Hi guys, 

 

I just need a quick info here. 

 

I would like to first thank everyone on this forum for the extensive info available here. I am still looking for the things ı can learn, thanks a lot everyone!

 

The thing is,  ı have a head gasket failure,  for sure. I know what i need to do, replace head gasket + check the cover for any warp. 

 

My only missing information or tool is a torque wrench. I do not have one and ı will not be able to borrow one (I talked with a couple of mechanic and none of them accepted, ı understand them.). The thing is ı wonder if ı can replace the head gasket with only common tools and do you advise me and finally is there any tips and trick about doing it without a torque wrench. 

 

To be honest with you ı talked about it with a mechanic friend (which is faraway from me) and he told me to not do it without it. Reason being  : if i do not use a torque wrench i will not be able to put equal force on each nut and ı might crush the gasket or let it loose resulting in a new failure very quickly!

 

Do anyone have a idea about this or advise. 

 

Ps : ı checked the prices for a torque wrench it is at least 500tl (100usd) which is high for me right now.

 

7 minutes ago, Naboula01 said:

To be honest with you ı talked about it with a mechanic friend (which is faraway from me) and he told me to not do it without it. Reason being  : if i do not use a torque wrench i will not be able to put equal force on each nut and ı might crush the gasket or let it loose resulting in a new failure very quickly!

Well, I can't say much beyond that you have a good friend who gave you good advice rather than saying what you wanted to hear,

So... it a no-no without the torque wrench,  right ?

 

Then ı shall either get one or go and take a risk to do it without it... 

You could probably do it quite accurately by using a spring balance to measure force, and calculate by lever arm length and balance reading what the initial xxNm is equivalent to when you pull your ratchet handle round with the spring balance??

 

 

 

 

Wow nice idea. Just to be clear the torque wrench calculate the torque needed at the top of the nut right? 

 

So knowing the length of the wrench and the force at the top would permit me to check the torque needed. Nice idea!

Yeah, I imagine there may be youtube videos showing you how to do it and to do the maths?  Haven't checked, but I'd be surprised if there isn't anything.

Say the initial stage torque is 20Nm, and you connect that balance to a lever/ratchet handle at a distance of 0.5m from the centre of the bolt, you would need it to read 4Kg, I think.

 

@Naboula01 @Wino - I wasn't discussing that method (because I'd forgotten it TBH). Still, with a typical tommy bar, (12inches or 1 foot long) you'd get usable imperial results using a suitable scale calibrated in pounds. Xlbft means a force of X pounds at a distance of 1 foot.

Yes cool info. 

 

I just furnished watching this video :

 

 

Loved it very informative. I just have a question, after torque wrenching the nuts a second wrenching is needed in order to fully  set the head gasket right. He does a 90degree turn, is it the same for the favorit nuts?

 

Ps : ı remember that 20 to 25nm is needed for e head gasket but couldnt find the rest of the info. 

@Naboula01

What country are you from?

There are Mannesmann torque wrenches at $50 too. I use it all the time.

 

I am from Turkey. I checked different website to see if ı can find one cheaper but unfortunately ı couldnt. 

Also, just something ı wonder,  is the engine of the fav iron cast or aluminium. I remember being cast iron but not süre about it.

1 hour ago, Naboula01 said:

I am from Turkey. I checked different website to see if ı can find one cheaper but unfortunately ı couldnt. 

This is why we ask that you complete car and location details in your profile: it makes giving you best advice easier since we can allow for model and consumer affairs law differences.

1 hour ago, Naboula01 said:

I just have a question, after torque wrenching the nuts a second wrenching is needed in order to fully  set the head gasket right. He does a 90degree turn, is it the same for the favorit nuts?

I don't know off hand, but checking torque after a given distance (usually 800 or 1_600 km) and/or angle-tightening head bolts (you've described this) are normal practices.

3 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I don't know off hand, but checking torque after a given distance (usually 800 or 1_600 km) and/or angle-tightening head bolts (you've described this) are normal practices.

I remember  filling the info. Will check if it is filles again now. 

 

So you mean that nuts should be checked after after around 1000km after doing a head gasket. Will do so. 

