Hello, hope everyone is well and safe. I was going to lease a Skoda Superb Estate 2.0 TDI SEL 150 hp manual gearbox, just before lockdown. Then it happened and I postponed. My partners PCP Kia Sportage is being handed back in September, so Ill be getting a new lease Skoda for then.

Ive been on the lease companies website earlier today and spotted one of their specials was a 2.0 TSI 190 HP DSG. This is also within my budget.

I test drove an L&K one with the diesel engine, a while ago and was impressed with performance and comfort.

I was just wondering what peoples experiences were with the different engines? 

 

 

@Okami01

Welcome to the forum.

 

A mod might move the thread to the Superb MK3 section and someone can maybe help.

What sort of mileage are you doing, diesel is more suited to longer journeys, HOWEVER more important is which one you prefer the drive of. 
 

I personally prefer how a diesel pulls (after electric that is!)

I’ve had both. TDI is torquey, frugal’ish and noisy. TSI is less torquey, not as frugal and quiet.

The TDI was a 170PS (168 HP) mapped to 230BHP and was boring.

The TSI is 276 BHP (at the moment!) and is a rocketship, but I’m still getting a real 31mpg so I’m happy.. the TDI gave a real 38.

So I have a four year old car which cost £38k new, which I bought for half that with 21,000 miles and I love it.  I can’t wait to fit a BMS box, which’ll give 340bhp. 

4 hours ago, Gizmo said:

What sort of mileage are you doing, diesel is more suited to longer journeys, HOWEVER more important is which one you prefer the drive of. 
 

I personally prefer how a diesel pulls (after electric that is!)

There isn't much of a difference between both as turbocharged petrol has a good torque curve. 

 

More relevant is the use case. If many journeys are short , diesel is asking for trouble

4 hours ago, Gizmo said:

What sort of mileage are you doing, diesel is more suited to longer journeys, HOWEVER more important is which one you prefer the drive of. 
 

I personally prefer how a diesel pulls (after electric that is!)

About 10k a year, maybe a tad less. I test drove an L&K 2.0 diesel 190 ps and was amazed at the grunt. 

18 minutes ago, KeteCantek said:

There isn't much of a difference between both as turbocharged petrol has a good torque curve. 

 

More relevant is the use case. If many journeys are short , diesel is asking for trouble

I had a VW Golf 1.4 tsi about 7 years ago, it spent more time in the garage than on the road. Interesting, most of my journeys will be short ones. 

9 minutes ago, Okami01 said:

I had a VW Golf 1.4 tsi about 7 years ago, it spent more time in the garage than on the road. Interesting, most of my journeys will be short ones. 

The 190 TSI is a 2.0 ea888 with wet clutch dsg so will be better. The 1.4tsi of that time is a dog and if you got the dsg..Lol. 

 

Anyway, checked and the 190 has 320nm from 1500rpm. Peak power at 4700rpm. 

 

150tdi makes peak 340nm at 1750rpm. 

 

So anyone concerned about low end power should not be worried either way. 

 

Edut: Also checked 190tdi and that has 400nm from 1750rpm. Bit more but not significantly more. 

 

Lots of short journeys will probably cause lots of dpf regeneration . Best case it regens successfully at the cost of more fuel use. Worse case dpf gets clogged early plus all those fuel used to try and regen

Edited 30 May, 20206 yr by KeteCantek

they, who can't hear TDI tractoring sound, can save 30% of money on each mile.
I vote for TSI!
similar tread -> https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/479483-which-should-i-get-tsi-vs-tdi-which-gearbox/?tab=comments#comment-5382173

 

I have heard a few petrol vRS’s (not sure if they are TSi or TFSi) that sound more rattly than my TDi!

 

For shorter journeys TSi would be my choice as the TDi will not be warm until you have covered around 7 miles, 10 mile+ journeys then I would still consider a TDi (but a 190 though).

 

FWIW my mapped (so 220 / 505Nm) TDi felt equally as quick (real world driving not a 0 - 60 traffic lights GP) than a friends 280, obviously mine also returns better MPG too (never lower than 45, normally around 50) my journeys are normally 20+ miles. Thats not to say the 280 was bad, far from it, but even a std 190 (400 Nm) has a good chunk of more torque which is what is more important for normal driving.

There is 12 months of road works near work (up until Xmas) and cameras are used over the 2 mile stretch at 30mph on what was a dual carriageway but we are both using the same side and after 2 miles of chugging in 4th gear in our 1.5TSi Karoq it can do a remarkable 54mpg and my 360bhp Superb (2.0TSi DSG) in 5th gear can hit 36mpg in just 2 miles which even a diesel Superb would struggle to match.

