Octavia 245 vs Superb 280 Engine Comparison

[MTwedVRS]

Hi all, 

Maybe this has been covered before but I can't find any topics.... what are the differences in the Engines between the Octavia vrs 245 and superb 272/280?

 

I appreciate they are the same block, but what else is different?

 

thanks

Matt

[Carlston]

On 13/12/2020 at 18:07, MTwedVRS said:

Maybe this has been covered before but I can't find any topics.... what are the differences in the Engines between the Octavia vrs 245 and superb 272/280?

 

I appreciate they are the same block, but what else is different?

 

245PS/370Nm remaps to 302PS/450Nm@1750rpm

https://www.dtintecno.de/cars/2-0-tsi-rs-180-kw-245-ps:14432

 

280PS/350Nm remaps to 332PS/430Nm@1900rpm

https://www.dtintecno.de/cars/2-0-tsi-206-kw-280-ps:14441

 

It looks like the remapped 245PS engine has the best torque. Not only 20Nm more, but produced from 150rpm lower down the rev range. However, you would need to see the torque curve of both remapped engines to get the full picture.

 

So according to dtintecno, the remapped 245PS engine has a whopping 100Nm more torque than the standard 280Nm engine.

 

Edited 15 December, 2020 by Carlston

[Redboy]

I think the OP was asking about internals and variation in turbo, vice remap Top Trumps. My 220 VRS stage 1 torque was 480NM. The remap pub bragging rights will depend upon each mapper. In reality it’s how effective that translates to actual road use for most of us.

Edited 15 December, 2020 by Redboy
Spellchecker again!

[MTwedVRS]

11 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

245PS/370Nm remaps to 302PS/450Nm@1750rpm

https://www.dtintecno.de/cars/2-0-tsi-rs-180-kw-245-ps:14432

 

280PS/350Nm remaps to 332PS/430Nm@1900rpm

https://www.dtintecno.de/cars/2-0-tsi-206-kw-280-ps:14441

 

It looks like the remapped 245PS engine has the best torque. Not only 20Nm more, but produced from 150rpm lower down the rev range. However, you would need to see the torque curve of both remapped engines to get the full picture.

 

So according to dtintecno, the remapped 245PS engine has a whopping 100Nm more torque than the standard 280Nm engine.

 

Very interesting figures... i plan on remapping my 245 early next year when the weather gets a bit better, so for 'fun factor' I'm sure the 245 will slightly surpass the superb, just by the fact its lighter and has a more sport focussed suspension setup. 

 

My original question was more around the components as I wondered how strong the 245 was and how far you go with mods until it breaks! But your answer is very useful.

6 hours ago, Redboy said:

I think the OP was asking about internals and variation in turbo, vice remap Top Trumps. My 220 VRS stage 1 torque was 480NM. The remap pub bragging rights will depend upon each mapper. In reality it’s how effective that translates to actual road use for most of us.

Yes i was referring to components I should have been more specific  but after all I am asking to understand the tunability of the engine so understanding the remap is also very useful!

[Redboy]

There are lots of remap threads on here. Common figures for Stage 1 for TSI 220-245 are about 300-310 BHP, with the 280/272 around 350 Bhp. The only difficulty for the Octavia will be putting the power down efficiently at lights and roundabouts. Once you're rolling it is a lot of fun and quick. 

[Carlston]

3 hours ago, MTwedVRS said:

Very interesting figures... i plan on remapping my 245 early next year when the weather gets a bit better, so for 'fun factor' I'm sure the 245 will slightly surpass the superb, just by the fact its lighter and has a more sport focussed suspension setup. 

 

My original question was more around the components as I wondered how strong the 245 was and how far you go with mods until it breaks! But your answer is very useful.

Yes i was referring to components I should have been more specific  but after all I am asking to understand the tuneability of the engine so understanding the remap is also very useful!

 

Looking at what both engines will remap to gives an idea of whether the hardware differences are big or small. With the difference in the remapped power outputs of the 245PS and 280PS engines being small, it would suggest that the hardware differences are also small.

 

Another example is the 90PS and 110PS 1.2TSI engines. These engines both remap to about the same power output which would suggest that they have the same hardware. Both engines only remap to around 100PS to 105PS per litre of engine capacity, which would suggest the hardware on these engines is quite modest. However, modest hardware can sometimes give good low down power and driveability.

 

Edited 15 December, 2020 by Carlston

[Redboy]

On 13/12/2020 at 18:07, MTwedVRS said:

Hi all, 

Maybe this has been covered before but I can't find any topics.... what are the differences in the Engines between the Octavia vrs 245 and superb 272/280?

 

I appreciate they are the same block, but what else is different?

 

thanks

Matt

This might help, it appears to be a defined Golf R engine ...unless the 245 is also DNU engine?

 

[shyVRS245]

The 245 has a smaller IS20 turbo which spools up faster and earlier than the bigger IS38 9shared with the Golf R) of the 272/280. My standard 245 had 400nm at 2,600rpm whereas my standard 272 had 269nm at 4,500rpm and the 272 needed revving to almost 6,000rpm to get the best from it whereas the 245 gave its best performance upto 5,000rpm. The stage 1 245 gave 302bhp and 467nm and my stage 1 272 gave 360bhp and 514nm. When I took the 245 to stage 2 it produced 336bhp and 517nm but was a handful particularly on a wet road. I remember it spinning the front tyres at a barely believeable 77mpg in 3rd gear which is dangerous. The safer, better car is the 272/280 which is a more practical Golf R and a Golf R is better than a Golf GTi. They share the same brakes 340mm vented front discs and 310mm vented rear discs but the 245 was almost 300kg lighter so stopped better (1370kg versus 1,660kg). 4WD traction was very impressive on the 272 whereas the FWD 245 struggled to put its power down. Steering probably nicer and more direct on the 245 and both cornered well with the edge going to the lighter 245. Did 29,000 miles with a manual clutch on the 245 and just over 9,000 miles in the 7 speed DSG 272. Both averaged 40mpg which was impressive the 245 had a maximum range of 530 miles from the 50 litre tank and the 272 a maximum range of 720 miles from the 66 litre tank.

