Oil consumption dilemma

[OctaviaVRS1980]

Ok so I bought my Skoda Octavia 2011 vrs 2nd hand from a Skoda dealer in Melbourne before I emigrated in June 2016. A gamble but turned out great. 

 

She has been a wonderful member of the family going from 77k to 160k effortlessly. Apart from one coil pack Skoda replaced under warranty she has not missed a beat. Always used oil but within spec and thus was tested by the garage. I have always had some in the boot for peace of mind. 

 

However, In the last 3-4 months she has been drinking oil at quite a rate. It got as bad as not going for much more than 700-800km off one 900ml topup. I think one top up barely covered 500-600km. However, the car drives fine. A month or so ago it did smoke a little on hard revS but this has gone and I’ve given her a few 0-100kmh thrashes hot and cold to confirm it. No more smoke. Engine smooth, all power there. 
 

Having spoke to a local euro specialist Indy on the Coast, I decided to To swap the PCV valve. He confirmed that the plugs were oily when this got done. After a PCV valve change her last oil consumption was 800km for a 900ml top up. 
 

What am I to do?
 

The Indy was thinking this could be one of the bad  earlier TSI Engines he has seen many of. 

 

She has got to 163k and is due for 165k service soon and will need new front tyres before that. 
 

The only thing she might have missed in the service history is spark plugs - not done since 60k.

 

The only other thing I can think of his since April I’ve worked from home and she has done a lot less kms. Certainly not getting 2-3 runs up the Bruce to Cabbo and back I was doing for work. But does get an occasional longer trip to city and the like. 

 

Options

 

1)Take it to the main dealer for things like compression tests and other tests?

2)Keep her, run her as normal and hope for the best. 

3)Trade in

 

What would you do if it was your car? No judgement I’m just seeking some views. 2 is the easiest and most likely. 

[Guest]

If it's otherwise okay performance/emissions-wise but oil consumption exceeds specification take the under cover off and inspect the engine for leaks and consider having a compression and leak down test.

 

It's possible that a bad valve guide(s) is letting oil past and that will be cheaper to rectify than worn pistons/rings/bores.

[AVHreplica]

What oil exactly have used and in every what distance did you  performe  changes?

Have you been using another oil  marque and changed lately when noticed the higher consumption?

 

 

[OctaviaVRS1980]

9 hours ago, MicMac said:

If it's otherwise okay performance/emissions-wise but oil consumption exceeds specification take the under cover off and inspect the engine for leaks and consider having a compression and leak down test.

 

It's possible that a bad valve guide(s) is letting oil past and that will be cheaper to rectify than worn pistons/rings/bores.

Thanks. What’s the hall park cost of compression test and leak down test? At a main dealer. 

[OctaviaVRS1980]

4 hours ago, AkisVH said:

What oil exactly have used and in every what distance did you  performe  changes?

Have you been using another oil  marque and changed lately when noticed the higher consumption?

 

 

Hi there.

 

its always used For European Car branded Penrite/Nulon/Castrol at the right spec - 5W-30. Nulon is VW 504 low SAPS I understand. Penrite is mid SAPS.
 

She gets a full oil change at the main dealer every 15k. I top up (700-900ml) every time light comes on. This used to be every 2k or so for a long time but last few months it’s been every 800km...

 

I’m not very mechanically capable but happy to do what I can or pay someone I trust decent money to do it. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, OctaviaVRS1980 said:

Thanks. What’s the hall park cost of compression test and leak down test? At a main dealer. 

Bloody galah, I'm on the other side of the planet!

Edited 25 August, 2020 by MicMac

[OctaviaVRS1980]

1 hour ago, MicMac said:

Bloody galah, I'm on the other side of the planet!

😂

[TheClient]

21 hours ago, OctaviaVRS1980 said:

 

What am I to do?
 

The Indy was thinking this could be one of the bad  earlier TSI Engines he has seen many of. 

 

Options

 

1)Take it to the main dealer for things like compression tests and other tests?

2)Keep her, run her as normal and hope for the best. 

3)Trade in

 

What would you do if it was your car? No judgement I’m just seeking some views. 2 is the easiest and most likely. 

 

Hi welcome  @OctaviaVRS1980.

