New tyre needed. Buy 1,2 or 4?

[Ooopnorth]

So, you've got a puncture and it's not repairable, hence a new tyre is required. 

 

Well, according to the Skoda Yeti manual: "When mounting new tires the tires have to be replaced axle by axle" (p150).  

 

That is, Skoda dictates that in these circumstance buying two new tyres is required- gulp!  Indeed, reading about other makes of vehicle (e.g Subaru; Mitsubishi; etc.) any AWD/4X4 car should have all four tyres replaced at the same time - yikes!  Apparently, significant differences in tyre wear can screw up the car's differentials and transfer boxes/viscous couplings.  Interestingly, Skoda aren't claiming this for the Yeti (4X4), so perhaps the transmission system on the Yeti is more forgiving of differences in wheel diameters.  All of this seems a huge expense, aside from the environmental impact.  But then, perhaps, not following this advice could prove even more costly in the longer term if it leads to a shot transmission (and maybe invalidates the warranty)

 

Has anyone any experience of these issues and/or thoughts, opinions on the matter.  I'd be interested to hear.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes, replace both tyres on one axle. For no other reason than safety; do you want to be driving around with a tyre one side that is worn and potentially has less grip?

Plus of course that is what Skoda recommend.

[Ooopnorth]

12 minutes ago, Llanigraham said:

Yes, replace both tyres on one axle. For no other reason than safety; do you want to be driving around with a tyre one side that is worn and potentially has less grip?

Plus of course that is what Skoda recommend.

Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I would definitely agree with that.  I believe you have/have had 'proper' off-roaders with 'real' locking diffs, transfer boxes, etc.  In a similar situation, with these vehicles, would you replace all four tyres?

[Llanigraham]

I've driven various 4x4's for the last 20 years and had off-road training from Land Rover and others, although mostly driven Freelanders and Yetis.

Initial recommendation by LR was to always replace all 4 tyres on the Freelander, due to potential damage to the VCU, however this was soon altered by them to allowing the replacement on either axle in pairs, but always having the tyres with the greatest diameter on the rear axle. I certainly knew people who didn't follow that advice and ended up with big bills!
 

On the Yeti I have always replaced tyres in pairs and have always ensured that the rear tyres are the ones with the greatest tread, so obviously the newest.

[Ooopnorth]

22 minutes ago, Llanigraham said:

I've driven various 4x4's for the last 20 years and had off-road training from Land Rover and others, although mostly driven Freelanders and Yetis.

Initial recommendation by LR was to always replace all 4 tyres on the Freelander, due to potential damage to the VCU, however this was soon altered by them to allowing the replacement on either axle in pairs, but always having the tyres with the greatest diameter on the rear axle. I certainly knew people who didn't follow that advice and ended up with big bills!
 

On the Yeti I have always replaced tyres in pairs and have always ensured that the rear tyres are the ones with the greatest tread, so obviously the newest.

Thanks again LLanigraham - that's helpful.

 

I'm contemplating buying a new(ish) Mitsubishi Shogun Sport.  I've researched the car's online owner's manual and while it gives advice about regular wheel rotation (including incorporating the spare wheel in one set of particular wheel rotation patterns) it doesn't appear to specifically claim all four tyres need replacement when a new tyre is introduced into the set.  Indeed, it makes no mention of this at all.  However, I've read online that for most 4x4s with central locking diffs, this is the norm specified by most manufacturers (definitely for Subaru).  I'll also have to scrutinise the Mitsubishi's warranty details beforehand too, for the small print!  I accept that such a vehicle is never going to be frugal to own, but it's prudent to be aware of all running costs 'up-front', so as to avoid nasty surprises later.  Replacement of tyres on the same axle makes understandable sense and I'm pleased LR are accepting/advocating this as permissible now.

 

Shogun or not, the lovely Yeti is staying with us here, hopefully for a good few more years yet!

[muddyboots]

The Yeti doesn't have a centre diff, it's not a permanent 4x4...it just has a clutch (the Haldex coupling) between front and rear, which engages by varying amounts depending on the circumstances.

It will engage to a high degree when you pull away, accelerate hard, or if wheelspin is detected...the rest of the time it mostly disengages, so the front and rear are effectively disconnected and you're driving a 2wd.

So I assume that is why there is no need to match all four tyres.

