & the controls were too heavy, Although not as bad as the 12 plate 320D he had later.  I found the pre facelift Mondeo mk4 140 TDCi to be a fantastic car for nearly all occasions. I fitted progressive rear springs to help when towing and it was just so stable.

 

I then had 2 facelift mk4s, a 163 manual which was great if you were driving like it was on fire, but frustrating to drive slowly, just huge flat spots.  I replaced that with a 140ps TDCi powershift which was great and importantly a very relaxing towcar. 

My Ghia X TDCI 130 Mk3  was very good, although the engine wasn't great. My Mk4 140TDCi was a bit less nimble, due to the size, but rode very well and always remained composed, so it could be cruised along comfortably or hustled very rapidly on a bumpy, twisty road. The 140 engine was excellent - tractable from tickover and kept up with the Germans on the autobahn. It also drove really well even fully laden with family and camping gear. The brakes were also very good. 

 

The Octavia was, sadly, a definite step-down, other than in "infotainment"/connectivity, front seat support and ease of parking. 

[Ecomatt]

What i am getting from this topic is that people should have purchased a mondeo instead of the Octavia 🤣

[classic]

3 minutes ago, Ecomatt said:

What i am getting from this topic is that people should have purchased a mondeo instead of the Octavia 🤣

And need to somehow justify changing out of the Octavia to their respective other halves, who think they’ve already got a perfectly good car.

[KenONeill]

16 minutes ago, Ecomatt said:

people should have purchased a mondeo instead of the Octavia

OTOH, at least one of these people thinks a V@u*h@11 1n$19n1@ is a good car, so should be ignored...

[MC Bodge]

45 minutes ago, classic said:

And need to somehow justify changing out of the Octavia to their respective other halves, who think they’ve already got a perfectly good car.

Correct!

32 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

OTOH, at least one of these people thinks a V@u*h@11 1n$19n1@ is a good car, so should be ignored...

I didn't quite say that. 

[fabdavrav]

1 hour ago, Ecomatt said:

What i am getting from this topic is that people should have purchased a Mondeo MK7 Golf Estate instead of the Octavia 🤣

 

Fixed that for you...….as the 1.4lt & 1.5lt come with the multilink rear

[Llwyngwernog]

My wife and I really like everything about our Octavia .....quiet comfortable spacious economical etc etc.

The Octavia we drive is absolutely as it came from the factory and will remain so.

That means we will not have to go through the hassle of informing our insurers of every minor or major change to standard specification.

I presume all those on this site who make changes negotiate with the insurers before undertaking any modifications.

Regards

[MC Bodge]

21 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

My wife and I really like everything about our Octavia .....quiet comfortable spacious economical etc etc.

 

I presume all those on this site who make changes negotiate with the insurers before undertaking any modifications.

 

That's good that you are happy with the car. Not everybody is interested in driving dynamics, as I conceded early in the thread. 

 

Re: Insurance, I'm sure that people do declare mods. 

[Kental]

I have no wish to upgrade/mod my Octavia. I was just saying in that one aspect Fords of a certain era were a cut above base Octavias & current Focuses as they too have gone Torsion beam on petrol hatches (non ST). 
I am not saying a mk3 Focus was a better car, it was ridiculously cramped for its size & cabin quality far far below Octavia. However the bean counters have got in &  chopped the across the board multilink rear that both the Focus 1-3 & Octavia 2 possessed.

[logiclee]

4 hours ago, Kental said:

 

 

 

Personally I was never a fan of the Mondeo mk3 (my brother had a 2.0 TDCi Ghia X), I found it too firm & the controls were too heavy,

 

For me the Mk3 Mondeo was the last FWD car I had that handled excellently with proper feel while still being compliant.

 

None of the modern crop with electric power steering come close.

 

The 3.0V6 petrol was a lot nicer place to be than the old TDCi lump though. (Owned both)

[MC Bodge]

23 minutes ago, Kental said:

I have no wish to upgrade/mod my Octavia. I was just saying in that one aspect Fords of a certain era were a cut above base Octavias & current Focuses as they too have gone Torsion beam on petrol hatches (non ST). 
I am not saying a mk3 Focus was a better car, it was ridiculously cramped for its size & cabin quality far far below Octavia. However the bean counters have got in &  chopped the across the board multilink rear that both the Focus 1-3 & Octavia 2 possessed.

It is interesting that our 2006 Fiesta has a torsion bar rear, but rides and handles very well. Although it has half the power, and is less quiet (but at a less unpleasant frequency to the Octavia) , I prefer driving it to the Octavia on a twisty road and in town. 

 

[MC Bodge]

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

For me the Mk3 Mondeo was the last FWD car I had that handled excellently with proper feel while still being compliant.

 

None of the modern crop with electric power steering come close.

 

The 3.0V6 petrol was a lot nicer place to be than the old TDCi lump though. (Owned both)

I've never driven a V6 one. 

[Kental]

2 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

For me the Mk3 Mondeo was the last FWD car I had that handled excellently with proper feel while still being compliant.

 

None of the modern crop with electric power steering come close.

 

The 3.0V6 petrol was a lot nicer place to be than the old TDCi lump though. (Owned both)

 

3.0 V6 was that a 220? My boss at the time had a 2.5 V6 with the Volvo gearbox. My first Mondeo IV I think had a hydraulic rack & then electric on the Facelifted ones or perhaps I'm wrong.

 

Personally I found the mk3 TDCi clutch & steering heavier than I would prefer.

[Kental]

Now this could really put the cat among the pigeons.

 

Skoda Assist have hired me a 68 plate 1.0 SE Estate from Enterprise.  It has 23500 miles on it, but compared to my hatch oh my god.  It is much noisier with a noticeably worse ride and the stability in crosswinds is dreadful.  Granted the tyre pressures could be wrong and it may not be on premium front tyres, but I was amazed how different it felt.  I hope it was just a tired example. 

[MC Bodge]

3 minutes ago, Kental said:

Now this could really put the cat among the pigeons.

 

Skoda Assist have hired me a 68 plate 1.0 SE Estate from Enterprise.  It has 23500 miles on it, but compared to my hatch oh my god.  It is much noisier with a noticeably worse ride and the stability in crosswinds is dreadful.  Granted the tyre pressures could be wrong and it may not be on premium front tyres, but I was amazed how different it felt.  I hope it was just a tired example. 

Interesting. My car is an estate. My Father in law has a hatch that rides better and quieter than mine. 

[Kental]

13 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

Interesting. My car is an estate. My Father in law has a hatch that rides better and quieter than mine. 

 

Even the steering feels detached so I hope it is a bad example.  If I had hired this prior to me looking at an Octavia for lease, I would have discounted it out of hand.  It shows the advice to hire a car as an extended test drive before you commit can easily give a false negative.

Edited 7 January, 2020 by Kental