Slippery handling

[Elsie]

For want of a better title. Any ideas please, chaps and chapesses.

 

The old beloved standard 1.9tdi estate is not inspiring me with as much confidence as it could (to say the least) on our corner-filled rural A roads. It's capable of a lot more, I know, and it used to handle much better, but there's no way that I'm going to drive it anywhere near its (or my) limits now: getting scary. Feels like the back end is going to break away under me on every corner, and also that as you steer into a corner the steering suddenly goes a bit light and then tries to turn in too sharply. It's been like this for a while, nothing sudden, maybe getting worse with age, and done it on several different tyres, summers and winters, and in the dry and semi wet. I'm not driving it like a maniac boy racer either, just making good progress at the same speed as other cars.

Overall suspension ride feels good, no noises, maybe a tad soft but no discernible roll or anything (not that I'm an expert). Tyres are a couple of years old max, loads of tread, reasonably high priced Goodyears, run at standard pressures. Steering otherwise feels good (until it suddenly doesn't). Has had what needs replacing doing at each annual MOT. 135k miles on clock.

 

Second (obvious) question - what can I do to improve it? Not utterly keen on anything that causes major insurance cost hikes, and the car's not exactly worth a lot (though with a long known history, worth it to me to keep)  but wondering about susension improvements (don't want to lower anything which could cause problems on rough roads or in snow), different wheel/tyre combinations (again an issue as I need to run winter tyres so need 2 sets of wheels unless I can get a really good all-season set), other...???

 

Thanks.

[TMB]

New springs and dampers would definitely help, they will be very tired at that mileage if they are original. Any tired bushes would also need sorting. Wheel alignment needs to be correct too.

Edited 30 September, 2020 by TMB

[Breezy_Pete]

Any history of the console bushes having been changed?

[StevesTruck]

Assuming you've got decent tyres with the pressure set right, get your wheel alignment checked. 

[Elsie]

Thanks. Daft girly question (though I've seen them referred to before) but what and where are console bushes? 

I asked my normal garage about suspension replacements (it's had the odd mot failure coil, but not dampeners) and he made some reference to bearings above the dampeners, but not console things.

It's had various other bushes done at mot times too (but again not the C word ever mentioned).

It's due mot in November, so good time to get stuff done I guess. (Will they check the wheel alignment?)

[Breezy_Pete]

Console bushes are the ones that the back end of each wishbone goes into (Front wiishbone, rear bush would be another description, but in this case the bush isn't fitted in the wishbone like they usually are on most designs). The original rubber design was poor, and if by some chance yours still has its originals fitted, they may well be allowing a lot more movement than they should, which will affect the dynamic wheel alignment a fair bit, and so the handling..

 

MOT doesn't check wheel alignment, but it does check suspension bushes for excessive movement, so should be picked up.

[Elsie]

Thanks Wino. The "front wishbone bushes" were replaced in 2015, and again last November along with "struts" (didn't notice any great handling changes or improvements then). Front anti roll bushes also been done twice, including last year.

Are there console bushes on the rear too?

[sepulchrave]

New dampers all round should sort it out, I think you've had enough bushes replaced already!

[Elsie]

So - and again sorry for daft girly question - would dampeners cause that feeling of loss of rear grip (maybe front as well)? I have a minor clue about motorcycle suspension and handling, but cars are a mystery to me 

[sepulchrave]

30 minutes ago, Elsie said:

So - and again sorry for daft girly question - would dampeners cause that feeling of loss of rear grip (maybe front as well)? I have a minor clue about motorcycle suspension and handling, but cars are a mystery to me 

 

Yes of course, which is why I suggested replacing them.

[Breezy_Pete]

Struts=front dampers so they've been done too by the sound of it. 

 

[Elsie]

Right. Thanks guys. So maybe the front's been done (1 coil spring replaced last year after mot, but not the other for some odd reason...), but nothing at the back according to service receipts. We'll see what the garage say at mot: hope there's nothing else money eating this year.

 

[sepulchrave]

If the front struts were replaced it'll be incredibly obvious because they'll look shiny and new instead of ancient and rusty, my guess is they didn't get done, just the coil spring. In any event if it's all been replaced why is it handling so badly? 

Edited 30 September, 2020 by sepulchrave

[Elsie]

5 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 In any event if it's all been replaced why is it handling so badly? 

 

Erm, well, yes... Presumably because the dampeners weren't, nor rear coils and 1 front coil? I dunno, really: hence my original question.

[xman]

If the rear end feels out of control on corners, particularly when the camber of the road is adverse, or doing a rapid left-right-left or right-left-right manoeuvre, or when braking then most probably one or both of the rear shock absorbers is faulty. They should cost about £35 - £45 each plus maybe an hours labour to change at a competent garage. Make sure they also change the bump stops and telescopic dust covers which will add another £10 or so a side.

 

Highly recommended to change both sides at once, though its not illegal to change just one side.

 

The usual failure on the fabia at the rear are the top bump stops (made from foam rubber) crumble away over the years and no longer hold the telescopic dust covers which then fall down exposing the shock absorber sliding rods. These are lightly oiled and readily collect abrasive road dirt on them, which gets pushed down into the top seal of the shock absorber,  the shock absorbers then start to leak oil and lose effectiveness.

 

Americans call shock absorbers, shocks or dampers, struts are found on the front the car not the rear.

 

http://www.monroe.com/en-US/shocks-101/shocks-vs-struts/

Edited 30 September, 2020 by xman

[Elsie]

Thanks xman.

[TMB]

2 hours ago, xman said:

Americans call shock absorbers, shocks or dampers, struts are found on the front the car not the rear.

 

http://www.monroe.com/en-US/shocks-101/shocks-vs-struts/

 

I call them dampers and I'm English. When I worked at a Ford dealer I was told off for calling them shock absorbers. They damp spring movement. The springs absorb the shocks. However, I'm fully aware that even manufacturers call them shock absorbers. Beats the shit out of me.

Edited 30 September, 2020 by TMB

[Vfr400boy]

what bikes you in to Elsie? 

[Elsie]

13 minutes ago, Vfr400boy said:

what bikes you in to Elsie? 

OldSkool, mainly Suzy's - steel frames with 600-1200cc in-line 4 1980s air or oil cooled engines. One offs, street fighter types, highly cosmetically and engine modded to say the least 

[sepulchrave]

11 minutes ago, Elsie said:

OldSkool, mainly Suzy's - steel frames with 600-1200cc in-line 4 1980s air or oil cooled engines. One offs, street fighter types, highly cosmetically and engine modded to say the least 

 

Bandits then...

[Vfr400boy]

I have a old 77 gs750 n did have a gs550 that I was going to chop 

[Elsie]

5 hours ago, Vfr400boy said:

I have a old 77 gs750 n did have a gs550 that I was going to chop 

 Go for it! Not enough chops around any more.

[Elsie]

5 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Bandits then...

 

Er, nope. Tis fighting talk, that   Couple of B12 and B6 engines tho'; not in Bandits...

[vindaloo]

Something minor moddy that might tighten things up.... Fit a new VRS front ARB and get a Whiteline rear ARB on the car. Obvs get a pair of good rear shocks in there to start with.

 

Do you tend to carry stuff in the boot?