Hi, new member here from Sweden. Long story short this is my very first car that I buy, I’m +30 years with soon two kids (1,5 and 1month old). After eliminating Passat and Xc60 the option has fallen on a Skoda Supreme Estate. 

 

I basically know zero about cars, decided that I want a “better used one” so not too old, still with some guarantees and low mileages. 
 

Found two options that I’m considering but really can’t take a decision. Found this forum and hoping you experts might be able to guide me in right direction. 

Both cars are L&K business editions with automatic gearbox main difference I see is the fuel engine?
 

Car #1: from 2019-08 with 19.570km in

candy white. TDI 190 DSG 4x4, only owner has been the Skoda store., it’s their demo car. 
Price is approx 25.400£ or 28.370€ 
 

Car #2: from 2018-06 with 28.100km in Quartz Grey Metallic. TSI 180 DSG, only one private person owner and now selling via car dealer. 
Price is approx 22.000£ or 24.570€
 

Not sure how much I drive per year but best guess is between 10-15.000km. It will mainly be on highway 40km to work (2 times per week)  and once per week 160km to my parents (both km are to and back). Then some city driving in the weeks to supermarket and occasionally a holiday trip 2-3h away. 
 

Which car sounds like the best fit? 

if You can't hear TDI tractoring sound then you can save 30% of money for each mile

 

i vote for TSI!

I like the new name - Skoda Supreme Estate. 

As you’re in Sweden you will probably get the engine pre warming system but for info, the petrol car would warm up faster.

Both engines would be fine to drive but as MartiniB says, you’ll get more miles per gallon with the diesel car. The diesel noise isn’t really noticeable inside the car though.

1 hour ago, john999boy said:

I like the new name - Skoda Supreme Estate. 

As you’re in Sweden you will probably get the engine pre warming system but for info, the petrol car would warm up faster.

Both engines would be fine to drive but as MartiniB says, you’ll get more miles per gallon with the diesel car. The diesel noise isn’t really noticeable inside the car though.

oh no I just noticed the error 😱 cant figure out where to correct but hopefully it still makes sense  

 

growing up in northern Sweden (live in south now) we always had Diesel so the noise for me is almost “like a car should sound like” so I think I’ll be ok with diesel noise. 
 

worried about DSG tsi engine having issues, read about some serious issues the brand had and unsure if that’s fixed in 2018? 

People have been moaning about serious lag with the higher output DSG's I believe there is another thread on this.

 

I like mine but it is older type and so far no issues......

 

@Nathalie what is the consensus regarding petrol / diesel in Sweden. Is either one frowned upon more than the other???

 

Maybe worth taking a serious look at the warranty with either cars and taking into account when your make your choice. 

26 minutes ago, Nathalie said:

oh no I just noticed the error 😱 cant figure out where to correct but hopefully it still makes sense

Members below the Freedom level have 60 minutes to edit their posts but Freedom members have an unlimited amount of time plus extra benefits.

4 hours ago, MartiniB said:

if You can't hear TDI tractoring sound then you can save 30% of money for each mile

 

i vote for TSI!

why would your vote go for tsi? Only due to the lower sound or anything else?

Hello Nathalie

 

It doesn't sound like you do enough kilometres to warrant needing a diesel.  Although having said that we've now had three diesels, have never done enough mileage to warrant it, but they've all been great.

 

Does your climate/weather mean having 4x4 is a priority?

 

The TSI engine is generally a very robust unit.  The only DSG that's been notably troublesome is the DQ200, 7 speed dry clutch.  Although, again, we have one in my Wife's Polo 1.8 GTI and it's been faultless.

 

Of the two car's you've listed, I'd go for the 180 TSI if it were me.

 

Gaz

1 minute ago, Nathalie said:

why would your vote go for tsi? Only due to the lower sound or anything else?

Watching the revs rise to 7,000rpm rather than straining to reach 5,000rpm in the diesel.

2 minutes ago, IamGaz said:

Hello Nathalie

 

It doesn't sound like you do enough kilometres to warrant needing a diesel.  Although having said that we've now had three diesels, have never done enough mileage to warrant it, but they've all been great.

 

Does your climate/weather mean having 4x4 is a priority?

 

The TSI engine is generally a very robust unit.  The only DSG that's been notably troublesome is the DQ200, 7 speed dry clutch.  Although, again, we have one in my Wife's Polo 1.8 GTI and it's been faultless.

 

Of the two car's you've listed, I'd go for the 180 TSI if it were me.

