Torsion Beam rear end Estate handling

[Kental]

1 minute ago, MC Bodge said:

I do wish they wouldn't put such big wheels on cars 

 

Marketing winning over engineering

[Ootohere]

No big deal if there is not a no cost option of going smaller, if you want that car budget for buying smaller wheels and tyres.

'Audi do no cost option smaller wheels' and a salesperson will tell you you will reduce the desirability even if you tell them you are buying a keeper with your money and mind their own business they only drive an Audi that is a demonstrator and work 6 day weeks.  Nice shirt tie and suit / shoes. 

Minimum wage and commission

Edited 29 January, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[MC Bodge]

Having tried various things to improve it over the past year, I'm going to give some alternative cars a careful test drive, trade in the Octavia and move on.

 

My wife says that she finds the Octavia steering vague on the motorway. I don't find it that bad in a straight line, but I know what she means. Stiffer tyres and higher pressures make the ride even less bearable, though.

 

I've been put off VAG cars. It's a shame, as the engines can be excellent.

Edited 29 January, 2020 by MC Bodge

[Guest]

On 28/01/2020 at 19:02, logiclee said:

 

After 13 Skoda's and 3 Octavia's each one better than the last you could say I was pretty confident in the product and made an assumption about the "New" model.

 

I don''t kick myself for that but I do for not swapping it within the first 30 days when I could have. I could have saved myself over a year of not being happy with the car and having to put up with the dire reliability. All known MQB issues.

Wheel Bearings

Coolant issues

DSG lever x2

Clutch Pack x2

Mechatronics.

Buzzing at 1000-1200rpm (VW fix, Skoda "They all do that sir")

Faults which introduced a dash rattle and a grinding on full left lock.

Also Columbus screen becoming unresponsive in cold weather

 

Must be hell driving what sounds like a nightmare of a car, but no, I do not accept the confidence / assumption thing. The replacement being better than the previous model? That's certainly not true of any other commodity, why should a car be any different? Example - it's already been discussed on this very thread about the older Mondeo being better than the newer ones. Fair enough if the owner was the type who just wants their car to get them from A to B, but I just can't get my head around someone who enjoys driving, spending a ****load of money on a car they haven't driven.

 

You're absolutely right to highlight those problems but I do wish people would start talking some blame for being disappointed with certain aspect of cars. Everyone is different, everyone has their own needs and wants from a car, it's totally impossible for a car manufacturer to produce a car that will satisfy everyone, moreover a manufacturer such as Skoda who're seen as a 'value-4-money' brand.  Your first failure was to buy a car you didn't test, the 2nd was that if you 'enjoy' driving then why on earth buy the model that's clearly aimed at transporting a cost conscious Mr & Mrs Smith with their 2.4 children in comfort?   

Edited 29 January, 2020 by Guest

[logiclee]

7 hours ago, Scot5 said:

 

Must be hell driving what sounds like a nightmare of a car, but no, I do not accept the confidence / assumption thing. The replacement being better than the previous model? That's certainly not true of any other commodity, why should a car be any different? Example - it's already been discussed on this very thread about the older Mondeo being better than the newer ones. Fair enough if the owner was the type who just wants their car to get them from A to B, but I just can't get my head around someone who enjoys driving, spending a ****load of money on a car they haven't driven.

 

You're absolutely right to highlight those problems but I do wish people would start talking some blame for being disappointed with certain aspect of cars. Everyone is different, everyone has their own needs and wants from a car, it's totally impossible for a car manufacturer to produce a car that will satisfy everyone, moreover a manufacturer such as Skoda who're seen as a 'value-4-money' brand.  Your first failure was to buy a car you didn't test, the 2nd was that if you 'enjoy' driving then why on earth buy the model that's clearly aimed at transporting a cost conscious Mr & Mrs Smith with their 2.4 children in comfort?   

 

Who said I didn't test drive?

 

You miss the point about having confidence in a brand. If I was going for a Kia that I've never owned before then yes I'd be wanting extended test drives.

 

Having 13 Skoda's over a few decades as well as Passat's and Golf's and three models of the Octavia you could say you gain a high confidence in a product. A standard test drive with the salesman (Which I had) would probable give most people with that level of confidence enough information to make a purchase. Would you really insist on a 6 hour test drive and try motorways and your usual 2 hour round trip commute? I doubt most people would.

[MC Bodge]

3 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

Who said I didn't test drive?

 

You miss the point about having confidence in a brand. If I was going for a Kia that I've never owned before then yes I'd be wanting extended test drives.

 

Having 13 Skoda's over a few decades as well as Passat's and Golf's and three models of the Octavia you could say you gain a high confidence in a product. A standard test drive with the salesman (Which I had) would probable give most people with that level of confidence enough information to make a purchase. Would you really insist on a 6 hour test drive and try motorways and your usual 2 hour round trip commute? I doubt most people would.