 

Just to set the scene, I have the same year and model car having owned it from 2016 when it had 33k miles.  I also researched the engine and issues before buying and I was very careful having read these forums and GTI mk6 forums which share the same engine. But it was still a risk.

 

You probably don't want to hear what my view is but it based on a lot of reading and lot of posts and the sticky thread at the front of mk2 forum on engine failures.

 

The EA888 gen 2 is a problematic engine in a couple of ways - as your mechanic points out.

 

1. The tensioners, multiply superseded could result in total engine destruction in the blink of an eye. They were poorly designed, poorly engineered and could end the car in a blink of an eye. If your engine still has the original revision made with the car you are on a when, not if scenario...

 

2. This generation engine in both 1.8 and 2.0 vRS guise had terrible ring design specifically the scraper rings which become clogged and eventually cause horrific oil consumption which then causes all the other problems with that and eventual engine failure.

 

Anecdotally, it seems to me more 1.8 have been affected but maybe jsut because there are more in circulation.  There is aslo TPIs covering the 1.8 with modified pistons, conrods and rings which is a big job indeed to rectify. I have not seen an equivalent TPI for the 2.0. So take from that what you will.

 

My engine is at 70k miles, it has always been on fixed servicing 7k - 8k miles.  I run VW 502.00 5W40. which may improve your consumption a little but given the readings I wouldn't be too hopeful! Mine had a visible oil leak around the turbo air intake that used to drip onto the drive shaft.  Eventually after rulling everything else out a new Fine Oil separator / PCV fixed that.

 

Some more technically minded and engineering centric posters have explained to me TPIs from other europe destination prescribed a specific ACEA rating for engine oils which from memory was A3 Mid saps to help with carbon cleanliness. They also prescribed time and distance servicing only - to manage issues.  So those are factors that if not followed can make the situation worse earlier...

 

So back to your 3 options.

 

1. It is only worth going down testing if you are willing to spend money.  Even if it was head work only, which I doubt it is, guessing Oz pricing maybe $2k and up.  Much more if rings and bore need work...  You also need to consider if you have a garage who is technically competent and experienced as they are a very complicated engine to work on.

 

I also would not work on the basis of compression tests being totally definitive.  Many oil consumers have reported decnent compression until the oil consumption became totally horrific as the sealing rings still provide compression but huge amounts of oil passess.  I would also check turbo seals to rule that out as a contributor if I was doing diagnostics.

 

2. She will die eventually and almost 1l of oil in under 1000km is a lot of oil. The engine can not cope with that if it is being burned.

 

3. The easiest option, but someone else will end up with your problem!

 

edit.  Mine uses 0.5 to 1L in service intervals up to 8k miles.  I don't always top up over that duration, the oil light does not come on but if I don't it will be towards the bottom of dipstick.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 August, 2020 by TheClient

[TheClient]

Changed plugs at beginning of August. These had done about 30k miles. Clean and operating ok. But gap had increased to about 0.9mm.. 

[edbostan]

19 minutes ago, TheClient said:

Changed plugs at beginning of August. These had done about 30k miles. Clean and operating ok. But gap had increased to about 0.9mm.. 

The threads are dry so they look good. 

[Aj77]

I think you can add UV dye to the engine allowing you to see oil leaks much easier.

[TheClient]

53 minutes ago, edbostan said:

The threads are dry so they look good. 

Yes, I've got the original bosch photo somewhere I changed at 37k.  They looked much the same. Insulator or eletrode nice and clean. No carbon fouling around electrodes. No signs of overheating.  These are a standard heat rating 7 NGK plug too. Compare that to the way the (edit Bosch 7) which is an NGK 5 equivalent, i.e 2 heat grades higher. 

 

Look in the thread on engine failures whilst still installed in the head with it on the bench. Clearly the engine in that post is consuming significant oil.

 

OP - do you have photos of your plugs, have you removed to inspect. With that oil usage they probably won't be pretty.

Edited 25 August, 2020 by TheClient

[OctaviaVRS1980]

12 hours ago, TheClient said:

Yes, I've got the original bosch photo somewhere I changed at 37k.  They looked much the same. Insulator or eletrode nice and clean. No carbon fouling around electrodes. No signs of overheating.  These are a standard heat rating 7 NGK plug too. Compare that to the way the (edit Bosch 7) which is an NGK 5 equivalent, i.e 2 heat grades higher. 