3 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

There is 12 months of road works near work (up until Xmas) and cameras are used over the 2 mile stretch at 30mph on what was a dual carriageway but we are both using the same side and after 2 miles of chugging in 4th gear in our 1.5TSi Karoq it can do a remarkable 54mpg and my 360bhp Superb (2.0TSi DSG) in 5th gear can hit 36mpg in just 2 miles which even a diesel Superb would struggle to match.

 

Not sure how the fuel consumption on a Karoq has anything to do with this thread?

 

On the return from Mansfield to Kent (after the remap) my Superb was showing 60 MPG... at NSL with a few blasts from standstill to see how she went.

I’m sure if I could be bother to look at the average MPG over 2 miles @ a steady 30 MPH it would be stupidly high (the faster you go the more fuel you use), however as that would be pointless I don’t bother. 

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

 

Not sure how the fuel consumption on a Karoq has anything to do with this thread?

 

On the return from Mansfield to Kent (after the remap) my Superb was showing 60 MPG... at NSL with a few blasts from standstill to see how she went.

I’m sure if I could be bother to look at the average MPG over 2 miles @ a steady 30 MPH it would be stupidly high (the faster you go the more fuel you use), however as that would be pointless I don’t bother. 

Just demonstrating petrol engines get to peak efficiency much quicker than a diesel. Owned a 1.4TSi ACT Superb in 2016 and best on my 27 mile commute was 64.6mpg and best tank was 800 miles just commuting, no long journeys. It consistently gave an average of 50mpg.

+1 for 190tdi once the majority of journeys are in the 10 mile plus range

9 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Just demonstrating petrol engines get to peak efficiency much quicker than a diesel. Owned a 1.4TSi ACT Superb in 2016 and best on my 27 mile commute was 64.6mpg and best tank was 800 miles just commuting, no long journeys. It consistently gave an average of 50mpg.

Yes, in winter, short journeys will absolutely muller the TDI fuel consumption figures as they won't reach operating temperature fast enough.  

 

End of the day, if mainly doing short journeys, TDI is to be avoided for many reasons.  Don't be fooled by the fuel costs. They are only a small part of the equation unless one does mega miles each year. The best way to save money isn't by choosing a diesel over a petrol, it's to buy a cheaper car to start with. 

1 hour ago, Markbro said:

+1 for 190tdi once the majority of journeys are in the 10 mile plus range

24 hours to cover 700 miles. Surely an electric Nissan Leaf could beat that.

2 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

24 hours to cover 700 miles. Surely an electric Nissan Leaf could beat that.

Are they exempt from speed limits and the constraints of urban areas?

32 minutes ago, KeteCantek said:

Yes, in winter, short journeys will absolutely muller the TDI fuel consumption figures as they won't reach operating temperature fast enough.  

 

You know what, I have always found the opposite to be true between petrol & diesel engines and its been thoroughly validated over 20 years and hundreds of thousands of miles obsessively regarding both the average and instantaneous fuel consumption.

 

What you say is true for a petrol engine, it need enrichment of the fuel/air ratio until the engine is up to operating temperature or combustion will fail, and those of us old enough to have driven with carburettors & manual chokes will know all too well.

 

By comparison in simplistic terms once a diesel engine has started the combustion chamber is at operating temperature for compression ignition and there is no further enrichment needed, in practice on modern diesels there is post combustion glow plug operation and possibly limited partial enrichment for a very short period for emissions, also when the coolant is warming it will be using fuel to heat it and the engine block.

 

With petrol engine you will never see anywhere close to the normal fuel economy on short journeys, only after the engine has reached operating temp, granted that is quicker than a diesel because so much heat energy is wasted, my diesel will return full mpg after 400m as soon as I can get into top gear, I can drive the 2.5km through my village on the flat route at the 50 kph limit and the fuel computer will be showing 70 mpg and thats including a cold standing start, after that it will fall as soon as I am on 80 kph roads unless I continue to drive at 50 kph.

 

I havn't driven a modern generation petrol but am convinced I would not see the above and very much doubt that I would be able to engage top gear at low speeds until warmed, the raised idle speed would prevent it.

@J.R.

You should try a 1.0 TSI GPF  with 7 speed DSG and see how quick up the gears and into 7th.

As to cold weather / cold air, cold dry roads, going far enough then Turbo or Supercharged Petrols and diesels love that conditions

you just need to be driving far enough. which makes up for any warming up time.