I test drove my used car. It was raining very heavily on the day, though, which was less than ideal and possibly masked some of the noise and feeling. There is nothing functionally wrong with the car, but my expectations were higher due to driving a lot of Fords from the 90s-00s. I will certainly be more rigorous in testing any future cars. 

Edited 30 January, 2020 by MC Bodge

[StriderDog]

On 28/01/2020 at 17:17, Scot5 said:

 

Inexcusable?  After reading the above post that's very similer to the word I'd use to describe someone who obviously likes 'enjoying' their car but apparently didn't take it on a test drive before buying it. Or if they did take it on a test drive, they didn't take it on the roads they typically drive on.

 

Exactly who's at fault - Skoda or the buyer?  If you want a car that drives like a Ford - buy a Ford. If you want a car that drives like an Astra, buy an Astra.

 

 

 

 

I get what your saying but I think that as Skoda are part of the VAG group you expect them t have good build quality and live to to the reliability accolades they accrue. 

Maybe we are expecting too much, I took my car on an extended test drive and found no rattles or noisy components, however after owning the car for less than a year I'm disappointed that the car clunks and rattles at the first sign at any road that isn't as smooth as a snooker table.

My previous car was a Mondeo and even racking up 200k there wasn't any rattles or clunks from the suspension and they're from very similar price brackets.

There's a lot I really like about my Skoda and I'm sure it'll be reliable as long as the water pump, suspension etc doesn't pack up after 50k...

Cheers.  

[MarkyG82]

Maybe the conversation has swayed from performance to reliability? They are quite different in how they perceived but many people interlink various aspects.

The clunkyness is a 'feature' of the torsion beam setup. It performs adequately for 99% of users but not for the 1% who would like a more frugal alternative to the vrs. I count myself in that 1%. I am disappointed by the performance of the stock setup which is why I have changed to B6 shocks and pro-kit springs. It's made a huge difference. I am also experimenting with mass dampers which have so far not made it worse for performance and maybe a little quieter when bombing around.

[MC Bodge]

2 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

Maybe the conversation has swayed from performance to reliability? They are quite different in how they perceived but many people interlink various aspects.

The clunkyness is a 'feature' of the torsion beam setup. It performs adequately for 99% of users but not for the 1% who would like a more frugal alternative to the vrs. I count myself in that 1%. I am disappointed by the performance of the stock setup which is why I have changed to B6 shocks and pro-kit springs. It's made a huge difference. I am also experimenting with mass dampers which have so far not made it worse for performance and maybe a little quieter when bombing around.

My car has been very reliable. As I would hope for a car with only 40K miles on it. 

 

I am one of those who values a chassis more than huge engine power. The TSI 150 is a great engine with plenty of performance. 

 

It is just a shame that the chassis that it is bolted into isn't up to the standard of the engine. I don't mean that it should be rock hard and have huge wheel rims, but should maintain tyre contact with the ground, control the body and isolate high frequency road imperfections from. The body and passengers. The booming resonance through the body is another issue. 

[logiclee]

25 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

isolate high frequency road imperfections from. The body and passengers. The booming resonance through the body is another issue. 

 

Mine didn't have the booming wind noise that some report but as soon as the tyres hit bad road then the poor noise isolation and insulation was very noticable. Not helped by the poor Audio. Another downgrade from the Mk2 and our Mk2 had a Bolero, the Mk3 had the expensive Columbus option.

[Kental]

50 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

Mine didn't have the booming wind noise that some report but as soon as the tyres hit bad road then the poor noise isolation and insulation was very noticable. Not helped by the poor Audio. Another downgrade from the Mk2 and our Mk2 had a Bolero, the Mk3 had the expensive Columbus option.

 

Some things must have improved with the facelift as road noise even on M25 concrete sections isn't bad. I also find the audio not bad for a standard system.  All  my Fords had Sony upgrades (as all my pre 2015 ones were a minimum of Titanium and my Kuga had the Sony Nav camera upgrade) and my Kia had the JBL upgrade.  The Skoda is not to the level of the Kia JBL (with boot sub) but level to the Ford ones. To my knowledge the Columbus isn't an audio upgrade, on the Canton is.

Is your mk2 a hatch or estate?  Perhaps you are not comparing like with like.

Edited 30 January, 2020 by Kental

[logiclee]

15 minutes ago, Kental said:

 

Some things must have improved with the facelift as road noise even on M25 concrete sections isn't bad. I also find the audio not bad for a standard system.  All  my Fords had Sony upgrades (as all my pre 2015 ones were a minimum of Titanium and my Kuga had the Sony Nav camera upgrade) and my Kia had the JBL upgrade.  The Skoda is not to the level of the Kia JBL (with boot sub) but level to the Ford ones. To my knowledge the Columbus isn't an audio upgrade, on the Canton is.