[UndertheRadar]

Some internals are strengthened in the 272/280 unit. Pistons, exhaust valves and seats. Different cylinder head and cams. Fuel delivery system is uprated, including injectors. I’m sure there’s other bits but  that’s probably some of the main ones. 
In the Golfs, the is38 unit doesn’t seem to suffer from the same end float I’ve seen in the is20 unit, and the same goes for timing chain issues. 

Edited 17 December, 2020 by UndertheRadar
Clarification

[shyVRS245]

Think the intercooler is larger on the 272/280 also as was pointed out on the new £37,000 Golf GTi Clubsport which shares much with the old 296bhp Golf R.

[EnterName]

On 13/12/2020 at 18:07, MTwedVRS said:

Hi all, 

Maybe this has been covered before but I can't find any topics.... what are the differences in the Engines between the Octavia vrs 245 and superb 272/280?

 

I appreciate they are the same block, but what else is different?

 

thanks

Matt

Not seen anyone mention this in this thread, but afaik, the 280 doesn't have FSI and I thought the 245 did, but I'm not sure.

Perhaps someone who's familiar with the 245 can confirm?

[candasm]

I have a stock 2016 Superb and I never see 40mpg average on my car. Also when I read reports from Stage 3 Octavia VRS owners even lower consumption numbers, I start thing maybe my car is having issues which it doesn't have any errors.
 

where should I look how should I diagnose it? btw: Skoda service mostly says it is in good condition :/ 
 

On 16/12/2020 at 23:14, shyVRS245 said:

The 245 has a smaller IS20 turbo which spools up faster and earlier than the bigger IS38 9shared with the Golf R) of the 272/280. My standard 245 had 400nm at 2,600rpm whereas my standard 272 had 269nm at 4,500rpm and the 272 needed revving to almost 6,000rpm to get the best from it whereas the 245 gave its best performance upto 5,000rpm. The stage 1 245 gave 302bhp and 467nm and my stage 1 272 gave 360bhp and 514nm. When I took the 245 to stage 2 it produced 336bhp and 517nm but was a handful particularly on a wet road. I remember it spinning the front tyres at a barely believeable 77mpg in 3rd gear which is dangerous. The safer, better car is the 272/280 which is a more practical Golf R and a Golf R is better than a Golf GTi. They share the same brakes 340mm vented front discs and 310mm vented rear discs but the 245 was almost 300kg lighter so stopped better (1370kg versus 1,660kg). 4WD traction was very impressive on the 272 whereas the FWD 245 struggled to put its power down. Steering probably nicer and more direct on the 245 and both cornered well with the edge going to the lighter 245. Did 29,000 miles with a manual clutch on the 245 and just over 9,000 miles in the 7 speed DSG 272. Both averaged 40mpg which was impressive the 245 had a maximum range of 530 miles from the 50 litre tank and the 272 a maximum range of 720 miles from the 66 litre tank.

 

[MartiniB]

9 hours ago, candasm said:

I never see 40mpg average on my car

me too have seen lot better numbers there in BS forum,

but not in real life - MY23 280ps at it's first 6k Kms

 

l/100km	MPG.uk
12,7	22,3
17,8	15,9
15,9	17,8
9,9	28,6
9,4	30,0
16,2	17,4
8,7	32,6
12,3	22,9
9,6	29,3
15,9	17,8
8,5	33,4
8,1	34,7
9,3	30,3
8,7	32,6

 

[candasm]

On 03/07/2023 at 09:19, MartiniB said:

me too have seen lot better numbers there in BS forum,

but not in real life - MY23 280ps at it's first 6k Kms

 

l/100km	MPG.uk
12,7	22,3
17,8	15,9
15,9	17,8
9,9	28,6
9,4	30,0
16,2	17,4
8,7	32,6
12,3	22,9
9,6	29,3
15,9	17,8
8,5	33,4
8,1	34,7
9,3	30,3
8,7	32,6

 

If it is not out of the city, I don't see sub 10lt/100km consumption numbers. I think I might have another issues but in anyway. How come stage 3 octavia with same engine can consume 6lt/100km and ours can't. 

[Dooge]

Interesting thread. I didn't think there would be much in it between the lumps except for turbo/fueling.

 

For the MPG my stock 220 DSG gets 33-35 commuting over a 5 mile drive in the summer. I can quite easily knock 10mpg off that in the winter, but alot of that is short journeys. Summer motorway journeys, best I had was 39 which was to Goodwood from Plymouth and back with some foot down fun and 3 people in total in the car. Winter I'd see 35ish. 

 

Lots of variables with people's own individual driving styles, journeys, weather conditions, tyre pressures, etc. I've learnt not to get too caught up with what others are getting and focus on if the car feels right. Generally if you know your car, you'll know if it feels like it's working properly. If MPG is drastically out then you can judge it's probably got something wrong.