Non current limited 12v source?

[sakta]

I’m fitting a socket that requires 45W of power in order to charge a laptop. With my Octavia vRS I remember having “poles” underneath the steering column with a 12v pole, 12v on ignition etc.

 

does anything like this exist on the Fabia? The stock cigarette lighter socket Wiring seemingly can’t cope with that amount of power. I even tried a 12v to 240v domestic socket converter and it didn’t work even with nothing plugged in!

Edited 4 March, 2020 by sakta
Photo

[sepulchrave]

Just use a relay with a direct feed from the battery, 4A isn't crazy, many silly car stereo amplifiers need much more than that.

[J.R.]

I have that exact voltmeter/USB unit that you show connected to the cigarette lighter socket, the socket is rated to run the wheelchange air compressor which is a lot more than 45watts, on the other hand I thought USB sockets only gave out 2 amps = 24 watts on a good day?

 

Its a great little accessory though especially on our vehicles that can discharge the battery on standby when there are radio & canbus compatibility problems.

 

My car is not used a lot but I can see the battery voltage from outside.

 

Just taken delivery of 2 more of them, one is  connected to my spare battery in the garage so I know when to put it on charge again.

 

Mine have an on/off switch for the LED display and charging port.

Edited 4 March, 2020 by J.R.

[Breezy_Pete]

There's a permanent  12V busbar tucked away behind the dash trim somewhere in behind the light switch on some Fabia variants. Be sure to fuse any wire you add onto it though.

[VWD]

JR- I ( and possibly others ) think that OP is talking about 45W at 12v. USB  is a 5v source and depending on standard is current rated.

 

At 45W ( almost 4A) it might be prudent to fit a relay controlled from a source that's of when car ignition is off ( i.e. something fed from X relay), so you don't get  back to car to find battery is low. But, ( and I know from experience of dodgy ciggy plugs ) that the ciggy/ power socket is rated at 15A, (F42) so is more than capable of handling 45W .But if OP needs to fit a USB socket to give almost 4A at 5v( USB supply) , they would need something better than the average 12/USB convertor as even the highest output chips ( 7805) only handle 1/1.5 A.

 

 

[sakta]

My socket takes a 12v input and provides the 45W using power delivery as its USB-C, hence it actually operates at higher than 5V (20v when connected to my MacBook) when it negotiates the connection with the other device, as part of the USB-C spec. Hence why I'm going for this option, as the versatility will let me charge my laptop and phone in the car without bulk. The wires for the cigarette socket are thick enough to be able to support the power, so I dont understand why it isn't working for the full power capacity, that's why I thought it might be best to do some new wiring to be honest. I might try connect direct to battery just to determine if this socket is just low quality or if I have some sort of issue with my socket.

[Breezy_Pete]

I've had a similar problem trying to run a 150W inverter even with no load on it (come to think of it, I should maybe try it with a small load in case that helps). It just wouldn't start up.  I suspect it may be about the (very brief) inrush current at switch-on making the voltage at the socket dip sufficiently for the inverter to detect low battery voltage and so just not start up. Just guessing though, never pursued it.

[Breezy_Pete]

This is what the "voltage distributor" behind the dash trim looks like:

https://workshop-manuals.com/skoda/fabia-mk1/vehicle_electrics/electrical_system/wiring/fuse_holder_and_relay_carrier/voltage_distributor/

Be careful if you do add a new wire in there, (a) fuse it as close as poss to that busbar and (b) be careful with spannering on the M6 nuts if you do it live (not recommended) as there's grounded metalwork quite close once the cover is opened/removed.

 

Edit: found a pic of it 'in the flesh' (with cover off, it seems):

 

Edited 5 March, 2020 by Wino

[TMB]

^ So that's the other side of this? ....

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Well, the other side of that is much deeper behind the dash.

This voltage distributor is just in front of/above the relay panel, which is not far in front of your right knee when driving.  Not sure if it's on all diesels (that photo is of a diesel), certainly on some petrols like our 1.2 Fabia it's much less accessible.  On my Polo it's just  like that photo above though, maybe year-dependent?

I think one of Tech1e's build threads has/had some photos with dash out, including up there where those connectors are.

Edited 5 March, 2020 by Wino

[TMB]

Yeah, after you inserted the actual pic of it in the edit I can see what it is.

[J.R.]

Old school invertors need a load to operate, I have a few that I built from scratch, I'm pretty sure that modern ones would be the same unless there was a particular need to be at voltage off load.

 

The Chinese USB socket/voltmeter is never in a million years going to draw 45 watts at 12V unless its on fire, this is the specification.

 

Specification:
Power Input: DC 12V-24V
Output Current: DC 5V 3.1A, 9V 2.1A, 12V 1.5A

 

Apologies if Saktas socket is a different animal.
USB Port: 1

 

People should be very wary of drawing current from the main busbar even if using an inline fuse because they usually use crimp connectors and most people only have toy crimping pliers.

Edited 5 March, 2020 by J.R.

[Breezy_Pete]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

most people only have toy crimping pliers.

That's a fair comment.

 

Pretty sure my inverter worked directly off the battery though, and in an earlier car (mk2 Golf) via its ciggie lighter skt. Not truly sure about ouput loading when I was trying it, it was five or more years ago...

[J.R.]

I even watched with horror an episode of Wheeler Dealers where Ed China was using a toy pair to wire in foglamps or some other high current load through a relay.

 

If you have ever seen him tapping into a wire by stripping back the insulation, twisting and soldering the additional cable to it then wrapping it in insulation tape you will wonder if he makes his living fitting towbars with silicone these days

[sakta]

Brilliant! My Fabia is a scrapheap and has lots going wrong that I might post later to get an opinion....  but at least I might be able to charge my laptop whilst outside... would certainly be a very useful socket since the damn inverter works 1% of the time

Will give it a go and report back if it worked hehe.

