Suspension dilemma - H&R vs Eibach vs OEM

[Combi_Bob]

So I have my car 3 weeks today. When I bought it the seller offered to refit the standard springs or leave the H&R that he'd fitted in his ownership. I figured I'd take it as it was and change down the line if needed (standard springs came with the car in the boot). 

 

With 1000 miles under my belt now I'm exploring my options. First of all I love how the car sits on the H&R springs, looks fairly level front and rear though I've not measured it, but given the roads I travel it's a little firmer than I'd like and can bang and crash a bit. I think the front has hit the bump stops twice on two particularly nasty holes. 

 

I happened to mention this to a friend and he suggested that instead of going back to standard I should consider the Eibach Sportline springs. He has them in his mk7 Golf GTI and thinks they're a nice compromise, not lowering as much but not nearly as firm either. He's done a few track days with them and had no complaints. 

 

So I find myself in a dilemma - do I go back to standard? I've never driven a standard one so I don't know if they're naturally this firm? Do I try the Eibach route? Do I stick with the H&R and change the front shocks to get a more compliant ride (the rear has relatively new gas shocks that are on the car 7k miles)?

 

Anyone have any experience of the various options and able to guide me?

[MarkyG82]

Whatever you do make sure you are looking at the right eibach springs.  Sportline are the bigger drop at 45-50mm I think.  Prokit are the more everyday springs with a 30-35mm drop.  These drops are based on standard octavia height.  For vrs knock another 15mm off those.  

H&R are 40mm I think.

[Ads230]

I've got the Eibach Pro Kit on my 230 hatch, which I took over the Sportline due to needing a ~30mm drop but retain some pliancy.

 

The Sportline set, I'm led to believe, pretty much matches the H&R springs in terms of dynamic feel & slightly less 'felt' stiffness; whereas the Pro Kit adds more control and composure to the OEM ride, without impacting comfort (or NVH) too much - since the ride height isn't as reduced as the sportline ( ~10mm less drop), and being between 30-35mm overall.

 

I would say that the OEM ride is pretty lax with a great deal of roll and pitch (mainly due to fairly weedy rear anti-roll bars), and one might be dissuaded from going back to 'standard' springs. Any decent aftermarket springs is an immediate improvement to ride and handling anyway.

 

It's difficult to gauge the difference between both sets, especially if you were to use your friend's Golf GTI as an example - since even though it's the same MQB platform, it's still a very different car in terms of handling dynamics to the Octy. 

 

I'd highly recommend Eibach as quality suspension upgrade and it'll depend what you want out of the car which will help decide between Pro Kit or Sportline. I've driven around Cork a few times over 2017 and 2018 (somewhat spiritedly in a hire car...), so I have a feeling of what some of the roads are like. The roads around me are pretty crap (as well as having a lot of mountainous speed humps) so I felt a compromise on drop height vs. pliancy was required - hence the Pro Kit.

 

In the meantime and semi-related, but have you taken the car to get a decent wheel alignment to check there's no issues with setup?

 

 

Edited 14 January, 2021 by Ads230
Ha - MarkyG82 beat me to the post

[Ecomatt]

My car is standard as the day it left the factory. People say it pitches and rolls but I can quite happily make progress on twisty B roads without any issues...and its a nose heavy diesel VRS.

I am advanced driver and do balance the car through corners by usinggentle  acceleration. Never had any issues with the cars handling as standard.

I had thought of lowering the car on Eibachs like my old mk2 but with the amount of speed humps around I am happy for the extra ground clearance. Plus car park ramps etc are no issue. I dont think as standard the car sits too high either. 

Cars need suspension travel to assist with comfort but also to generate the grip. Look how much BTCC cars move around when warming up. I see too many cars with suspension too firm and it makes them jittery to drive and handle worse. Plus making them slower on the road when you have high speed humps.

The good thing is that you have plenty of time to decide what you want to do👍

 

[Combi_Bob]

6 hours ago, Ads230 said:

I'd highly recommend Eibach as quality suspension upgrade and it'll depend what you want out of the car which will help decide between Pro Kit or Sportline. I've driven around Cork a few times over 2017 and 2018 (somewhat spiritedly in a hire car...), so I have a feeling of what some of the roads are like. The roads around me are pretty crap (as well as having a lot of mountainous speed humps) so I felt a compromise on drop height vs. pliancy was required - hence the Pro Kit.

 

In the meantime and semi-related, but have you taken the car to get a decent wheel alignment to check there's no issues with setup?

