13 hours ago, Ecomatt said:

I think they take the sub frame off

In my experience with the 230, it was literally a 1-bolt out > remove OEM part > add new part > new bolt in, without any need for subframe removal. Just wanted to clarify in case of setting expectations, as SF-removal is - as our Spanish friends might say - mucho dinero!

 

Reading this thread, it is a mighty shame that you've had this experience @tunedude. The TDI's natural NVH make it difficult to compare TSI-centric parts, but helpful you putting your experience on here as it's good to clarify potential differences across the TDI VRS ownership. I've personally got the aluminium 034 mount in mine (same as @themanwithnoaim) - and it's been a dream. But then it's a 'smoother' engine than the TDI.

 

Definitely rate speaking to some VAG specialist tuners to discuss what potential options are open to you, including other polymer systems or otherwise.

Edited 1 May, 20206 yr by Ads230

Another thing to consider is raising the tickover revs by 50 or so. Mine was set at -50 (750) so put it at +50. Made a big difference to the NVH but was a bit too much for pulling away as it snatched at the clutch. Dropped it back to 0 (800) and the NVH is now better than before but with it being easier to drive at slow speed. Also prefer how it responds to throttle inputs at this setting.

 

Edit: it's free if you have vcds/obd11.

Edited 1 May, 20206 yr by MarkyG82

It's definitely more intrusive on my TSi, but I always knew it would be as all my cars over the last 10 years or so have had poly upgrades. Not so much that I can't stand it though.

 

Same with any performance upgrade, it'll have an adverse affect on comfort. The only mod that improves performance and doesn't have any negative effect on comfort is decent tyres and a uprated roll bars.

Edited 1 May, 20206 yr by DC04R

1 hour ago, MarkyG82 said:

Another thing to consider is raising the tickover revs by 50 or so. Mine was set at -50 (750) so put it at +50. Made a big difference to the NVH but was a bit too much for pulling away as it snatched at the clutch. Dropped it back to 0 (800) and the NVH is now better than before but with it being easier to drive at slow speed. Also prefer how it responds to throttle inputs at this setting.

 

Edit: it's free if you have vcds/obd11.

 

Yeah I've VCDS. I'll have a look at that.

 

2 hours ago, Ads230 said:

In my experience with the 230, it was literally a 1-bolt out > remove OEM part > add new part > new bolt in, without any need for subframe removal. Just wanted to clarify in case of setting expectations, as SF-removal is - as our Spanish friends might say - mucho dinero!

 

Reading this thread, it is a mighty shame that you've had this experience @tunedude. The TDI's natural NVH make it difficult to compare TSI-centric parts, but helpful you putting your experience on here as it's good to clarify potential differences across the TDI VRS ownership. I've personally got the aluminium 034 mount in mine (same as @themanwithnoaim) - and it's been a dream. But then it's a 'smoother' engine than the TDI.

 

Definitely rate speaking to some VAG specialist tuners to discuss what potential options are open to you, including other polymer systems or otherwise.

 

Well I'm all up for sharing my experiences, because as you say, it may help someone else with a TDI VRS choose what or not to buy.

 

And I am already prepared for the 'sharp intake of breath' and the 'big job that lad' from whichever garage I take it to

58 minutes ago, tunedude said:

 

Yeah I've VCDS. I'll have a look at that.

 

 

Well I'm all up for sharing my experiences, because as you say, it may help someone else with a TDI VRS choose what or not to buy.

 

And I am already prepared for the 'sharp intake of breath' and the 'big job that lad' from whichever garage I take it to

 

North Liverpool? Is that around Ormskirk? I've got a really trustworthy and zero bull**** mate up that way who does all sorts of exciting cars. Sometimes worth dropping in just to see what he's working on

29 minutes ago, DC04R said:

 

North Liverpool? Is that around Ormskirk? I've got a really trustworthy and zero bull**** mate up that way who does all sorts of exciting cars. Sometimes worth dropping in just to see what he's working on

 

yeah, I'm 10 minutes away from Ormskirk

8 minutes ago, tunedude said:

 

yeah, I'm 10 minutes away from Ormskirk

 

Causeway garage in Rufford, he put my insert in and has done other bits to my other cars too. Track day chum as well

Little bit of an update to share with yourselves.

 

I've found the roads over the past week that bit busier at rush hour and during the day (lockdown eh?) and it's meant certainly on the trip into work I've been able to see how it performs at slightly lower speeds / engine revs.

 

Now coming off the motorway and sitting at the roundabout junction, there is that little bit of 'rattliness' when you're approaching in 2nd going slowly, or when you've had to stop and come to a complete stop and move away in 1st. That's not too bad as it's only momentarily. Reversing into the space in work and up the drive, you do hear a good bit of rattling, but that again is only for a brief moment.