 

Look in the thread on engine failures whilst still installed in the head with it on the bench. Clearly the engine in that post is consuming significant oil.

 

OP - do you have photos of your plugs, have you removed to inspect. With that oil usage they probably won't be pretty.

no photos but the Indy who did the PCV swap said they were oily. 
 

Am I basically running an engine on oil and petrol? Don’t see any oil leaks externally or obvious from looking too down into engine bay. I just keep thinking “where is all the oil going?”

[OctaviaVRS1980]

15 hours ago, TheClient said:

 

Hi welcome  @OctaviaVRS1980.

 

Just to set the scene, I have the same year and model car having owned it from 2016 when it had 33k miles.  I also researched the engine and issues before buying and I was very careful having read these forums and GTI mk6 forums which share the same engine. But it was still a risk.

 

You probably don't want to hear what my view is but it based on a lot of reading and lot of posts and the sticky thread at the front of mk2 forum on engine failures.

 

The EA888 gen 2 is a problematic engine in a couple of ways - as your mechanic points out.

 

1. The tensioners, multiply superseded could result in total engine destruction in the blink of an eye. They were poorly designed, poorly engineered and could end the car in a blink of an eye. If your engine still has the original revision made with the car you are on a when, not if scenario...

 

2. This generation engine in both 1.8 and 2.0 vRS guise had terrible ring design specifically the scraper rings which become clogged and eventually cause horrific oil consumption which then causes all the other problems with that and eventual engine failure.

 

Anecdotally, it seems to me more 1.8 have been affected but maybe jsut because there are more in circulation.  There is aslo TPIs covering the 1.8 with modified pistons, conrods and rings which is a big job indeed to rectify. I have not seen an equivalent TPI for the 2.0. So take from that what you will.

 

My engine is at 70k miles, it has always been on fixed servicing 7k - 8k miles.  I run VW 502.00 5W40. which may improve your consumption a little but given the readings I wouldn't be too hopeful! Mine had a visible oil leak around the turbo air intake that used to drip onto the drive shaft.  Eventually after rulling everything else out a new Fine Oil separator / PCV fixed that.

 

Some more technically minded and engineering centric posters have explained to me TPIs from other europe destination prescribed a specific ACEA rating for engine oils which from memory was A3 Mid saps to help with carbon cleanliness. They also prescribed time and distance servicing only - to manage issues.  So those are factors that if not followed can make the situation worse earlier...

 

So back to your 3 options.

 

1. It is only worth going down testing if you are willing to spend money.  Even if it was head work only, which I doubt it is, guessing Oz pricing maybe $2k and up.  Much more if rings and bore need work...  You also need to consider if you have a garage who is technically competent and experienced as they are a very complicated engine to work on.

 

I also would not work on the basis of compression tests being totally definitive.  Many oil consumers have reported decnent compression until the oil consumption became totally horrific as the sealing rings still provide compression but huge amounts of oil passess.  I would also check turbo seals to rule that out as a contributor if I was doing diagnostics.

 

2. She will die eventually and almost 1l of oil in under 1000km is a lot of oil. The engine can not cope with that if it is being burned.

 

3. The easiest option, but someone else will end up with your problem!

 

edit.  Mine uses 0.5 to 1L in service intervals up to 8k miles.  I don't always top up over that duration, the oil light does not come on but if I don't it will be towards the bottom of dipstick.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amazing reply. Thank you.

 

i have read some similar stories on other forums. 
 

She has been a rock for nearly 4 years Doing around 85k km. I’ve recommended her to all, we recently bought a Kodiaq for the growing family as we liked Skodas. My dad drives one. 
 

it might be time to chop in and with another baby on way (plus a new dog) It could be something bigger needed. Something average and Japanese probably awaits...☹️

[mark4]

My vote is on replacing the oil rings on the pistons. I had excessive oil consumption on my 1.8TSI. The infamous CDAA / 888 Gen2.  I got it sorted out by Skoda. They replaced new pistons, new pistonrings, connecting rods, timing chain. 100% of the parts and 70% of labour was covered by Skoda. You should not buy a car with the Gen2 engine (years 2009 - 2012), unless the piston rings has been exchanged for another design. There is a lot of information on the topic available. The limit for the maintenance recall was 2000km/ 1 l of oil.

