Enyaq Heat Pump Option

[domhnall]

On 21/05/2021 at 10:28, e-Roottoot said:

If Elon Musk has decided to build Tesla,s in the UK we might see differences in what they do for the UK and Continental European market.  Cars that suit UK roads with less concern with speed and more about efficiency and fast CCS charging. 

 

oh aye, he's goign to build a factory just for a small market like the UK rather than using Berlin to supply it :-)

 

[Ootohere]

The UK might be a cheaper place to build using skilled workers who will accept jobs paying less than they used to get working for manufacturers leaving the UK.

Time will tell what a brave new British Isles are like & just how the EU gets on.

Maybe it is just the place to be manufacturing the batteries.

There are markets other than the EU or Asia / Far East.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57185806

 

Boris had Victor Orban visiting him today. 

Hungary is another country with skilled workers where EU & other Global Manufacturers like to build cars.

If the UK & Hungary want to do trade deals that pith off the EU then Hungary can do that.

Edited 28 May, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Odin1123]

On 16/01/2021 at 23:20, Colin170CR said:

If it's a refrigerant heat pump system I'm guessing this would be using the car AC system & running it in reverse to produce heat inside the vehicle or battery compartment i.e. the a/c condenser becomes the evaporator & the evaporator becomes the condenser. In heating Hot gas from the compressor goes to the indoor coil for heating instead of the outdoor coil in normal cooling mode. This is normally controlled by a 4 way solenoid valve. Heat pumps are up to 350% more efficient than direct electric heating i.e. 1kw electric input = 3.5kW heat output.

Millions of Heat Pumps (air to air type) are sold for use in commercial & residential A/C systems around the world where they can cool in summer & heat in winter.  I have one in my conservatory.

99% of all modern air to air A/C systems are heat pumps. Heating only air to water heat pumps (no cooling) are now being installed in houses & commercial buildings to replace / avoid the need for gas / oil fired boilers. You can also buy heat pump tumble driers these days. It's all about reducing carbon emissions. 

 

Below is an air to air heat pump system in heating mode.

Same system now in cooling mode.

 

So the only difference between the heat pump and the compressor used for cooling the car are three valves and some extra pipework for which you will pay over a £1000.

[Ootohere]

It will be a question of the future for those buying used.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 30 May, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Odin1123]

3 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

It will be a question of the future for those buying used.

Our winters appear to be getting warmer, so it may not be an issue.

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Well it wasn't that warm just north of Fife for much of last winter, and might not be for the next 2 or 3 years so that might be as long as some have their lease cars.

My heat pump does sound like a ICE car with the fans running while cooling down or regening while sitting with the car switched on.

[cheezemonkhai]

Heat pumps just move heat around from A to B, so there is no reason they can't scavange heat from various locations and dump it elsewhere.

In winter dump it into the in cabin "radiator" to warm it and in summer scavange it from everywhere including the air coming into the cabin and dump it outside.

 

Why it isn't a standard piece of equipment on VW group cars in some market... well you'll have to ask the local importers 

 

Edited 8 June, 2021 by cheezemonkhai

[garym999]

So here I am in the dealership having my Kodiaq serviced and having a paw around an Enyaq they have in the showroom. I asked about the heat pump option and two people have said it is as described in the options list, that is it only heats the batteries? I can't see that it must do the cabin too right?

 

If your batteries are that cold the cabin will be too, so the demand for heating will also be high why not use the efficency of a heat pump to maintain the range in both regards?

[Odin1123]

Something probably got lost in translation. If there is a heat pump it does not make any sense no to use it for the cabin as well. Interestingly the earlier versions of the spec did not say what the heat pump was used for. Just that an extortionate sum would be required to fit it.

[Malakim]

From this illustration in the Swedish brochure it certainly looks like it’s used for the cabin too (can’t see why it wouldn’t). If the illustration is accurate, that is… 😁

 

I didn’t see a similar illustration in the UK brochure. Maybe they omitted it as it’s not a standard feature on UK cars, I believe?

 

Edit: Sorry, I didn’t re-read the first page, so didn’t see that the same illustration was shown there. Feel free to ignore….

 

 

Edited 17 June, 2021 by Malakim

[garym999]

When the dealer checked on the website to see if the description of the option had been updated to give more detail it had not but it did show that picture and I commented that it looked like it did the cabin too. He said it didn't.

 

I then discussed this with the leasing company who also said the same. I know its a new motor but you think there would be better information out there.

[Malakim]

Let me try to translate the Swedish text, it’s a bit more detailed than the UK copy. 
 