 

Just a quick thing, ı talked with a mecanic about this he asker for around 150usd for the repairs. But by experience ı know that mecanics here are not reliable,  for exemple ı am pretty süre they will not replace  the nut on the HG after fitting a new gasket. For info, the gasket and 10 nuts costs 50usd. 

 

My only issue here is my car is at work now, (20km) from home and ı do not want to mova it and cause damage the cylinder etc... So ı am planning to do it in the weekend. But my only fear is not being able to finnish it quickly or messing it up and have to go to the mecanic at the end... I know ı can do it since ı worked on another car and did it but due to psychological reason (I might have a start of depresssion resulting in a big pack of confidence and not wanting to do anything) ı fear very very much to not be able to do it... anyway ı will make up my mind today (need to decised by 40min). Öne thing is for süre is if ı do it and make it through ı will feel much better. Knowing that i can do things by myself and succeding and believing in myself. 

 

Hope you guys understand my situation. And sorry for the long post. 

Just take it steadily, you'll have plenty of time in a weekend I think.

Print out the sequence and tightening instructions that @RicardoM has kindly posted, and mark each stage against each bolt as you go through the sequence (maybe colour in one-third, then two-thirds, then full for each numbered circle) so you don't lose track of where you have got to.

 

Rechecking torque after certain mileage is a thing of the past, predating your engine, I think. Not really possible when angle tightening has been employed.

Edited 6 March, 20206 yr by Wino

Do you have a suitable 'breaker bar' for the angle tightening stages? You may find it very hard work (and so be less accurate) without.

Something like this: link to amazon example, possibly even a slightly longer one.

I recommend you get the torque wrench.

You can use it in many places.

and, yes unduly expensive in Turkey.

(Bir türkle translate ile ingilizce konuşmak) 😛

5 hours ago, Wino said:

Rechecking torque after certain mileage is a thing of the past, predating your engine, I think.

True. Don't follow KenONeill advice.

 

As for letting a mechanic do the job, I would let him do it with one condition. Allow you to watch, without bothering him with questions.

Don't forget that the cylinder head will need to be resurfaced. So you just buy the parts then watch.

Hi everyone,

 

So I would like to first thank all of you for your support. 

 

A quick update about my situation :

After leaving my car at work on friday, I went to check the problem and how I could resolve it yesterday. After Going there I started the car to check for any smoke but I couldn't see any. I warmed up the engine, reved it couple of time, then let it cool down and started again and still nothing.

 

I check everything that came to my mind : the oil stick and oil were good, no rise in the level or  missing oil, the water tank was clean without any trace of oil in it and the level looked the same as always, no smoke coming from the oil cap, no smoke from the exhaust,

 

For info I suspected a HGF because on Friday morning I stopped to get a sandwich on my way to work, I stopped the car for like 2 minute no more, then when I started it and drove away, they was a smoke on the back of the car after the start (A white smoke which stayed in the air for 10-15 second). After going to my work place I parked the car, waited 1 to 2 minute in it and started the engine again to check again for the smoke. I saw smoke coming from the engine bay and exhaust As soon as I realised this I stopped the car opened the bonnet to check where it came from but the smoke disipated and couldn't find the source, I opened the oil cap, It had a residue of Mayonaise (White thick oil), and I concluded(maybe too soon) that the Head Gasket had failed.

 

So right know I am planing to do a compression and/or leak test as Shrodinger is saying, and I will look for a chemical test. I talked with my mechanic friend and he told me that the smoke might have came from a faulty gasket in the valve, wich might leak oil to the engine, and this would explain the white smoke.

 

For information, I have a 20 km drive from home to work %70 of highway at a speed of 90 to 105 km revving in the "green" zone. My car has been converted to use LPG like literally every car in Turkey. (The LPG is widely use and the price of LPG is half the oils)

 

I will upload videos I took on Sunday soon.

Edited 9 March, 20206 yr by Naboula01

11 hours ago, Naboula01 said:

I opened the oil cap, It had a residue of Mayonaise (White thick oil), and I concluded(maybe too soon) that the Head Gasket had failed.