 

Gaz

climate in southern Sweden is normally not snowing but it can be slippery in winter if cold, which we have lacked last years. We don’t travel much north where the snow is. 
 

how would one find out if the gearbox is a dry or wet one?

1 hour ago, Tilt said:

People have been moaning about serious lag with the higher output DSG's I believe there is another thread on this.

 

I like mine but it is older type and so far no issues......

 

@Nathalie what is the consensus regarding petrol / diesel in Sweden. Is either one frowned upon more than the other???

 

Maybe worth taking a serious look at the warranty with either cars and taking into account when your make your choice. 

well in the shift 2019/2020 the government added a Bonus Malus tax on top of all Diesel engine cars maxing the yearly car tax +100% higher for any diesel car younger than 3 years. It’s insane. So difference in car tax between these two cars is almost 500£ a year. But after 2 years difference will be 200£ per year. Diesel tax higher. 

You will get more mpg with diesel than with petrol, but 4x4 rather than 2 wheel drive will reduce the difference. You need to try both cars to see which you prefer driving.

 

44 minutes ago, Nathalie said:

..how would one find out if the gearbox is a dry or wet one?

 

I'd ask the dealer to confirm.

 

It looks like it'll be a 7 speed DSG:

 

 

And without knowing for sure, I'd think it likely to be the DQ200 dry clutch unit.  The DQ381 wet clutch from around that time, was, so far as I'm aware, destined for the more powerful vRS & GTI's - happy to be corrected on this though, as I'm not 100% certain.

 

Gaz

Edited 29 March, 20206 yr by IamGaz

Not sure what the newer diesel's are like but my wife's 2.0 CR (2009model) coped with an 8 mile commute for 18 months...….commute is now longer though.

 

I've never driven the TFSi but rate the diesel highly, it's got plenty go and fuel consumption around 50 mpg average.

 

Sound like the diesel tax could be the clincher ?!

4 minutes ago, JohnMack said:

Sound like the diesel tax could be the clincher ?!

Yes, and the TSI is 3,800€ less to buy too, so the best choice if it is mainly a financial decision. Also Quartz grey possibly nicer than Candy white. If costs are not the main concern I would still try both cars.

 

@Nathalie I've altered the title to cover your other post in a different forum and to keep all the answers in this one topic.

1 hour ago, Nathalie said:

why would your vote go for tsi? Only due to the lower sound or anything else?

TSI has

1. Less noize

2. fasrer warm up

3. Better starting from stanstil

4. No awfull smell on your hands after fuel station

5. No Addblue, which can freeze in wimtertime

6. No black clouds behind car

If it were my choice I would go for the tsi

 

Not sure if the gearbox is wet or dry clutch, I have vague memory that the DQ200 (dry clutch) was not used in 4x4 versions.  But I might be wrong on this.

The dealer will be able to tell you as the 3 letter code in options list will identify it.

 

Although you are in the less cold Southern part of Sweden, the engine could potentially be very cold when starting if only using car 2 or 3 days per week.  The diesel may even use more fuel initially at very low temperatures so probably not much fuel saving overall.   If you are only driving 10000-15000 km (about 6000-9000 miles) per year then never going to get the higher price back through fuel saving

 

DQ200 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG's are only used on 'Front Wheel Drive' (FWD) engines with no more than 250 Nm torque.

Not used on cars with Haldex.

33 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

DQ200 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG's are only used on 'Front Wheel Drive' (FWD) engines with no more than 250 Nm torque.

Not used on cars with Haldex.

but would that mean that on the 2 wheel drive 180 TSI it uses it? 

59 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

If it were my choice I would go for the tsi

 

Not sure if the gearbox is wet or dry clutch, I have vague memory that the DQ200 (dry clutch) was not used in 4x4 versions.  But I might be wrong on this.

The dealer will be able to tell you as the 3 letter code in options list will identify it.

 

Although you are in the less cold Southern part of Sweden, the engine could potentially be very cold when starting if only using car 2 or 3 days per week.  The diesel may even use more fuel initially at very low temperatures so probably not much fuel saving overall.   If you are only driving 10000-15000 km (about 6000-9000 miles) per year then never going to get the higher price back through fuel saving

 

On the diesel it’s wet clutch but on the TSI the car is 2 wheel drive so not sure. I sent the dealer an email asking if he knew if it’s wet or dry. 
 

very good point on the cold starting, mornings here are freezing so the engine will def be cold the few times a week we start it. 

Can take 8km for the diesel to get upto temperature and the petrols do heat up quicker.

