Has anyone tried or installed the Koni Special Active?

[MarkyG82]

@stever750experience matches mine.

I'm trying to work out if a stiffer spring will aid the higher damping rates on these shocks. 

[stever750]

26 minutes ago, 4StringBass said:

I'm quite concerned by that.  Other reviews have said good balance between taught and comfort.  It's why I went for a Superb over an Octavia VRS.  Might have to send the shocks back and stick with stock 😞

It's no worse really than the octavia vrs in that respect. I would say that it's slightly taughter than the Octy, put in perspective, it's not as stiff feeling as say a cupra Leon, or a Ford focus ST. Nowhere near like that, it's more like a BMW 5 series. Bear in mind the stock suspension is hopeless unless you drive slowly. 

I've just been out for a 30 mile mixed route, and it's so much better over bumpy ridged roads. Whereas before it would pitch and dive and crash about, it now glides over the worst of the undulations so is actually a much smoother ride. Driving over speed bumps highlights how different it is. I can take them at twice the speed I used to be able to without risking hitting my sump! 

For me, its so much better and safer to drive its a no brainer upgrade. If you're not bothered about pressing on, or mostly drive around suburban routes then you might prefer stock. 

[stever750]

16 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

@stever750experience matches mine.

I'm trying to work out if a stiffer spring will aid the higher damping rates on these shocks. 

I doubt it, and might make it worse. I read some reviews by golf gti owners, and they were worse than stock dampers. Don't forget stiffer springs are less effective on bumpy roads. If you were changing springs then the bilstein might be a better match. 

[Gabrielem]

1 minute ago, stever750 said:

En realidad, no es peor que el octavia vrs en ese sentido. Diría que es un poco más duro que el Octy, puesto en perspectiva, no se siente tan rígido como, por ejemplo, un Cupra Leon o un Ford Focus ST. Nada parecido a eso, es más como un BMW serie 5. Tenga en cuenta que la suspensión original es inútil a menos que conduzca lentamente. 

Acabo de salir por una ruta mixta de 30 millas, y es mucho mejor sobre caminos llenos de baches. Mientras que antes cabeceaba, se zambullía y chocaba, ahora se desliza sobre las peores ondulaciones, por lo que en realidad es un viaje mucho más suave. Conducir sobre badenes resalta lo diferente que es. ¡Puedo llevarlos al doble de la velocidad que solía hacerlo sin correr el riesgo de golpearme el sumidero! 

Para mí, es mucho mejor y más seguro conducir, es una actualización obvia. Si no le preocupa seguir adelante, o conduce principalmente por rutas suburbanas, es posible que prefiera acciones. 

I still intend to put them on, but I should change the springs I have (PPD) for standard springs and I can't find anything safe to buy for a Combi 190 TDI 4x4...

[4StringBass]

3 minutes ago, stever750 said:

It's no worse really than the octavia vrs in that respect. I would say that it's slightly taughter than the Octy, put in perspective, it's not as stiff feeling as say a cupra Leon, or a Ford focus ST. Nowhere near like that, it's more like a BMW 5 series. Bear in mind the stock suspension is hopeless unless you drive slowly. 

I've just been out for a 30 mile mixed route, and it's so much better over bumpy ridged roads. Whereas before it would pitch and dive and crash about, it now glides over the worst of the undulations so is actually a much smoother ride. Driving over speed bumps highlights how different it is. I can take them at twice the speed I used to be able to without risking hitting my sump! 

For me, its so much better and safer to drive its a no brainer upgrade. If you're not bothered about pressing on, or mostly drive around suburban routes then you might prefer stock. 

Ok, that's more reassuring.  I do an 80 mile a day commute and I don't want a rock hard ride.  Happy with taught but don't want it crashing over every ripple.  Thanks for the update

[MarkyG82]

18 minutes ago, stever750 said:

I doubt it, and might make it worse. I read some reviews by golf gti owners, and they were worse than stock dampers. Don't forget stiffer springs are less effective on bumpy roads. If you were changing springs then the bilstein might be a better match. 

Already have the konis fitted so not going to get the bilsteins now. Part of me thinks I should have fitted the B6 instead (had them on my Octavia). You live and learn.

What makes you think they won't match well with stiffer springs? They have higher damping rates than stock and higher damping goes with higher spring rates. Physics innit.

[MarkyG82]

@4StringBass it's better than stock. I am far less tired after a long drive due to not fighting against any body roll or wind. 

[stever750]

17 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

Already have the konis fitted so not going to get the bilsteins now. Part of me thinks I should have fitted the B6 instead (had them on my Octavia). You live and learn.

What makes you think they won't match well with stiffer springs? They have higher damping rates than stock and higher damping goes with higher spring rates. Physics innit.