Is your mk2 a hatch or estate?  Perhaps you are not comparing like with like.

 

Columbus didn't upgrade the speakers. On the earlier versions at least you got DVD, HDD , more media inputs and the ability to play FLAC lossless files. (As well as the Nav and screen upgrade) Conflicted opinions on whether the amp is upgraded or not. The Mk2 Bolero had one SD slot that could only play MP3 but had more drive and bass. Perhaps the MK3 is more accurate with a Flat response but that only works well on a fully insulated car.

My current commuter has a 1200W 17 speaker Bowers and Wilkins 5.1 Surround Sound system so is a bit better.

Edited 30 January, 2020 by logiclee

[Kental]

22 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

Columbus didn't upgrade the speakers. On the earlier versions at least you got DVD, HDD , more media inputs and the ability to play FLAC lossless files. (As well as the Nav and screen upgrade) Conflicted opinions on whether the amp is upgraded or not. The Mk2 Bolero had one SD slot that could only play MP3 but had more drive and bass. Perhaps the MK3 is more accurate with a Flat response but that only works well on a fully insulated car.

My current commuter has a 1200W 17 speaker Bowers and Wilkins 5.1 Surround Sound system so is a bit better.

Sound I think is better in a hatch than the estate unless you have some real extra power to fill the extra void and counter the extra road noise.

My brother has an 18 plate XF with the low level Meridian stereo which is pretty good so the B&W must be another level. Is the B&W better than the current surround Meridian?

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, Kental said:

Sound I think is better in a hatch than the estate unless you have some real extra power to fill the extra void and counter the extra road noise.

My brother has an 18 plate XF with the low level Meridian stereo which is pretty good so the B&W must be another level. Is the B&W better than the current surround Meridian?

 

The Meridian Surround is a 17 speaker 825W system.

 

But those in the know will tell you the 1200W B&W and 825W Meridian are the same system. Amps and speakers made by Jaguar partners under licence.

 

The 1200W and 835W difference is just down to how the output is measured by B&W and Meridian, they measure at different levels of THD.  The AMPS for both systems have the same Jaguar part number and the same firmware.  

 

The Meridian Stereo system looses the center and surround speakers and makes do with 380W

https://www.meridian-audio.info/public/meridian-xf-a4-ds[4322].pdf

 

What always amazes me is you can push the volume to silly levels with bass you can feel and there's not a single rattle or trim buzz.

 

BMW are now using a 16 speaker 1400W Bowers and Wilkins Surround system but depending on model it's up to a £4675 option.

 

When the B&W was available in the XF it was a £2000 option. The Meridian Surround is currently £1550

Edited 30 January, 2020 by logiclee

[Kental]

11 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

The Meridian Surround is a 17 speaker 825W system.

 

But those in the know will tell you the 1200W B&W and 825W Meridian are the same system. Amps and speakers made by Jaguar partners under licence.

 

The 1200W and 835W difference is just down to how the output is measured by B&W and Meridian, they measure at different levels of THD.  The AMPS for both systems have the same Jaguar part number and the same firmware.  

 

The Meridian Stereo system looses the center and surround speakers and makes do with 380W

https://www.meridian-audio.info/public/meridian-xf-a4-ds[4322].pdf

 

What always amazes me is you can push the volume to silly levels with bass you can feel and there's not a single rattle or trim buzz.

 

BMW are now using a 16 speaker 1400W Bowers and Wilkins Surround system but depending on model it's up to a £4675 option.

 

When the B&W was available in the XF it was a £2000 option. The Meridian Surround is currently £1550

 

Wow, the BMW option price really pushes it beyond a 520d then!!!  In April my brother's Jag goes back & he is getting a V60 XC with the standard stereo so will be interesting to compare.

 

Interesting that Jag have lowered an option price for effectively the same unit.  Perhaps there is less licence fee if they don't use the B&W name. 

[logiclee]

23 minutes ago, Kental said:

 

Wow, the BMW option price really pushes it beyond a 520d then!!!  In April my brother's Jag goes back & he is getting a V60 XC with the standard stereo so will be interesting to compare.

 

Interesting that Jag have lowered an option price for effectively the same unit.  Perhaps there is less licence fee if they don't use the B&W name. 

 

It really does depend on the specific model being purchased as prices shift year on year. Buy the top spec XF Portfoilio and the B&W/Meridian Surround used to be standard but now you get the 380W Stereo setup but the 825W Surround is only £200 more on a £45k+ car. Why didn't they keep it standard?