 

I'm finding the car to be that bit more responsive in both accelerating and engine braking with using a slightly lower gear to keep the revs up that bit higher. I'm also noticing (but it can't be relied upon) the MPG to and from work is a bit higher. You notice on the instant mpg it's a few lower than what I'd expect to see initially starting up down the road doing 30 in 3rd gear, but once I'm on the dual carriageway going towards the motorway, 40 in 4th is seeing me around the 60mpg mark (give or take 5 either side for gradient). Then up the motorway, 70 in 6th and I wouldn't know anything was different.

 

I think the rattle through me a bit. I was expecting a vibration, hum, rattle, just not to the extent which I've noticed it at. BUT............with a little VCDS advice from @MarkyG82, I've upped the idle rev limit from the default (which seems around 700rpm) to just under 900rpm. Tell you something, the rattle has been reduced a hell of a lot. It's still there, but by no means to the same extent as before. I drove home before with the car 'tuned', and the slow speed drive-ability (if that's English) has been improved. I do feel the car is that bit more sure footed when you're planting it; felt 17 again doing a few traffic light tear offs, but it feels happy accelerating briskly. I look forward to have a go of it in the wet.

 

So going from the 'I've ruined my car' and to the 'it's still not great', I've ended up at the 'things feel better' stage.

Going to raise the idle on my tsi too. Easy to do then? 

2 hours ago, DC04R said:

Going to raise the idle on my tsi too. Easy to do then? 

 

If you've VCDS or equivalent, yep.

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPjEiuaC7dk&feature=youtu.be

 

That was the video I followed.

I tried to copy it from the message I sent to tunedude but had iPad fail.

Let us know if it works on TSI as we both have TDI.

Powerflex make a soft insert  (not hybrid including lower puck).for the diesel engines in red colour which is what they call "65A"

 

Yellow is what they call "70A" which they state is 10-20% stiffer than red.....with the insert version being only 10% more..

 

Purple is 80A..

 

with black being 95A & their stiffest

1 hour ago, fabdavrav said:

Powerflex make a soft insert  (not hybrid including lower puck).for the diesel engines in red colour which is what they call "65A"

 

Yellow is what they call "70A" which they state is 10-20% stiffer than red.....with the insert version being only 10% more..

 

Purple is 80A..

 

with black being 95A & their stiffest

 

.......and the red one is what has diesel written on a lot of the adverts I've seen. That should have been a subtle indicator of which to get. Me thinking I know better.

 

I've driven the car now about 100 miles with the tweak I'd made to the engine idle and I am now relatively happy with now it feels. Albeit a lot of my journeys have been on the motorway / dual carriageway, I can't honestly feel any difference in comfort once you're moving now. Even taking it slow isn't feeling bad. There's that bit of rattle I'll admit, but having driven umpteen vans in my driving career, I'm used to a bit of diesel engine sounds / vibration. As previously said, you know you've engaged reverse!!

 

I don't like turning the electronics off, so I went for a spirited drive home from shift sunday night with the car in ESC sport. I don't know if it's just me noticing it that bit more because I'm looking for it, but I would say the car felt stabler under acceleration.

Now the air con is on full whack a lot the vibration is noticeably harsher! I don't mind it to be honest as all my cars are poly bushed usually, but for my wife and kid's sake I'm going to swap it out for a billet!

1 hour ago, DC04R said:

Now the air con is on full whack a lot the vibration is noticeably harsher! I don't mind it to be honest as all my cars are poly bushed usually, but for my wife and kid's sake I'm going to swap it out for a billet!

 

Yeah, I've noticed mine a lot more in the past couple of weeks because of the air con as well. Sitting at the traffic lights, the stop start doesn't kick in, so you're sat there juddering like hell.

 

I'm going to give mine until October (when it's service is due) and if I'm still feeling the vibrations a bit too much, I'm going to get them to replace it with an OEM bush.

 

Don't get me wrong, going for a drive in the car I feel it is better accelerating. It's just the downside of having this increased rattling at low engine speeds / idle which even with an idle speed adjustment still hasn't gone to a level I am able to ignore.

It's definitely better, the car does genuinely feel better on acceleration. Usually they just get rid of gear change slop but this car wasn't bad for it in the first place and so it shouldn't, it's only just turned 3!

 

I'm going to try either the red powerflex insert or just get a billet one. Both are supposed to have much less NVH, just hoping I'm not too used to the solid feel of the yellow insert. Is a good mod, maybe not ideal for a baby carrier though, ha.

Drove up to progressive parts today to get the 034 billet mount insert. But today I found the yellow insert to be hardly noticeable! Seems its just when it's really hot and ac is blasting and so dropping the revs that tiny bit too much. Not sure what to do now ha. Will hang on til I decide its properly unbearable 

19 hours ago, DC04R said:

034 billet mount insert

Be aware that I've just swapped out my 034 billet alu mount to the APR billet stainless steel mount due to 034's own admission that their standalone product is likely to 'bend' without additional $33 Insert. This update came about 8 months after I installed it on my VRS (which I was a bit annoyed about), so it had been in the back of my mind to change it. 