That's too much of a generalisation.  The Konis are not sport dampers, the stock ones on a Golf are higher rated as an example - I watched an in depth review of them and they were worse than standard. Personally I wouldn't use special actives with stiffer springs, if I were uprating the spring rates I would go B6 or Koni STR or Sport, or better still coilovers and be done with trying to match the two. They make such a big difference with the Superb because the OE dampers are so utterly useless, I'll bet they have a much smaller effect on say an Octavia vrs. Of course, this is just my opinion based on limited research and 30 miles driving!

[MarkyG82]

I have 8-9 months on them. Got an upgraded rear roll bar too and still feel like the roll is too much. Skips out a bit on a couple of specific corners on my commute. Could well be I am asking too much of a heavy car. The lean on a large roundabout was loads on the way home today. Even in the greasy conditions we've had.

Still have the stock shocks that would happily take lowering springs. The proceeds if I sell the konis would pay for much of the springs and labour.

Pretty sure my Passat has stiffer suspension than the superb too. So shocks could be firmer.

[4StringBass]

52 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

@4StringBass it's better than stock. I am far less tired after a long drive due to not fighting against any body roll or wind. 

Thank you!

[stever750]

11 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

I have 8-9 months on them. Got an upgraded rear roll bar too and still feel like the roll is too much. Skips out a bit on a couple of specific corners on my commute. Could well be I am asking too much of a heavy car. The lean on a large roundabout was loads on the way home today. Even in the greasy conditions we've had.

Still have the stock shocks that would happily take lowering springs. The proceeds if I sell the konis would pay for much of the springs and labour.

Pretty sure my Passat has stiffer suspension than the superb too. So shocks could be firmer.

It's well worth doing the research on suspension design wrt spring and damper rates, there are some really useful engineering youtube channels worth checking out to explain the fundamentals. I know from years ago that one of the reasons why the Alfasud handled so well, and gripped the way it did was that it had a fairly long travel suspension, hence leaned a lot. That's not so bad, providing you don't get unwanted toe and camber changes, but for a road car, you want as much travel and soft spring rates that you can get away with for ride comfort, and to retain the highest rebound force on bumpy roads.

 

This guy is worth following:

 

 

 

[MarkyG82]

Oh yeah there is a difference between theoretical suspension design and real life when you have varying conditions. Critical damping for one system might actually be quite uncomfortable in use. My experience with push bike suspension suggests marginal underdamping offers better comfort off road. This doesn't translate well to road car use as the wheels would skip about. 

 

The special active shocks are a strange situation. Ordinarily a higher damping rate would benefit from stiffer springs (as a rule). But these effectively have 2 damping rates (maybe a variety in between too) so the spring rates are harder to match. Then you add in the fact that stiffer springs generally come as a lowering package. This limits the effective range of the active part of the design. Most other shocks (Bilstein as you suggest) don't have the same requirement of travel to activate valving. 

 

You can tell that I half know what I'm talking about. The other half is still learning. I wish I had the time and/or money to just chuck some springs in there and see what they are like. Many others have reported that the SA perform well with lowering springs but I wonder if that is due to the inability to activate the lower damping rate due to travel restrictions. Thus they are using a kind of sports setup with the occasional activation of the clever valving rather than a proper setup with the correct amount of travel to make the most of the system.

 

Experience like you offer is valuable especially when you have found evidence of the shocks not performing well.

[Vidmor]

On 03/03/2022 at 21:44, MarkyG82 said:

Already have the konis fitted so not going to get the bilsteins now. Part of me thinks I should have fitted the B6 instead (had them on my Octavia). You live and learn.

What makes you think they won't match well with stiffer springs? They have higher damping rates than stock and higher damping goes with higher spring rates. Physics innit.

Hi there, 

 

Can I ask what you preferred about the B6 on your Octavia?

 

I came from an Octavia vRS and would quite like to improve the dampers on my Superb (non sport line, non DCC) ideally on OEM springs and maintaining a reasonably comfortable ride. Was thinking of the B6 or Special Active and interested in your thoughts having tried both, albeit on different cars. 

 

Cheers 

[stever750]

Completed a 400 mile round trip last couple of days, first leg was across mid Wales, return trip via M5 and M4. 

What a difference, I reckon in the dry my superb is quicker cross country than my octavia, you can hurl it into a bumpy corner without any issues. It's possibly slightly stiffer feeling than the octavia too, but on the motorway it still feels smooth and relaxed. It's actually fun to drive now, whereas before it definitely wasn't. 

[MarkyG82]

4 hours ago, Vidmor said:

 

 

Can I ask what you preferred about the B6 on your Octavia?

 

 

I think I prefer the consistent support of the B6. The actives feel less reliable in their ability to control the wheel movement. When I fitted the B6s to the Octavia it was an instant improvement. Call it 8.5-9/10. In comparison the actives were about 4/10. Compared to 2/10 for the stock.  They are better than stock but not as confidence inspiring like the B6s.