 

It's got me thinking now though, I must check the manual for my Yeti's replacement (an A6 Allroad.....which I understand does have a centre diff, although still learning...) to see whether it does advise keeping all 4 tyres even!

[Ooopnorth]

42 minutes ago, muddyboots said:

The Yeti doesn't have a centre diff, it's not a permanent 4x4...it just has a clutch (the Haldex coupling) between front and rear, which engages by varying amounts depending on the circumstances.

It will engage to a high degree when you pull away, accelerate hard, or if wheelspin is detected...the rest of the time it mostly disengages, so the front and rear are effectively disconnected and you're driving a 2wd.

So I assume that is why there is no need to match all four tyres.

 

It's got me thinking now though, I must check the manual for my Yeti's replacement (an A6 Allroad.....which I understand does have a centre diff, although still learning...) to see whether it does advise keeping all 4 tyres even!

That's right.  And it was only when I was also considering another vehicle and not a 'soft-roader that this got me thinking too. 

 

Without wanted to be viewed as overly obsessive on this topic ( ), there was a scenario I read about on the web that seemed plausible and money saving.  If you regularly and carefully incorporate the spare tyre into a 5 wheel cross vehicle rotation (and it would obviously only work for asymmetrical, non-directional tyres and when the spare is full-sized and has matching alloy or steel hubs with the other wheels) you could get aware with keeping the spare on, as per usual 5 wheel rotation, and then using the new tyre as the spare.  You'd have to forgo the 5 wheel rotation at that point,  for a while, as this new spare wheel would have too much tread.  But with fingers crossed, and no further unrepairable punctures during the remain 'life' of the four main tyres; as soon as you eventually replaced them (with the same brand/model etc.,) you'd be back into 5 wheel rotation again and have saved having to have forked out on a set of new tyres prematurely.  However, as mentioned, this doesn't work if the spare is steel and the other wheels alloys, which is usual for most cars.

 

I've also read about tyre "shaving', of the new tyre to match the tread on the remaining  tyres, but I've never heard of that before in the UK for ordinary vehicles.  Seems a bit dodgy to me!

Edited 4 May, 2020 by Ooopnorth

[Parkesie]

Replace a pair and keep the 1 good tyre as a spare, or sell as a part worn some one will get use out of it and you’ll get a few quid back

[silver1011]

What's the difference in tread depth between the punctured tyre and it's replacement (usually around 8mm)?

 

If we're talking 2mm or less I wouldn't be overly concerned. Anything more than that and the advice above is sound, two new tyres and the non-punctured tyre is put up on Gumtree, Facebook Marketplace or eBay.

[kenfowler3966]

Its never going to be 8mm difference, as that is about what they have new, and should be replaced at about 2mm, or indeed 4mm if winter tyres?

 

As you say it is a matter of degree. Prior to my current car they were all owned and maintained by lease companies for years and provided through work. Getting both tyres on an axle changed, let alone all remaining three, if one is damaged is near impossible. It is even difficult to get a matching tyre sometimes on the same axle, as you have to take the make that the lease company is currently getting cheap. This has not been a big issue over the years though as in practice you do not really notice any difference in driving characteristics.

[Llanigraham]

LR advised not to rotate tyres on the Freelander.

[Carlodiesel]

Years back the rotation was frowned at.

The idea is, if you have a tracking or suspension fault, by rotating the wheels, the fault would not show up, but wear the tyres more quickly.

I still keep to leave the wheels where they are.

If you then have a fault, it will be seen & sorted accordingly. 

 

For how many years have we replaced one tyre cos of punctures or tracking issues, & never had a problem.

Look at it reasonably, we have a 70mph speed limit. Most of our tyres are good for 150mph.

 

 

[Ooopnorth]

11 minutes ago, Carlodiesel said:

Years back the rotation was frowned at.

The idea is, if you have a tracking or suspension fault, by rotating the wheels, the fault would not show up, but wear the tyres more quickly.

I still keep to leave the wheels where they are.

If you then have a fault, it will be seen & sorted accordingly. 

 

For how many years have we replaced one tyre cos of punctures or tracking issues, & never had a problem.

Look at it reasonably, we have a 70mph speed limit. Most of our tyres are good for 150mph.

 

 

Yes, I can understand the logic of that too. 