I have no idea about the 1.8 TSI Superb with 132kw, 

but the DQ200 was used on VW Polo 1.8TSI GTI's with 132 kW in 2015.

Hi @Nathalie

 

TSI 180:

+ Lower buying budget

+ Quicker warm up ?

+ Recommended for low mileage per year (10-15000 as you do)

+ Quarz grey is more classy

+ Less noise

+ DQ200 issues on its dry clutch were mainly fixed after MY2017.

- No 4x4 for icy roads.

 

TDI190:

+ AWD with winter tyres is really safer on icy roads, But... I think all Swedish drivers shall winter tyres. I assume it's mandatory in Sweden and and I also assume, that Swedish cars are not AWD / 4WD exclusively... Thus, is really a 'pro' ?🤨

+ Slightly lower fuel consumption (can be effectively increased by the weight of AWD system as @OldBoyScout said)

+ No gearbox issue

- Candy White, gets dirty quite quickly, especially in winter

- Higher Tax

- TDI engine warms up quite slowly. Don't mix coolant temperature and oil temperature. I do drive a TDI190 4x4 DSG6. I have ~17km to go to work. When outside temperature is around. 0-5°C, Coulant reaches the normal temperature (~90°C) with 5-7 km, but oil temperature doesn't reaches systematically the normal temperature (~98°C). Escpecially if I feather the throttle, then the oil temperature may only be ~85°C. This may also increase fuel consumption (as @SurreyJohn said).

- Higher buying budget

- Much more recommended for higher mileage per year (at least 20000 km/year).

 

Additional notes:

¤ Mileage on both car is somehow similar. Not a key driver to decide.

¤ TSI180 DSG7 : 0-100 km/h = 8,2s / TDI180 DSG6 4x4 : 0-100 km/h = 8,1s. I don't know if one can really tell which one has a better starting from standstill.

¤ Black clouds on TDI don't happen anymore on recent TDI with common rail system such as TDI190.

 

¤ Another key driver to help you to make a choice, could be the equipment/options level, which shall be compared to your needs. You didn't tell us in which configuration both cars are. 

7 minutes ago, Bap33 said:

Hi @Nathalie

 

TSI 180:

+ Lower buying budget

+ Quicker warm up ?

+ Recommended for low mileage per year (10-15000 as you do)

+ Quarz grey is more classy

+ Less noise

+ DQ200 issues on its dry clutch were mainly fixed after MY2017.

- No 4x4 for icy roads.

 

TDI190:

+ AWD with winter tyres is really safer on icy roads, But... I think all Swedish drivers shall winter tyres. I assume it's mandatory in Sweden and and I also assume, that Swedish cars are not AWD / 4WD exclusively... Thus, is really a 'pro' ?🤨

+ Slightly lower fuel consumption (can be effectively increased by the weight of AWD system as @OldBoyScout said)

+ No gearbox issue

- Candy White, gets dirty quite quickly, especially in winter

- Higher Tax

- TDI engine warms up quite slowly. Don't mix coolant temperature and oil temperature. I do drive a TDI190 4x4 DSG6. I have ~17km to go to work. When outside temperature is around. 0-5°C, Coulant reaches the normal temperature (~90°C) with 5-7 km, but oil temperature doesn't reaches systematically the normal temperature (~98°C). Escpecially if I feather the throttle, then the oil temperature may only be ~85°C. This may also increase fuel consumption (as @SurreyJohn said).

- Higher buying budget

- Much more recommended for higher mileage per year (at least 20000 km/year).

 

Additional notes:

¤ Mileage on both car is somehow similar. Not a key driver to decide.

¤ TSI180 DSG7 : 0-100 km/h = 8,2s / TDI180 DSG6 4x4 : 0-100 km/h = 8,1s. I don't know if one can really tell which one has a better starting from standstill.

¤ Black clouds on TDI don't happen anymore on recent TDI with common rail system such as TDI190.

 

¤ Another key driver to help you to make a choice, could be the equipment/options level, which shall be compared to your needs. You didn't tell us in which configuration both cars are. 

Thank you so much for such a good comparison of pros/cons. I feel I’m leaning towards TSI as mileage and warmup of diesel won’t really be reachable. 
 

the main fear I have is the gearbox if it’s the dry Clutch version that can blow any day. 
 

the configurations (sorry my very first car) I don’t know much about except the dealers have named both the cars “L&K business edition” which I assume has the same equipment but with minor differences based on 2018 and 2019 packages.