 

I'm still considering swapping them out.

[stever750]

That's interesting, I've found them to be a massive improvement. Much more and it would be too much for stock springs. 9n my car, it feels like my old cupra Leon with dcc on mid setting. 

Just realised you're talking about octavia. If it was the vrs, the stock springs are a fair bit stiffer than the superb, so the former B6 would probably be better suited than the konis (as that golf gti owner discovered). 

Edited 8 March, 2022 by stever750

[Vidmor]

Thanks! 

[MarkyG82]

1 hour ago, stever750 said:

That's interesting, I've found them to be a massive improvement. Much more and it would be too much for stock springs. 9n my car, it feels like my old cupra Leon with dcc on mid setting. 

Just realised you're talking about octavia. If it was the vrs, the stock springs are a fair bit stiffer than the superb, so the former B6 would probably be better suited than the konis (as that golf gti owner discovered). 

 

Ah no. It was a 2.0 TDI estate with torsion beam rear. Ran it on stock springs for a bit and then on prokit. Both were good in their own right. Lowered it was quite stiff but stuck to the road and bordering on zero body roll. Stock height it reduced the roll, pitch etc and I found it more comfortable than stock. Wheels dropped into dips better and felt more composed.

I get none of that with the actives. Needed a stiffer rear roll bar to improve the turn in and I still get a fair amount of body roll.

I still have the stock shocks. I could get lowering springs to go with them. I'm not convinced that lowering with the actives will be a good idea. Part of the issue is the weight of the car being a plug in. It's something like 250kg heavier than a standard model. Larkspeed have the B6s at a good price. I might do the swap later in the year. Also the garage that fitted the actives did a bad job. One of the bumpstops is upside down and they split a dust cover.

 

My overall experience has been off.

[4StringBass]

Fitted my Koni's yesterday, wow, what a difference!  I've only done a 12 mile test run but the car felt so good.  Just need to sort a wheel alignment now.

[stever750]

8 minutes ago, 4StringBass said:

Fitted my Koni's yesterday, wow, what a difference!  I've only done a 12 mile test run but the car felt so good.  Just need to sort a wheel alignment now.

They make a huge difference don't they. 

[4StringBass]

40 minutes ago, stever750 said:

They make a huge difference don't they. 

Genuinely amazed at how the car felt.  Was deliberately aiming at defects in the road and it just glided over them.  Could only hear the cats eyes, coudn't feel them.

[stever750]

Biggest difference for me was sleeping policemen / speed bumps. I think gliding is a good description, it's far less reactive to the road surface, so much quicker over really bumpy rutted surfaces.

[taurean7]

On 08/03/2022 at 20:26, MarkyG82 said:

 

I think I prefer the consistent support of the B6. The actives feel less reliable in their ability to control the wheel movement. When I fitted the B6s to the Octavia it was an instant improvement. Call it 8.5-9/10. In comparison the actives were about 4/10. Compared to 2/10 for the stock.  They are better than stock but not as confidence inspiring like the B6s.

 

I'm still considering swapping them out.

Isnt the B6 classed as a sport shocker? In which case it isn’t directly relevant to the special active, it’s more relevant to the Koni Sport shocker - isn’t it?

 

not sure if the comment was made by yourself or someone else but is the Special Activ like a dual rate spring where part of it is configured for softness and then when the reach of that is achieved then it hits the stiffer element and becomes less compliant.

 

I have a Sportsline Plus 4x4 and I find it drives sporty, but over broken road it is unsettled.  But the bigger issue is speed bumps. It thuds up them at anything but really slow speed, and depending on the width (if it falls within the frequency of the suspension bounce/recovery) it decks out 😣 this makes for an unnerving experience and quite upsetting for a modern vehicle.  I have never had any car do what this car does, either normal or sports car - don’t know who engineered the shocker parameters but they have got it very wrong

 

[stever750]

Personally, only my opinion of course, anything stiffer than the konis is going to ruin the ride quality and be pointless on UK roads, I can already exceed the limit point on most of my cross Wales commutes. That said, they do fidget and jiggle a bit, especially at low, speeds; if the B6 avoided that then they'd definitely be worth considering. 

[taurean7]

16 minutes ago, stever750 said:

Personally, only my opinion of course, anything stiffer than the konis is going to ruin the ride quality and be pointless on UK roads, I can already exceed the limit point on most of my cross Wales commutes. That said, they do fidget and jiggle a bit, especially at low, speeds; if the B6 avoided that then they'd definitely be worth considering. 

Out of curiosity what model is your Superb? To know what standard suspension you started with, assuming your now running the Koni’s yourself.

 

I’m starting from a Sportsline Plus myself which is weirdly quite firm, but over speed bumps and broken road surface is abnormally soft 🤷‍♂️ I am looking at something to achieve better comfort and more control.  Been on a number of forums and Koni’s seem to be a popular upgrade.