 

And BMW, on some models the basic audio is really poor, a tweeter and a mid driver in each door powered off a 20W per channel head unit. Then on some models there's three upgrade options.  A premium BMW with under seat subs and external amp, then a Harman Kardon and then Bowers and Wilkins.

The basic audio on the last 1 series was just about good enough for talk sport. My wife upgraded to the premium BMW system which was quite good for £550

Edited 31 January, 2020 by logiclee

[Kental]

11 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

It really does depend on the specific model being purchased as prices shift year on year. Buy the top spec XF Portfoilio and the B&W/Meridian Surround used to be standard but now you get the 380W Stereo setup but the 825W Surround is only £200 more on a £45k+ car. Why didn't they keep it standard?

 

And BMW, on some models the basic audio is really poor, a tweeter and a mid driver in each door powered off a 20W per channel head unit. Then on some models there's three upgrade options.  A premium BMW with under seat subs and external amp, then a Harman Kardon and then Bowers and Wilkins.

The basic audio on the last 1 series was just about good enough for talk sport. My wife upgraded to the premium BMW system which was quite good for £550

 

My brother's previous cars include a 12 plate 320d touring Business Edition (not sure if that changed the stereo or just the nav) and the sound was weak compared to the Mondeo Sony I had at the time.

 

He then got a 63 plate 335d x drive M Sport Plus saloon with H&K (I think) and Pro Nav.  That was a very good sound, but I felt the car was cold in the UK, it hit max sensible sensible speeds without any feeling.  My brother said it was fantastic for trips to Switzerland via Germany though.

 

After that he got a 16 plate Audi A6 3.0d Quattro SE.  The base stereo had a boot sub (I think) and sounded good.  Our parents have an 15 plate A6 Allroad with the Tech Pack (same stereo) and the Estate shell makes the stereo less special.  But as a car I felt it much more suitable to the UK.

 

After the A6 the 18 plate Jag XF Portfolio P200.  Probably my favourite of all his cars.

 

So yes I agree base BMW stereo is not to the standard of even the Octavia Amundsen.

Edited 31 January, 2020 by Kental

[MC Bodge]

Having looked at, and test driven, some different cars I've settled on a Mondeo as a replacement. It just seems to satisfy my needs more. 

 

The Superb is a big step up in ride and general quality over the Octavia, but out of budget in the spec I wanted. 

 

Jumping back into the Octavia after test drives of other cars and driving the same roads did really highlight the ride, handling and booming issues I have with the chassis. 

 

 

Edited 1 February, 2020 by MC Bodge

[Kental]

1 hour ago, MC Bodge said:

Having looked at, and test driven, some different cars I've settled on a Mondeo as a replacement. It just seems to satisfy my needs more. 

 

The Superb is a big step up in ride and general quality over the Octavia, but out of budget in the spec I wanted. 

 

Jumping back into the Octavia after test drives of other cars and driving the same roads did really highlight the ride, handling and booming issues I have with the chassis. 

 

 

 

What Mondeo have you gone for?

[MC Bodge]

It's a low mileage Mk5 Titanium Estate with 1.5 Turbo petrol. Apparently "sports" suspension, with big wheels, but the ride felt smooth and comfortable. 

[Ecomatt]

On 29/01/2020 at 19:10, Kental said:

 

Marketing winning over engineering

Large wheels are not the problem. It is the poor roads we drive on that cause the issues.

[bigjohn]

Is part of the problem here the profile of tyres which is getting smaller and smaller with newer models

 

 

Edited 1 February, 2020 by bigjohn

[Kental]

21 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

It's a low mileage Mk5 Titanium Estate with 1.5 Turbo petrol. Apparently "sports" suspension, with big wheels, but the ride felt smooth and comfortable. 

 

Nice, has it got the LED lights?

[MC Bodge]

2 hours ago, Kental said:

 

Nice, has it got the LED lights?

No. It will have its headlights looked at throughly when I get it, though. 

[StriderDog]

Although the ride is a little rough, clunky and doesn't soak up bumps it doesn't affect my style of driving, I've never been a petrol head unless you can count owning three 2CV's...

I Yes it isn't anywhere as civilised as other cars I've owned in the same price bracket +/- 1k but I know how it likes to be driven and how not to drive it or expect that it to be something that it's not. It's a car I use for business and pleasure, it's cheap to tax at £30 a year, hauls ass if you kick down and isn't at all a bad place to spend several hours a day in and not for fun.

The ICE is damn good to be honest as is the satnav but the car is a tool and hopefully it'll still be useful for another five years as that's how long I'll be keeping it for as long as it doesn't cause me internal injuries if I drive over a cobblestone path... 😁