Advice please on battery problem

[Phidan]

Hi - I've got a 2011 1.8 TSI Elegance that I bought used. There was no handbook with it and none of the online manual downloads seem to work any more, so I'm mostly flying blind.

 

Two days ago, the car wouldn't start. It appeared to be the battery, so I called out Gem and got a jump start. The guy tested the battery and said it was time for a replacement. He also said the battery was a stop-start one, which surprised me because the car doesn't have stop-start capability. Anyway, I rang ATS to enquire about a new battery. I didn't mention the old battery was stop-start, as I assumed the previous owner installed it by mistake (?)  ATS said they had a suitable replacement in stock, but couldn't fit it for 5 days as they were busy. I said I'd just buy it and fit it myself, which I did, and ran it for a few miles - all fine. That was yesterday. Today, the car won't start again - looks like the new battery is flat. The door opened electrically, but when I put the key in the ignition, nothing, not even a click. I took the key out and put it in again, the needles flicked halfway, then dropped back. Nothing showing on the display, although when I opened the door, the 'door open' indicator came on, but that was about all.

 

Have I done something wrong installing the battery? I checked the terminals were tight. Should I have replaced it with another stop-start battery (the one I put in is a calcium 540A)? I've been reading online that some new batteries need coding - I don't know anything about that. Is it something I can do myself? Once I've got the car going again, that is.

 

Any advice greatly appreciated.

[AGFalco]

What type of battery was fitted. AGM, EFB?

 

What type of battery has been fitted?

 

Was the alternator checked for charging?

 

Do the headlight work?

 

Thanks AG Falco

[BigEjit]

Things to check,

 

First thing, If you have access to a digital volt meter, what is the battery voltage currently?

Are there any accessories plugged into the vehicle or added to the electrics, quick and easy to check.

 

Possibly looking at one of the following reasons.

1, Internally shorted battery (New battery internal faults show very quickly within the first few engine starts)

2, Goosed alternator/charging circuit fault.

3, Something in the vehicle not switching off discharging the battery.

4, The battery wasn't that well charged to begin with and is now discharged from not having enough engine run time.

 

Also, stick up a photo of the battery so we can see what it is.

 

 

Edited 20 June, 2020 by BigEjit

[Phidan]

Thanks for replies. Picture of the new battery attached, fitted only yesterday.

 

Headlights not working. Alternator wasn't checked. No access to a digital meter at the moment to check voltage, hopefully tomorrow.

 

[BigEjit]

Perfect! (Standard SLI flooded battery.)
 

If the voltmeter shows 10.5v +\- 0.3, it’s a shorted cell ref issue No 1 above, return it to the retailer for an exchange.

 

You will need a battery charger if the voltmeter shows any other voltage below 12.2v and a charge time up to 24 hrs if showing something like 5v.

Ref 2, 3, 4 above.

 

Once charged and you still have a problem, you are looking at issues related to No’s 2 and 3 above (most likely No 3).

 

[superbdreams]

If the car has the battery control module, the battery  will also need to be coded to reset the charging parameters.

Not all cars have the module but all cars fitted with an AGM battery at the factory do I believe.

There may have been an existing fault when you bought the car and someone fitted an old agm they had spare perhaps.

entering your registration into an online battery seller should identify what type your car should have.

[Phidan]

Quick update. Firstly, the new battery came up as suitable on the ATS site when I entered my reg. Also, I've checked the terminal leads for corrosion and they look fine (see pics). I trickle charged the new battery last night, put it back this morning and took for a 25 mile drive to (hopefully) charge. We'll see what happens when I come to start it tomorrow morning. 

[varaderoguy]

You will definately need to code in the battery - find the forums where the closest person to you has a VCDS system - get your battery coded in - then your charging problems will probably go away.

[AGFalco]

3 hours ago, varaderoguy said:

You will definately need to code in the battery

 

If you look at the photo of the fitted battery, too points come to mind.

 

The battery looks too small for the hole, I would guess a 096 battery might also fit, at 278 mm long?

There is only one connection on the negative terminal suggesting that there is no battery management system fitted.

 

Thanks AG Falco

[rover220]

On 21/06/2020 at 09:18, superbdreams said:

If the car has the battery control module, the battery  will also need to be coded to reset the charging parameters.

Not all cars have the module but all cars fitted with an AGM battery at the factory do I believe.

There may have been an existing fault when you bought the car and someone fitted an old agm they had spare perhaps.

entering your registration into an online battery seller should identify what type your car should have.

 

there is no shunt on the negative terminal so no smart electrics on this car

[rover220]

12 hours ago, varaderoguy said:

You will definately need to code in the battery - find the forums where the closest person to you has a VCDS system - get your battery coded in - then your charging problems will probably go away.

 

you do not need to code the battery, he has no battery monitor so will make not a jot of difference.

[Phidan]

Another update: I've established that the car doesn't have smart electrics capability, so no coding was needed. It started OK today after its run yesterday, so I took it back to ATS for them to check the battery. It was OK and they also checked the alternator, and it's charging at just over 13v, so that seems OK too. So still no clue as to why a new battery should be flat the day after it being fitted, or why the previous battery suddenly went flat without warning when it had been fine up til then. I definitely left nothing connected that might be a drain, I'm always very careful about that. Anyway, at the moment it seems to be firing up okay, so I guess it's a case of watch and wait. Thanks again to everybody who has helped so far.

[AGFalco]

2 hours ago, Phidan said:

and it's charging at just over 13v,

 

You want about 14V with the engine running not 13V.

This might suggest the alternator is not working correctly.

 

Thanks AG Falco

 

[Carlston]

You need a multimeter or voltmeter to check the battery voltage.

 

Check the battery voltage with the engine idling. It should be about 14V to 14.4V. If so, that means that your alternator/charging system is working.

 

If your alternator/charging system is working, you might have a problem with faulty electrical equipment draining your battery at a fast rate overnight when the car isn't being used. You could check this by disconnecting the negative terminal from your battery as soon as you finish a long journey (perhaps at least 30 minutes) and checking the voltage in the morning. You could also charge your battery with a battery charger. If your battery voltage is still good in the morning, perhaps over 12.5V then that means your battery is ok, and some faulty electrical equipment is draining your battery overnight when the positive and negative terminals are connected.

 

 

[J.R.]

You may have a diode failure in the alternator, it would explain why the charging voltage is low and why there is a high quiescent current consumption.

 

Try disconnecting the alternator overnight to see if the battery retains its charge.

[Phidan]

Here's the latest - it gets better (not): Following advice, I checked the voltages - 12.4 engine off, 14.3 with engine running, so it looks like the alternator is working and it seems to be starting OK now. But yesterday while giving it a run, the EPC light came on and it began running rough.  Same today (the engine light also came on for a few seconds) - EPC light is on and it's running rough. Anybody want to buy a car....☹️

[Phidan]

Spark plugs, perhaps?

 

[bigjohn]

On 27/06/2020 at 13:18, Phidan said:

EPC light is on and it's running rough

 

Ah - possibly a clue - faulty brake light switch? A faulty one can confuse the hell out of the engine electronic control and can flatten a battery if you end up parking with brake lights on. 

 

 

Just a thought - used to be a common fail on earlier VAG cars - but I suspect this is a hall effect device rather than a switch as such, however.....

 

Question - is your cruise control working?

Edited 28 June, 2020 by bigjohn

[AGFalco]

On 27/06/2020 at 13:18, Phidan said:

I checked the voltages - 12.4 engine off,

 

I would expect to see more than that with a new charged battery.

 

Thanks AG Falco