Was that the first time you saw that emulsion inside oil cap?

Was that trip different than your usual 20 km trip?

To be honest with I never checked the oil cap. But I don't remember,  still I am not sure of it so. 

The trip was the same as usual. 

 

I checked for chemical test. I found one on the internet in Turkey,  however the test is strange because the process is as follow:warm up the car, let it run for 15 min, stop the car and wait 5 min, and then get a little bit of water in the test box. If it change color you have a gasket failure. It sound weird because they can be contaminant in water as I know so this test cannot be reliable. Am I wrong or does test like this exist? Do any of you used a similar test ? Is it reliable?

 

Link to YouTube video: 

 

Website to product  (Turkish) :

https://www.csmotortest.com/ 

 

4 hours ago, Naboula01 said:

Is it reliable?

I didn't see so far a chemical test to be reliable. They are at best inconclusive. Not to mention that cheap blue fluid is insanely expensive.

But if the fluid changes color, from blue to yellow, it’s going to cost you a lot of green.

 

By the way, the blue liquid is called Bromothymol Blue. You can buy concentrated solution for $4 off eBay.

The liquid turns from blue to yellow in the presence of CO2, and turns back from yellow to blue when the CO2 is removed by bubbling air back through the solution.

Edited 10 March, 20206 yr by RicardoM

So a quick update, I have the certitude that the Head Gasket has failed. I am currently checking with a mecanic to see if I can manage a good price otherwise I will do it this weekend at home. 

 

You can see in the videos bellow that I hadn't had any "certain" proof of the HGF since everything seemed OK, No smoke, no hard piping, no Mayonaise etc... I just had a "knock" problem since the very beggining. I found out that the smoke come after my daily drive after I stop the car the smoke start to appear. I also found out that I have a Hole in my exhaust !!! (reason why the smoke come from the front).

 

I am planning to replace the Head Gasket as well as all the bolts (Which I know for sure that no mecanic replace in Turkey each time). I also do not expect the Head Cylinder to be bent since the "leak" appear only after the engine is hot. I presume that the leak is tiny and with the water pressure increasing and oil viscosity increasing it get in the cylinders. 

 

One extra info, I wasn't planning to go to the mecanic but because of the Covid-19 problem I am not planning on taking the bus and thus trying my best to solve this problem quickly.

 

Looking forward for you guys feedback.

 

PS : My reason for not updating last week is I couldn't see anything and I was actually waiting to see if the coolant level would go down while the car was "sleeping". The Coolant level stayed the same. I mean EXATLY the same. But after I drove to my job I lost nearly 0,75L of coolant on my trip around (-/+40km)Also I checked the Oil level it also went down.

 

HGF Smoke Video :

 

 

Previous Video where the engine is hot but without smoke :

 

 

Another Video where the Engine is cold but without smoke :

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Naboula01 said:

You can see in the videos bellow that I hadn't had any "certain" proof of the HGF since everything seemed OK, No smoke, no hard piping, no Mayonaise etc...

In the first video at 0:12 I see some evidence of HG failure.

1 hour ago, Naboula01 said:

I am planning to replace the Head Gasket as well as all the bolts (Which I know for sure that no mecanic replace in Turkey each time)

In Skoda Felicia service manual there is no mandatory rule to replace the bolts. In fact they say that you can use the old ones.

1 hour ago, Naboula01 said:

I also do not expect the Head Cylinder to be bent since the "leak" appear only after the engine is hot.

Do not expect anything. Measure.

1 hour ago, Naboula01 said:

I presume that the leak is tiny and with the water pressure increasing and oil viscosity increasing it get in the cylinders.

You know, a HG failure can have many ways to manifest.

PS

See those black margins to the left and right of your video? It's because you are filming using the phone vertically. Normally we shoot such people in the face 🙂. You will be amazed how much more information you can capture holding the phone horizontally...

to me you first need to clean the carb so that the poor car can run and idle
secondly start investingating head gasket, if you dont see oil in water then 95% of cases for these cars its fine.
My felly will sometimes steam due to condensation and it will create some mayo on the cap, though that will go away if you let the car properly warm up