“Heat pump 

Compared to a petrol powered car, the drivetrain in a BEV doesn’t generate enough excess heat to warm the cabin. The solution:

A highly efficient heat pump which compresses a refrigerant under high pressure. The generated heat is used to heat streaming cold air. This uses less energy from the battery for the high voltage heater, which results in longer range compared to BEVs without a heat pump.”

 

Not sure if it helps, and I’m sure there are things in my translation that is wrong. 😄 

Edited 17 June, 2021 by Malakim

[garym999]

No that’s perfect and exactly what I thought it did.

[Odin1123]

Think of it as standing at the back of your refrigerator at home, where the heat coming from the pipe gride at the back is being sucked from inside the fridge. A heat pump is simply cabale of reversing the process to to warm the inside of the fridge and make the room cold. A heat pump uses an electrically driven compressor which will use less electricity than direct electric heating.

[garym999]

I guess the point is the description on the website doesn’t fully describe what it does and then that is backed up by the lack of knowledge at the dealerships. For the high milers out there this is an easy £1000 option to sell based on additional efficiency.

 

With BEVs being new and exciting you would think they would be all over it

 

Now that they are beginning to appear on the roads it will be very interesting to see how the cars fair and what the issues are. I already fear the software side of things

[aerofurb]

I had a look through the Enyaq brochure and I see the Skoda UK myth about the function of the heat pump has made it to there as well as still existing on the configurator:

 

 

 

 

Personally, I find it really quite worrying that Skoda UK can't suss out what the heat pump's function is. I never got a response when I mentioned it to them first time round (or from the promised online sales rep) - perhaps I'll give it another go. It is only for my own amusement as the Enyaq is outside my budget and my Superb iV Sportline Plus is simply brilliant. 

[aerofurb]

I've just noticed (when emailing Skoda UK about the heat pump function for the second time) that my original link to the VW tech ID.3 heat pump info doesn't work anymore, so here's a new link:

 

Heat Pump | Electric Car Software & Tech | Volkswagen UK

 

I would suggest anyone having a discussion with Skoda UK sales staff over the heat pump function in the Enyaq should perhaps get them to read it. Of course, they'd need to recognise the fact that the ID.3/ID.4 are somewhat similar under the skin which might also be a surprise to some of them....

[aerofurb]

Well, in my quest for heat pump equality, I emailed Skoda UK and have had zero response.

 

However, I see the description of what the heat pump does on the Skoda UK build configurator has been updated....

 

 

Obviously, they didn't use the same translator as me - or indeed have anyone who has mastered the English language, do the proof reading.

 

Is it really that difficult?!

 

PS I don't have the energy (excuse the pun) to ask them about the function of the 'highly valve battery'....

Edited 6 July, 2021 by aerofurb

[Odin1123]

The car manual is better but still contains English language errors. Even UK publishers don't have prrof readers these days judging by the errors I see.

[Xtopher]

Had an interesting discussion with the salesman at VW about the heat pump. Apparently a significant amount of customers are kicking up a stink about it not working as expected and getting money back. We've placed an order for a Enyaq 80 Sportline with heat pump and its been noted on file that this is an outstanding question with VW/Skoda as to the effectiveness and if VW customers end up getting refunds for them then we will expect the same.

[Kenny R]

8 minutes ago, Xtopher said:

Had an interesting discussion with the salesman at VW about the heat pump. Apparently a significant amount of customers are kicking up a stink about it not working as expected and getting money back. We've placed an order for a Enyaq 80 Sportline with heat pump and its been noted on file that this is an outstanding question with VW/Skoda as to the effectiveness and if VW customers end up getting refunds for them then we will expect the same.

Can just see it now, “ Did you ever own a VW/ Skoda EV? , did the heat pump not work as expected? Claim now, no win no fee. Contact us now “  

[Xtopher]

I was about to say this should clear it up but I think it just adds more questions, and I don't have time to digest everything she's saying but there is mention of scavenging, as well as pure heat pump. Who knows....

 

 

[Ootohere]

Maybe it would help if there was something from what the VW salesperson said about which world region the unhappy customers are in and how they know the Heat Pump is not functioning properly.  The thing is with sales people is when we know they might be telling the truth or it is Chinese Whispers or they are about to get their books at the end of the month. 

[Luckypants]

1 minute ago, e-Roottoot said:

Maybe it would help if there was something from what the VW salesperson said about which world region the unhappy customers are in and how they know the Heat Pump is not functioning properly. 

Its in Germany and the proof is that this winter heat pump owners were not getting the claimed improvement in range over stock. Its in the mainstream motoring press. What has not been made public at the moment is how much compo has been paid.

[Ootohere]

Cheers, hopefully they were cozy though even though not having an improved range.  I take it there were 2 identical vehicles being driven in convoy and one with heat pump and one without. Same weight in car and heat in cabin.