 

My previous Yeti was a 1.8 tsi 4X4 and the tyre wear, front and back, seemed pretty much equal.  Perhaps I drove it with more gusto and so engaged the rear drive more!  My present diesel tends to wear the front tyres relatively more than the rear, (heavier engine?  More sedate demeanour in my agedness?) so I do swap front to back, but never across the vehicle.  That way I end up buying a set of 4 tyres together, once, rather than two pairs, separately.  It makes little difference cost-wise, but saves some time in ordering and arranging them to be fitted, waiting around at the garage, etc..  The time taken to rotate them is negligible as this takes place when I change from winters to summer and vice versa.

 

Thanks for all the replies to this thread and for sharing your thoughts.

[Ooopnorth]

John Cadogan.  Rather annoyingly voiced Aussie guy,  occasionally with a misogynistic line of jokes, but seems to have plenty of auto experience and insight, if you can bear to listen.! This one's on the  topic at hand...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV5cwcABRD4

 

I was also interested to hear that, in his opinion, with manually selectable 4x4s ( i.e not auto or AWD types) the 'varying set of tyre diameters' issue is less problematic.

 

[SurreyJohn]

The simple answer to 1, 2 or 4 is depends on other tyres.

 

If others are virtually new, then 1 obviously 

If others are near end of life then all 4

 

The grey area between depends on tread depth, and age (if low mileage, but over 4 years check for cracking).  Possibly be determined by inability to source a replacement of same type.    
 

The General rule is to keep tread depth no more than 2.5mm or 3mm different (lots of different opinions).  Some say it limits transmission wear, others it affects handling when driving through puddles (and don’t want car pulling to one side).   I suggest you think what is safe on a dark and stormy night.

 

 

 

[Rustynuts]

20 hours ago, Ooopnorth said:

John Cadogan.  Rather annoyingly voiced Aussie guy,  occasionally with a misogynistic line of jokes, but seems to have plenty of auto experience and insight, if you can bear to listen.! This one's on the  topic at hand...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV5cwcABRD4

 

I was also interested to hear that, in his opinion, with manually selectable 4x4s ( i.e not auto or AWD types) the 'varying set of tyre diameters' issue is less problematic.

 

Without even looking I know that link points to John Cadogan, who shouts and swears as loudly as possible to mask the fact that he knows bugger all about what he's talking about.  😅

[Gyp]

1 hour ago, SurreyJohn said:

The simple answer to 1, 2 or 4 is depends on other tyres.

 

If others are virtually new, then 1 obviously 

If others are near end of life then all 4

 

The grey area between depends on tread depth, and age (if low mileage, but over 4 years check for cracking).  Possibly be determined by inability to source a replacement of same type.    
 

The General rule is to keep tread depth no more than 2.5mm or 3mm different (lots of different opinions).  Some say it limits transmission wear, others it affects handling when driving through puddles (and don’t want car pulling to one side).   I suggest you think what is safe on a dark and stormy night.

 

 

 

 

My own slightly different experience with this was when a tyre fitter accidentally fitted the tyres of the wrong profile to my Yeti,

 

I had a set of 4 Michelin CrossClimate and ended up with 225/50 to the front and 225/45 on the rear.

 

Only noticed a few days later when the traction control was getting excessively busy, especially on roundabouts, because of course the car thought the wheels were turning at different speeds

[Rustynuts]

That's a difference of approximately 12 mm tread difference between the front and rear tyres though. So (assuming same size tyres all round) if you had new tyres on the front then the rears would be bald and 4mm worn off the carcass aswell. Clearly that's way more than anyone is ever going to encounter in real world tyre wear.

[Ooopnorth]

I can't find any reference in my Yeti handbook (or warranty notes)  about invalidating the warranty if there's a clear (whatever that might be in depth) tread discrepancy (or mixture of tyre brands) on the vehicle.  However, it seems other vehicle manufacturers have used this as a warranty claim opt out clause for transmission problems.

[Ootohere]

@Ooopnorth

Through the thread you have talked about 4x4's. AWD's and they are different, so it is haldex being discussed so no wonder other manufacturers with different AWD / 4x4 systems say different things.

None of it is really rocket science as to what to do with tyres on the same axles.

Then if you think of maybe a Porsche or BMW x-Drive they might have AWD but different size tyres front and rear. but they have not got Haldex as on a Yeti.

But then an Audi might have similar and might have different tyres front and rear and slightly different rolling circumferences / total diameters.