Hi all,

 

A little problem appears to be rearing its head on my Karoq which is exactly two years old.

 

The car is being used less during the lockdown but is being taken on an (essential) journey at least once a week, 15minutes each way so I wasn't expecting any issues with it.

 

Last week we went to move it on the drive to get the bins out and it wouldn't start, the battery was flat as a pancake. Even with all automatic systems turned off.

We charged the battery and the car started first time so we thought nothing of it.

 

I haven't done the longer run this week but it did a short run to the doctors on Friday and I ran the engine on the driveway yesterday for 5 minutes alternating between idle and light revs.

 

We've gone to move the car again tonight.... won't start.... the batter is again completely flat.

 

I've double checked and everything that could stay on after shutdown is turned off.

 

Any ideas?

 

Andy

You are going to have to keep the batteries charge up with the charger due to driving the car not charging it enough from what is used to start it.

I am in a similar position to you but my battery has remained charged enough to start the car easily so far with just a weekly 20 minute drive. My car is 18 months old and has an EFB 59AH 640 CCA Varta battery. I would suspect your battery personally. There are several other posts doing the rounds at the moment on similar subjects and from these and the cars handbook it seems that you can charge the battery in situ with a small low amp charger without any harm. If you don't want to take the risk you can remove the negative battery lead before charging. It seems on reconnection the only thing you will need to reset will be the clock. You will also use the long term "car data" e.g mileage, fuel consumsion etc from the Head Unit/ Trip computer.

A two year old Karoq falls nicely into the production period where a bad batch of MOLL branded batteries hit the UK.

 

Is your battery a MOLL? If so it's covered under warranty, Skoda are well aware of the issue. Plenty of threads on here too.

 

No need to worry about closed dealers, ring Skoda Assist.

 

If it isn't a MOLL then the battery is likely knackered, if it discharges to a point then sometimes they're unrecoverable.

 

Do you have a dash cam or anything else plugged into the 12V accessory socket or USB port?

3 hours ago, Robbydazzler said:

If you don't want to take the risk you can remove the negative battery lead before charging. It seems on reconnection the only thing you will need to reset will be the clock.

 

If you connect the charger's negative clip to the mass tab behind the battery (see thread "karoq 190tsi 4x4 sportline") there is no risk of damaging the sensor mounted on the negative  post of the battery itself.

On the other hand, if you disconnect the battery you may lose several bits of critical data from memory. In fact, when they replace a worn-out battery at the service, they take care to have a parallel current source connected during the operation to prevent the need to reset some functional elements afterwords.

An old saying was that it takes 30 minutes to replace what was used to start the engine. 

Yeah those old sayings from the days of points & condensor ignition and 22 amp generators that would only charge over 2000 rpm are really relevant today with geared starters, engines that start in 1/4 turn and minimum 90 amp alternators.

11 hours ago, agedbriar said:

 

If you connect the charger's negative clip to the mass tab behind the battery (see thread "karoq 190tsi 4x4 sportline") there is no risk of damaging the sensor mounted on the negative  post of the battery itself.

On the other hand, if you disconnect the battery you may lose several bits of critical data from memory. In fact, when they replace a worn-out battery at the service, they take care to have a parallel current source connected during the operation to prevent the need to reset some functional elements afterwords.

When I was researching this subject I eventually bothered to read the Owner's Manual provided by SEAT with the car. It specifically stated that the data would only be lost for the two items I mentioned above if the battery was diconnected and then reconnected. It also said that normally no damage would be caused if a small amperage charger (5A) was used on a  battery still connected to the car although the charger should be connected to an earth point (-Ve) other than the battery itself  (start/stop).I understand that older models might run into the problems you describe. Personally I have a horror of charging batteries in situ as I blew an alternator doing this many years ago and, on the other hand,  am always fearful that I will generate a load of faults which can only be dealer cleared if I disconnect it. Hence, unless I am forced to, I will not charge it using either method. Something I haven't quite twigged is that if I replace a battery with the same type (say EFB with EFB) do I need to "program" the ECU with details of the new battery?

Edited 27 April, 20206 yr by Robbydazzler

I'm not sure which data must be input when installing a new battery, but technology (say EFB), capacity and CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) seem vital for the system to be able to assess current SOC (State Of  Charge) and SOH (State of Health) of the battery - together with other operating parameters - when it must decide whether or not to activate the unfortunate Start/Stop function.

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that most of the "normal" battery charging is done on the engine overrun rather than during acceleration.  The intention being to improve fuel consumption.

