3 hours ago, Nick_H said:

But ..But ... VALVES !!

Please don't tar all 272s with the same brush....some 272 owners have lovely valves thank you very much 😉😎

 

Also, on topic, cracking work here @newbie69!

Edited 22 May, 20206 yr by boydeee

4 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Merely for comparison.

The R8 might not have twice the power but it has:

 

Twice the engine capacity

Twice the cylinder count

Twice the character to drive (based on my proprietary gauge)

Twice the maintenance cost

Twice the fuel costs, very important to some

Twice the carbon buildup, famous 4.2 engine...

 

To go along with:

Half the doors

Half the deprecation (already done lots of it)

 

Those are the highlights and if I want to spend 35k-50kon a German car,  Guess what, I'll buy a BMW 340 ... 

 

3 minutes ago, KeteCantek said:

The R8 might not have twice the power but it has:

 

Twice the engine capacity

Twice the cylinder count

Twice the character to drive (based on my proprietary gauge)

Twice the maintenance cost

Twice the fuel costs, very important to some

Twice the carbon buildup, famous 4.2 engine...

 

To go along with:

Half the doors

Half the deprecation (already done lots of it)

 

Those are the highlights and if I want to spend 35k-50kon a German car,  Guess what, I'll buy a BMW 340 ... 

 

The R8 also lacks torque so you have to rev it to 8,250rpm to extract maximum performance which results in the poor fuel consumption. Indeed the 317lb/ft is the same as my 2013 Octavia 148bhp diesel after a remap. Stage 1 Superb has 378lb/ft at 2,600rpm so pulls harder at lower revs.

Guys can we please stop sounding like Honda owners??  Let the lovely R8 in piece please, thank you!

 

Revving to 8250rpm is the whole point !

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

The R8 also lacks torque so you have to rev it to 8,250rpm to extract maximum performance which results in the poor fuel consumption. Indeed the 317lb/ft is the same as my 2013 Octavia 148bhp diesel after a remap. Stage 1 Superb has 378lb/ft at 2,600rpm so pulls harder at lower revs.

Power is power. Torque at x rpm give you power. So yes the R8 might have less power at a low rpm but the whole point of a NA engine of that sort (good one besides carbon choking) is to use the revs. 

 

So it'll still have more power stock vs stock ea888. 

 

Now, I know you'll say it so lemme also say that the 4.2v8 cannot be mapped easily for more power like the 2litre. So there's that. Couple grand for a supercharger will change things but then the already **** poor economy will be in the ****ter. 

11 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Even with only 360bhp and more than 3 months since my stage 1 I haven't met one car that could pull away from me.

So how many cars a week do you race?

Guys can we get back on topic and let Shy's derailing statements aside please??

The only reason I spent some time in this thread was to share my findings and help others interested in the new GPF and 7speed DSG remaps as it's been a bit of uncharted territory. There's a very nice thread Shy has that welcomes all sorts of off-topic debates of any nature, from cars to incomes and assets comparisons, I'm sure he'd be glad to explain his views there and get the attention he needs.

Thanks!

Edited 22 May, 20206 yr by newbie69

20 hours ago, KeteCantek said:

Those are the highlights and if I want to spend 35k-50kon a German car,  Guess what, I'll buy a BMW 340 ... 

But the MPG!!!

17 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Guys can we get back on topic and let Shy's derailing statements aside please??

The only reason I spent some time in this thread was to share my findings and help others interested in the new GPF and 7speed DSG remaps as it's been a bit of uncharted territory. There's a very nice thread Shy has that welcomes all sorts of off-topic debates of any nature, from cars to incomes and assets comparisons, I'm sure he'd be glad to explain his views there and get the attention he needs.

Thanks!

Yes I'll stay on topic from now on. 

 

Anyway, 272 owners can look forward to awesome remap performance now. 

 

I wonder what it will be with a downpipe and intercooler... You must have plans for that no? 

31 minutes ago, KeteCantek said:

Yes I'll stay on topic from now on. 

 

Anyway, 272 owners can look forward to awesome remap performance now. 

 

I wonder what it will be with a downpipe and intercooler... You must have plans for that no? 

Yep, the take-away point given all that data I think is that there is at least as much gains to be had from a remap as with pre-GPF cars which was not expected before.

Stage 2 I don't know really. It's always the exact opposite in terms of value for money compared to stage 1: Costs double the money (for a decent dp with a quality cat, and on GPF cars probably even more expensive unless you go GPF delete which I'm not sure how would affect MOT)  for a fraction of the gains. Intercooler again I'm not particularly excited about as I don't do repeated racing or anything similar to worry about heat soak and noticeable performance drop. The other day I did three 100-200 runs with 5 min between each other and I was seeing very similar times.