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

I even watched with horror an episode of Wheeler Dealers where Ed China was using a toy pair to wire in foglamps or some other high current load through a relay.

 

If you have ever seen him tapping into a wire by stripping back the insulation, twisting and soldering the additional cable to it then wrapping it in insulation tape you will wonder if he makes his living fitting towbars with silicone these days

 

I thought he was the green cross man or some other member of the safety police, frankly I'm shocked.

[sakta]

Well, certainly was a pointless exercise. After some fiddling with a drill etc I fitted it to the left of the light switch, and connected it to the poles as you suggested Wino.

Perhaps my charger is rubbish, but it isn't charging my MacBook still. I suppose the power is too low, as mine normally calls for 87watts. Ive used lower power chargers with it before, and it works with anything you give it (even if you use a very low power charger, it will slow down the discharge rate but still show as charging). After some digging, I found it advertised under another name. The review states "USB-C PD Negotiation seems to be dodgy as it just refuses to charge my Mac - constantly cycles between charging and not charging.".... well that was a waste of time

 

 

Edited 5 March, 2020 by sakta

[Tilt]

@sakta 

 

I have had a plug in type usb charger before and my android phone would not charge from it. I thought it was the cable so tried a few...

 

No, it was the charger. It did however work on another older phone..........Not saying it is but this could be the issue with yours?

 

Does your usb socket charger work for other stuff ie smartphone???

[J.R.]

I have 3 and they all work fine if you respect the maximum loading, its probably not a valid criticism that it doesn't work when connected to a device requiring far more current, You have a device rated at 15 watts max and want it to supply 87 watts, its no surprise that it shuts down or worse still has overloaded and failed, I have USB sockets in my rental apartments, they have the same rating and work faultlessly until someone tries to charge a computer or high current device at which point its another repair job and more money lost for me.

 

I would not pull more than 1amp from a Far Eastern device rated at 1.5 amp.

 

 

I do hope you used a fuse and any crimped connections are secure.

 

I'm sure it will serve you well for charging telephones etc and as a voltmeter if you havn't killed it, I removed the weatherproof cap as it looks naff hanging loose but does mean that the contacts could become shorted or dirt/duest etc get into the socket.

Edited 5 March, 2020 by J.R.

[Tilt]

Mine was just a push fit, though shouldn't really make any difference if it fits the lighter socket properly.

[sakta]

17 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I have 3 and they all work fine if you respect the maximum loading, its probably not a valid criticism that it doesn't work when connected to a device requiring far more current, You have a device rated at 15 watts max and want it to supply 87 watts, its no surprise that it shuts down or worse still has overloaded and failed, I have USB sockets in my rental apartments, they have the same rating and work faultlessly until someone tries to charge a computer or high current device at which point its another repair job and more money lost for me.

 

I would not pull more than 1amp from a Far Eastern device rated at 1.5 amp.

 

 

I do hope you used a fuse and any crimped connections are secure.

 

I'm sure it will serve you well for charging telephones etc and as a voltmeter if you havn't killed it, I removed the weatherproof cap as it looks naff hanging loose but does mean that the contacts could become shorted or dirt/duest etc get into the socket.

By default modern devices using USB-C and even mobile phones, both Apple and android have a charging controller. It doesn’t request a given current, it simply ramps up current from a low amount (less than would even be useful, few hundred milli amp) until voltage drops below the nominal voltage for the power supply. So any decent piece of electronics SHOULD fulfill that function and work fine, so the charger is junk honestly. The device is rated 45W as it is designed to support usb power delivery; my MacBook, also as it supports the USB-C spec, is happy taken less than the nominal 87W, it will just charge extremely slowly 

[J.R.]

At £4 delivered half way around the world then I dont expect a lot, certainly not miracles, its not a 45 watt device, it says clearly that its 15 watts (3.1 amps @ 5 volts) in the specification, I think you will find that it does fullfill the function that you describe within its operating limit of 15 watts.

Edited 5 March, 2020 by J.R.

[sepulchrave]

Chinese rubbish with pretty lights on it, are you really surprised?

[sakta]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

At £4 delivered half way around the world then I dont expect a lot, certainly not miracles, its not a 45 watt device, it says clearly that its 15 watts (3.1 amps @ 5 volts) in the specification, I think you will find that it does fullfill the function that you describe within its operating limit of 15 watts.

you might have seen the product data sheet for another variant. Mine has PD USB-C as well as USB-A.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NV6XT41/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_jAxyEbY862Z6R
 

15 watts is actually the limit on the USB port. If you check the specification it clearly states 45W on the USB-C port using the USB Power Delivery spec

 

 

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

Chinese rubbish with pretty lights on it, are you really surprised?

 not too much honestly, just sad because I glued it very well using B7000 adhesive, I can’t be bothered to take it out now haha 

Edited 5 March, 2020 by sakta

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

Chinese rubbish with pretty lights on it, are you really surprised?

 

They used to call Japanese bikes and cars Jap Cr@p once apon a time.

 

People will soon be screaming for Chinese rubbish once the delays from the virus really hit.

5 minutes ago, sakta said:

you might have seen the product data sheet for another variant. Mine has PD USB-C as well as USB-A.

 

. If you check the specification it clearly states 45W on the USB-C port using the USB Power Delivery spec

 

 

Mine says - Compatible with all USB-powered devices including Quick Charge 3.0/2.0 Smart phones & tablets whatever that means.

 

You should really post a link to your product.