If this is correct then to put charge into the battery going downhill on a closed throttle is what needs to be aimed for.

 

tom 

18 hours ago, boff180 said:

 

Last week we went to move it on the drive to get the bins out and it wouldn't start, the battery was flat as a pancake. 

 

Presumably this accounts for at least 2 more starts in a week (bins out and in) with no chance to recharge.

2 hours ago, Sanqhar said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that most of the "normal" battery charging is done on the engine overrun rather than during acceleration.  The intention being to improve fuel consumption.

If this is correct then to put charge into the battery going downhill on a closed throttle is what needs to be aimed for.

 

tom 

Exactly.

If you have a V-meter connected during the drive, you can see the voltage rise (up to 15.2 V on mine) upon deceleration or while going downhill, unless the battery is low enough to merit a few extra drops of petrol for some immediate charge.

 

 

Edited 27 April, 20206 yr by agedbriar

I invested in one of these, does the trick.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-Start-40-106-Battery-Charger/dp/B00YBR8PFK/ref=sr_1_4?crid=JZP3L7PH9TF&dchild=1&keywords=ctek+stop+start+battery+charger&qid=1587986998&sprefix=cetek+stop+start%2Caps%2C136&sr=8-4

With what the OP says then it does sound like a battery issue, but it could also be a faulty alternator too. It needs to be checked out.

 

Wouldn't have thought the 5min idle on drive would have done any good, it probably replaced the power it took to start the car in the first place. I believe you'd have to idle the car for much, much longer than that for the alternator to charge the battery.

I had a similar problem with a flat battery after three or four days of no use, I ended up putting a small solar panel on the inside of the windscreen and plugging it into the 12v accessory socket in the wireless charging area, needless to say I always disconnect and remove it before driving... but it does it's job and starts every time.... 

My Karoq has been unused for 4 weeks, when I checked the battery voltage it was down to 11.7v, managed to start but have now invested in the Ctek C5 Stop/start charger ( ordered from Tanya ), also the cigarette lighter connector (Amazon as was cheaper). As the car is parked in a layby by the house I also  purchased a cable guard ( Toolstation ) to enable me to run an extension cable to the car. Fitted charger and used lighter socket for charging, great piece of kit, was on charge for almost 6 hours and now fully charged. I have since invested in a voltmeter that plugs into the lighter socket and have placed this in the socket in the boot and can just see the voltage from boot window, last reading when looked today was 12.6v.

Hope this helps

 

Our Karoq has been used only once a week since lockdown for the shopping trip, which is 15 minutes out and same back - total of 10 miles. So for the past six weeks has been mainly sitting on the drive. Today it did not start with its usual gusto, so we took it for a 20 minute drive extra en route to shops to help make sure the battery is charged.

 

It helps if the car remains locked and undisturbed, so the software can shutdown non-essential electronics - I think Skoda refer to it as 'sleep mode'.

Although keeping the battery on charger is the safest strategy, a jump starter like these may be the solution for people who can't easily extend the mains to the car.

 

https://no.co/products/power/jumpstarters
I own a GB40 which hasn't seen real use yet. 😊

 

 

Edited 30 April, 20206 yr by agedbriar

@boff180 have any of the ideas requested and suggested worked?

@silver1011 my apologies on not responding, been manic with work.

 

The car would not start again this morning so finally got round to calling out Skoda Assist - they have diagnosed that my MOLL battery is one of the bad batch and has failed.

 

They're fitting a new one FOC tomorrow morning.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

Andy

Brilliant news, glad your fix was a relatively simple one and you're back on the road 👍

I have noticed that when I take the car out after a week of non-use that the auto stop/start does not function. The reason for this in Vehicle Status is that there is a high power consumption, even though all the usual culprits for this (heated seats etc) are off.

 

I am taking this message to mean that battery charging is demanding the power, and the logical extension of this is when your stop/start begins to operate again, your battery is fully charged.

 

Is this an easy check to see if the car thinks your battery is fully charged?

Yep! The operation of Stop/start is a good sign the battery is fine.

Where is the 'mass tab' on a 1.6 automatic 2020? Reg March 2020. The manual shows the same as for my earlier (same) model. The negative tab benind the battery isn't there on the new one, at least it isn't labeled with a negative sign.

The mass tab is a piece of nickelled flat metal bolted to the engine bay wall, behind the battery. No polarity marking that I could see.

See also this picture from a recent thread:

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/uploads/monthly_2020_11/2020-11-06_005225.png.4adb4b5504d78f7507010ffabbc49cdf.png