The only possible next step I see with this car is going for a bigger turbo setup straight away, where the fuss about chaning dp and ic would make sense as the gains would be pretty noticeable. BUT, I would need to be sure I'm spending at least the next 5 years with it in order to commit to such expenses (otherwise in my eyes it's pure madness economically speaking throwing an extra 6K EUR and then selling up 1-2 years later). Stage 1 is fun and already brings it to a whole new level of performance without affecting driveability (car feels 100% stock still), beyond that decisions need to be weighed in more carefully, not only from a cost perspective.

I'm also not convinced it's the right car (for me) to be taking to 500bhp as due to its size and weight, performance would be comparable to ~420-440bhp hot-hatches. For example, I would be pretty gutted to be running a 500bhp BT setup and still struggle to go lower than 8 seconds for 100-200km/h which is what I start to call fast. I'd also like to be running that power in a car that I can also occasionaly track (kind of miss that already). Not impossible to do it in this one either, but again more costly than in other cars which come in a smaller and sportier form.

But who knows, maybe I fall in love with it so much after all that I decide it's a strong keeper and go mad with suspension, brake, performance mods and turn it into a real weapon for everything. Being an MQB car, everything is available for such radical transformations already, the only question is whether it can earn so much love from me to go to such extents with modding...

@newbie69 did you ask to change the power indicator? Or was it set directly by Revo?

32 minutes ago, Roscio said:

@newbie69 did you ask to change the power indicator? Or was it set directly by Revo?

I didn't ask for it but I realized after I replied to that thread that it's probably part of the remap changes: 

The dsg map is most interesting for me.

 

It's odd, it changes faster than I ever could, even managing a bit of a throttle blip on the downshifts... way better than I could ever pretend to try to do.

 

But something is still at odds in how it feels. I've been driving it; albeit not recently, on the paddles and still get myself in a fuddle or leave it too late to shift.  I don't think I'm finding fault with it, rather I think I'm making up a problem in my mind with it and need to concentrate more. I've not needed launch control, thought about trying it one day  I'll make a good paced getaway and that is normally enough. Anyone wanting a 'race' I let them go long before. There will be a real world red flag/yellow flag down the road anyway.

 

I forget @newbie69, did you have a pedal box and the jb4? 

 

I know revo were thinking about some dsg maps...

12 minutes ago, ColinD said:

The dsg map is most interesting for me.

 

It's odd, it changes faster than I ever could, even managing a bit of a throttle blip on the downshifts... way better than I could ever pretend to try to do.

 

But something is still at odds in how it feels. I've been driving it; albeit not recently, on the paddles and still get myself in a fuddle or leave it too late to shift.  I don't think I'm finding fault with it, rather I think I'm making up a problem in my mind with it and need to concentrate more. I've not needed launch control, thought about trying it one day  I'll make a good paced getaway and that is normally enough. Anyone wanting a 'race' I let them go long before. There will be a real world red flag/yellow flag down the road anyway.

 

I forget @newbie69, did you have a pedal box and the jb4? 

 

I know revo were thinking about some dsg maps...

Finally someone paid attention to the DSG map bit!    I get what you're saying and coming from a DQ250 car which I drove mostly on Manual mode I could tell from day one the factory DSG mapping on the DQ381 wasn't as smooth and refined as on the previous box. There are these moments when you're on part throttle or lift-off and request a gear change that seem like they're taking forever for the box to react to paddle input, and when it finally does, it's quite abrupt, as a novice driver operating a manual transmission. This is now 95% fixed (i managed to inflict it once so far but with a quicker response anyway).

Thinking about it now, I think that that made me leave it to D more often than I should have and providing me with an overall more boring "commute only" experience. After the remap I find myself being in control much more often and the car has become more enjoyable and involving. 

I had a JB4 which was sold already to another forum member with a 272. I also have a pedal box, been driving with it on and off to see whether that could go to, and even though pedal response is improved after the remap, I have got used to the pedal box's instant throttle reaction and my foot pressure is now "calibrated" with that effect dialed in so I am probably keeping it on.

REVO have not released any DSG maps yet for this gearbox. They will come for sure at some point but I can't see any reason to move away from TVS as it stands.

Edited 25 May, 20206 yr by newbie69

Yeah I think I may try that, and the pedal box... then worry about a tuning box or remap. Although my plan is for longevity, a 10+ year ownership. I have no problems with it blowing up on 10 years + 1 day because it will be worth naff all. I do if it blows up on 3years + 1 day. So subtle considered improvements for those 30 - 70 dashes around an artic lorry/caravan and mpg be damned, I've got a tank of time and that tank never gets refilled. 