 

Having changed it last Friday during its service, the steel one is bedding in nicely. And ironically, there is no perceivable issue with the billet aluminium one...! I don't launch the car regularly - if at all - so I guess no major surprises. But presumably, the torque applied through TDI motors might be higher in the initial period...?

 

Anything billet (solid) is going to increase NVH more than poly- mounts, as the latter absorb even very small amounts of vibration - especially in diesels, which typically vibrate more than the TSIs. I would definitely hang on - all inserts need a bit of 'bedding' in where their initial rigidity will settle... as well as a bit of the 'princess and the pea' feeling of something new (which will wear off after a week or so driving it, when you'll get more used to it).

 

See how you go, but I'd stick to the poly version until you feel like you want to try something new - guarantee the billet types will be worse for NVH than a softer (non-race) poly version.

Yeah I asked at progressive if I should fit the upper too, but he said I'd be back to square one with NVH. 

 

I was reading an article that all the billet ones will eventually bend if not paired with the upper reinforcement - both grades of aluminium and also the stainless steel ones.

 

I'm sticking with the poly for now, as a super hot day in North West England isn't a regular thing! It's obviously not as stiff as billet, but does fill the void in the upper and lower parts of the OEM bush, unlike just the lower billet on it's own.

26 minutes ago, DC04R said:

both grades of aluminium and also the stainless steel ones

Yeah, I also read this and then went and did the S.Steel one anyway. I don't launch the car or do anything too silly (because I like having a working clutch), so I guess that might be why the 034 one didn't bend - and it was in there for about 17 months! The APR one gives me a bit more peace-of-mind, although I may revert to a poly one when I get bored of this one or something mega happens 😁

Yeah this is supposed to be my sensible dad wagon, so never do launches or wheel spins, leave that for the Mcdonald's kids

 

Just like my cars to feel nice and tight with no knocks or rattles. And a slick gearchange is a must, I'm used to the amazing gearbox feel in my Ep3 and Fn2 (RIP) civic Type R's

@DC04R I haven't found there to be an increase / decrease in the NHV with the drop in temperature.

 

My driving use of the car is starting to become normal again, as is the quantity of traffic on the roads at the 'normal' peak times.

 

I can see the advantages of having the bush in because going up and down the 'box is smooth and the car always feels ready (if that makes sense). BUT, I think the reason I'm finding the car is always ready, as I'm phrasing it, is because a lot of the time I'm driving in a gear lower than I would normally drive in so the car's cabin is vibrating to hell. So whereas on the 30mph road 4th is what I would be in (and the car is saying on the indicator I should be in), I'm driving in 3rd.

 

So because at peak times the traffic is heavier, I've been able to see how the car feels taking that extra attempt to get through the lights or at the motorway exit junction roundabout. I'm finding it to be a little impacting on the overall comfort of the journey to be honest. So on the section of dual carriageway leading to the motorway where there are 5 sets of traffic lights in probably a mile and a half, the other afternoon I got caught in all of them. It was a right stop start journey. I had the air con on because I was still relatively warm when the sun shone out the sky, so the stop start wasn't cutting in. Now for those times when I was both slow moving and stationary at the lights, I felt as if I was sitting in an old tractor. I was hard to ignore the uncomfortable sound within in the cabin. Furthermore because it was sunny, I wasn't up for turning the air con off and letting the stop start kick in.

 

I'm starting now to get a real impact from the downsides of using the hybrid bush on a diesel. As said previously, I'm going to stick with it until it's service and MOT are due and then I will make a decision then on whether to revert back to standard.

 

BUT........I'm seeing how it fairs.

ahhh yours is a derv? Ok so sounds like it's a little different. I'm being too lazy to read the old posts, but you do have the red insert in, right? Red is for derv and is 65A shore rating rather than the 70A (or maybe it's 75A - can't get a conclusive answer) of the yellow.

3 minutes ago, DC04R said:

ahhh yours is a derv? Ok so sounds like it's a little different. I'm being too lazy to read the old posts, but you do have the red insert in, right? Red is for derv and is 65A shore rating rather than the 70A (or maybe it's 75A - can't get a conclusive answer) of the yellow.

 

No, I thought I was clever first putting in the black hybrid and then realising my mistake, I put in the yellow hybrid.

 

I was being naive thinking the hybrid would be better, but I've shot myself in the foot because it's not a case of pulling it out and putting the old bush back in. I had to cut the rubber bush out.

 

So the insert bush is the best for ease of return of standard.

Ahhhhhh, so you've got the bush and not the insert? That'll be that then! Go for red insert and you'll be reet.

 

Yellow insert in mine