 

[OctaviaVRS1980]

On 31/08/2020 at 05:59, mark4 said:

My vote is on replacing the oil rings on the pistons. I had excessive oil consumption on my 1.8TSI. The infamous CDAA / 888 Gen2.  I got it sorted out by Skoda. They replaced new pistons, new pistonrings, connecting rods, timing chain. 100% of the parts and 70% of labour was covered by Skoda. You should not buy a car with the Gen2 engine (years 2009 - 2012), unless the piston rings has been exchanged for another design. There is a lot of information on the topic available. The limit for the maintenance recall was 2000km/ 1 l of oil.

 

thanks Mark4. I would do the same In Warranty. Out of warranty I am basically knackered as the repair you describe over here is probably $AUD3-4K which ain’t worth it on a 6-8k car. It’s most likely going to be chopped in.

[SuperbRaj09]

On 31/08/2020 at 01:29, mark4 said:

My vote is on replacing the oil rings on the pistons. I had excessive oil consumption on my 1.8TSI. The infamous CDAA / 888 Gen2.  I got it sorted out by Skoda. They replaced new pistons, new pistonrings, connecting rods, timing chain. 100% of the parts and 70% of labour was covered by Skoda. You should not buy a car with the Gen2 engine (years 2009 - 2012), unless the piston rings has been exchanged for another design. There is a lot of information on the topic available. The limit for the maintenance recall was 2000km/ 1 l of oil.

 

Heyy mate i own a Skoda Superb 1.8tsi 2012 model which had a engine replacement at 54k kms due to a warped piston head causing missfires and vibrations ,on 2017 with a new Gen2 TSi engine from Skoda. Do u have any idea when did VAG update the Gen2 EA888 engine with the updated/revised tensioners, piston rings and conrods?? I am pretty sure that the updated these faulty parts but when i don't know. Am i safe with the new engine which is Gen2 1.8TSI but made in 2017.

Edited 18 September, 2020 by SuperbRaj09

[mark4]

The design was changed from 2013 onwards. The correction procedure for the Gen2 engine for the oil consumption is actually to switch to the Gen1 pistons & piston rings. If the parts for the new engine was obtained from official dealer and the parts were sourced after 2013 you should be safe. However, if it is an engine produced 2012 and before (or a used engine, that has not ben overhauled) you may have the issue. If it does not consume excessive oil you should be good to go with respect to the oil consumption. Timing chain issues has different symptoms, like misfire, in worst case damage to valves if they get out of timing with respect to the crankshaft/pistons.

Edited 18 September, 2020 by mark4

[SuperbRaj09]

1 hour ago, mark4 said:

The design was changed from 2013 onwards. The correction procedure for the Gen2 engine for the oil consumption is actually to switch to the Gen1 pistons & piston rings. If the parts for the new engine was obtained from official dealer and the parts were sourced after 2013 you should be safe. However, if it is an engine produced 2012 and before (or a used engine, that has not ben overhauled) you may have the issue. If it does not consume excessive oil you should be good to go with respect to the oil consumption. Timing chain issues has different symptoms, like misfire, in worst case damage to valves if they get out of timing with respect to the crankshaft/pistons.

Thanks for the information mate.

And yes the engine was replaced at Skoda authorised Workshop by a official Skoda dealer.

Jst check the image there is the new Engine code and date of manufacture.

I think its imported from Germany as the engine code word is written in German.

Edited 18 September, 2020 by SuperbRaj09

[mark4]

That is not the engine code. That is merely a serial number. The Gen2 code for 1.8TSI is CDAA. You should try to identify the engine code it is usuall 3-4 characters long. However, I would be amazed if they were able to fit a later model 1.8TSI engine to the older Suberb. The Gen3 engine has a higher power output 180hp vs the 160hp for the Gen2. That being said it might be difficult to determine the engine internals, unless there is a receipt or statement from Skoda Workshop that built the engine.

 

[brad1.8T]

Try Alba European in Moorooka.  He's a really good diagnostician.

 

My guess is either the PCV or separation of the rocker cover labrynth.  Possibly oil control rings gummed up