Did you get the TVS map from them directly?

1 hour ago, ColinD said:

Yeah I think I may try that, and the pedal box... then worry about a tuning box or remap. Although my plan is for longevity, a 10+ year ownership. I have no problems with it blowing up on 10 years + 1 day because it will be worth naff all. I do if it blows up on 3years + 1 day. So subtle considered improvements for those 30 - 70 dashes around an artic lorry/caravan and mpg be damned, I've got a tank of time and that tank never gets refilled. 

Did you get the TVS map from them directly?

Just keep in mind any DSG map will void the warranty on the gearbox. That been said, there's no way a DSG remap on a car running stock power could cause issues, quite the opposite as it enhances thermal management, but if say, you were to have a faulty unit that would anyway go bang, it's almost sure the warranty work would be denied on grounds of altered software.

As I wrote to you elsewhere, If D mode is the issue try using S more often and see if it resolves it a bit. Even remapped, D mode is always outside of the optimal power band (targeting economy and all) for full blast, and even though it reacts faster than before, I still don't rely on it when I am upping the pace, instead i either switch to S or Manual.

(again as I wrote elsewhere ) JB4 and pedal box: Just get them and stop procrastinating! I still haven't found one person to have regretted them. Amazing transformation for the cost and for being removable and re-sell-able for a good percentage of their buying cost, as long as you don't strive for every last drop of performance 

5 hours ago, ColinD said:

The dsg map is most interesting for me.

For now I can confirm what @newbie69 has already said. Much more reactive, especially in S. In D I found it very slow but in my case the problem is accentuated by slow spool of the big turbo. Maybe after setting the right stage3 map it will be more comfortable even in D.

Another consideration over my custom DSG map: with increased clamping pressure now I have a more rude upshifting than the original, especially in M mode. But perhaps with TVS this problem does not exist!

Just now, Roscio said:

Another consideration over my custom DSG map: with increased clamping pressure now I have a more rude upshifting than the original, especially in M mode. But perhaps with TVS this problem does not exist!

It's probably a matter of stage. With the Stage 2+ TVS map all gear changes are smoother under every condition. Dealer had asked whether I'd like to go Stage 3 DSG but he said there could be more harsh gear changes as the pressure increases even more. According to TVS up to stage 2 pressure increases by 15-16bar, whereas stage 3 takes it up to 19bar.




I'm sure you are running a more aggressive DSG map than my stage 2+ as yous should be set up for stage 3 torque levels of 600Nm+,  hence the rougher changes.

For sure it's an aggressive DSG map... even if my final request is not to exceed 550 nm of torque. I'll ask how much has pressure been increased, i'm curious about it...

7 hours ago, ColinD said:

Yeah I think I may try that, and the pedal box... then worry about a tuning box or remap. Although my plan is for longevity...

 

Can I just say what a vast psychological difference a pedal box makes. To have instant response under your foot with an engine that makes decent power anyway, could save you a goodly amount of money and worry in the end. 

I made a recording for a friend who asked to check out a video of the standstill acceleration the other day.

The rear camera view is where one can get a better idea of the ferocity of the launching from 0 km/h (even though it should have been pointing more towards the passenger window , i know now )

 

 

That's brutal! I'll definitely go that way in few months!:)

45 minutes ago, didoya said:

That's brutal! I'll definitely go that way in few months!:)

It's not bad! The most impressive bit is the 0-30/50km/h, it doesn't accelerate in the traditional fashion, it's more like it's catching on a passing train or as if someone kicked you from the back   This is obvious also by comparing the 0-30 part vs 500bhp cars that do 0-100 in as low as 3.2", their logs are available via the Dragy leaderboard and you can see that they hit 1G of acceleration even later than the Superb and that their 0-30 time is at best equivalent, meaning the actual launch part is as good as it can get really. Of-course those continue to hit hard for longer and end up with a faster time but at least the beginning is just as good.

This is almost entirely down to the TVS map on the DSG, the launch was nowhere near as quick and efficient on the stock DSG even with 340bhp and 430Nm, there were hiccups on the 1st to 2nd gear change due to DQ381's quirks. But after the map the car's launches and gear changes just "flow".

Edited 4 June, 20206 yr by newbie69

On 04/06/2020 at 10:49, newbie69 said:

I made a recording for a friend who asked to check out a video of the standstill acceleration the other day.

The rear camera view is where one can get a better idea of the ferocity of the launching from 0 km/h (even though it should have been pointing more towards the passenger window , i know now )

 

 

Brilliant. Love that username too... Lol