Edited 31 May, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

Agreed but if you are not & do the worst thing for any I.C. engine, very short journeys, school runs etc then a petrol engines fuel economy is very compromised compared to a diesel.

 

That said with EU4/5/6 diesels, DPF's etc short journeys are definitely a no-no in a diesel.

 

Its all turned on its head.

Sorry, we are not helping @Okami01 with this.

VW were right with Twin Chargers as they could half the CC or engines and get the performance of the big turbo petrols and the economy of diesels.

But they messed up penny pinching and Volvo and others did it more successfully. 

Now we have Electric Superchargers and 48 volts, Starter / Waterpumps etc managing to have petrols with lower emissions and great fuel economy.

Well under testing.

As it was VW / Audi were going TDI Hybrids and built the factories in Hungary and South America, all ready to ramp up production and then got caught with Defeat Devices.

20 hours ago, Okami01 said:

About 10k a year, maybe a tad less. I test drove an L&K 2.0 diesel 190 ps and was amazed at the grunt. 

Hi Okami01.

If you are only going to cover 10k miles pa it has to be a petrol car over a diesel. A 2.0TSi 190 or even a 1.5TSi 150 should be more than adequate & more suited to the low mileage than a diesel. If you want so save a bit drop down to the new petrol Octavia & go for a higher spec which is only a tad smaller than the Superb. New generation petrol engines are so much better & fuel efficient than previous versions. Diesels do not like regular short journeys. 

 

I switched back to petrol (Superb 280 L&K combi) last year after 20+ years of diesel cars for work & commuting. My last diesel was a series II 2010 Superb 170 TDi Elegance DSG combi which I used for an 80 mile daily commute (35k+ miles pa) which regularly returned 60+ mpg or higher. I'm now retired so my annual mileage is way less than 10k pa so diesel was no longer my best option. So I traded the series II Superb in at 160,000 miles for a 2.5 year old 2.0TSi 280 L&K with 25K on the clock for less than half its original list price. The 280 is currently returning around 25 mpg but is only used for local short journeys at present (or not at all at the moment). Plans for any touring holidays have been put on hold for the foreseeable future.

Result. Increased fuel consumption but less mileage overall so around a 50% fuel saving from when I was working - even when using 99 Octane Shell V Power fuel. Added to that a big grin every time I flick it into sport mode & exploit the full power & grip of the 4 x 4 system. I feel an engine remap might also be needed but that's another story.

I started out driving petrol cars in 1971 (because diesels weren't available then). I then switched to diesels out of necessity for company car tax reasons or privately funded for work mileage use. I now drive a petrol out of personal choice.  I also doubt if I will ever make the jump to electric either. Far too expensive, range anxiety & limited re-charge facilities are still issues for me - but mainly the cost.  

the Superb 280 I have now will probably be my last car.      

Very simple, and I have a TDI on order.

 

Short journeys all the time = petrol.

 

If you want economy and do a decent length trip 2 or 3 times a month then diesel is fine, even if you only do 10k  a year, it is the way you use it that is important and not the total mileage.  10k in 30 mile journeys is different to 10k in 1 mile trips to the shops and once in a blue moon to the coast.

 

I may be dropping from 25k a year to 10-15 due to more home working, would probably still stick with a diesel.

I do 25,000 miles a year, I've therefore in the last ten years only ever owned diesel's.

 

Not anymore, when my current diesel car expires it is highly unlikely I'll be buying another.

 

The 15,000 mile break even point myth suggesting that anyone covering more annual mileage will be financially advantaged by running a diesel is long since dead. The meagre fuel consumption differences between diesel and petrol is closing, the government are already penalising diesel vehicles and the increased non-fuel related running costs associated with diesel will easily eat up any paltry fuel savings.

 

By the time we're in a position to look back at and appreciate the effects of Coronavirus we'll all already be covering less mileage. Those of us that haven't been made redundant will either be working from home or looking at other methods of transport. My local council has closed roads and put in several restrictions to facilitate social distancing, and has already hinted that some of them may never be lifted.

 

Unless you regularly tow, have some unsavoury fetish for diesel or the price is a steal then I can't imagine why anyone would consider one at the moment.

 

As for the OP, under 10,000 miles a year? Then diesel should never have been on the list, even before the current global crisis.

Also, the 190 Diesel needs Ad-blue to meet emissions target.

 

I have a 150 TDI and do 10,000 miles a year, but most of my journeys are 100+ miles, I use a bike or public transport for local stuff.