I suppose the bolded part is what's most important to this debate really. I bought the car primarily for economy (coming from an older petrol 3-series BMW), reliability, looks, practicality and comfort. I do approximately 400 miles a week just on the work commute alone, mainly national roads with about 25% on crappier regional roads. I don't really throw it about much on the backroads though I still like to make decent progress - there's probably an element of fear of destroying the front splitter if I'm a bit too spirited in there. 95% of the time I'm on my own, the other 5% I'll probably have my wife and dogs on board.

 

I haven't had it for an alignment - if i take my hands off the wheel at 60mph it stays straight, and it hasn't displayed any unexpected characteristics. The same friend with the GTI has the Hunter equipment so I should probably pay him a visit. 

 

With the H&R I just find it overly firm - the likes of raised cats eyes can send a jolt through the cabin. Perhaps the Proline Kit is the route to take. I certainly won't be upset if its slightly higher than present.

 

Thanks for the input folks 😊

[encephalopathy]

leave those springs alone and upgrade front and rear ARBs (along with fresh droplinks)

this will make a massive improvement in handling, far more than altering springs

[Combi_Bob]

5 minutes ago, encephalopathy said:

leave those springs alone and upgrade front and rear ARBs (along with fresh droplinks)

this will make a massive improvement in handling, far more than altering springs

Front AND rear? I've read about people upgrading the rear alright, didn't realise the front was also an issue?

[encephalopathy]

its a matched set (matched as being similarly increased in thickness over stock , not necessarily identical). if you have massively different stiffness of front and rear arbs you have have unpredictable handling

[Combi_Bob]

7 hours ago, encephalopathy said:

its a matched set (matched as being similarly increased in thickness over stock , not necessarily identical). if you have massively different stiffness of front and rear arbs you have have unpredictable handling

Handy to know for the future if I have issues with the handling. For the moment I'm more interested in improving the ride comfort if i can though. 

[Ads230]

16 hours ago, Combi_Bob said:

I suppose the bolded part is what's most important to this debate really.

I'd go for the Pro-Kit, based on your additional info above. Then make sure it's sorted out with a Hunter alignment afterwards 😊👍  Job's a good'un.

 

The Pro-Kit height difference really won't be too noticeable (literally a difference of about 10mm, 15mm max), certainly less than standard. I've had mine fitted for 3/4 years' ownership, and haven't looked back.

 

As @encephalopathysays, upgrading ARBs is good at reducing body roll further down the line - but sounds like you'll want to check out springs first. I went rear ARB only (from APR), since the OEM front ARB is sufficient for me and too stiff a setup can increase understeer.

 

Let us know what you decide and do, would be interested to see if the recommendations make a positive change!

[DC04R]

If you're staying on OEM shocks then yeah maybe go for a spring that doesn't drop as much as H&R - Eibach pro are your only choice really.

 

It's not the springs that are crashy or bad, it's the compatibility of your shocks and springs. OEM setup isn't sure what it's doing in my opinion, it wants to be a soft sensible family car but also they've dropped the height from a normal Octavia and it also wants to be 'sporty'. It's neither in reality!

 

Either swap the springs out for Eibach pro and lose the more aesthetically pleasing ride height, or keep the HR springs and get some decent shocks to pair up with them (Bilstein B8 or something).

 

I've done HR springs and whiteline rear ARB - it does massively improve the car on turn in, in terms of less boaty pitch and roll, but the shocks are still letting the side down, so going to HR coilovers and front and rear H&R ARB's while it's up on the ramp. I'm under no illusion that it won't be as soft, but I can't stand the indecisive personality of the OEM suspension.

 

I think B8's and HR springs would be the best bet, but I couldn't help think that for a few more quid I could get decent branded coilovers (TUV gepruft too!)

[Combi_Bob]

On 15/01/2021 at 09:34, DC04R said:

I think B8's and HR springs would be the best bet, but I couldn't help think that for a few more quid I could get decent branded coilovers (TUV gepruft too!)

I spent last night researching the various permutations. I think coilovers are a definite no in my situation. I get what you're saying about similar costs but really couldn't live with an even former ride. 😧

 

I'm now thinking 55mm Bilstein B8 front & rear with my existing springs. Took me most of the night to find a definitive answer as to what the difference was between 50mm and 55mm 😂 

 

From checking invoices i got with the car i have a feeling its still on its original front shocks. Are these something that could normally be getting tired at 70k miles? Rears have only 7k on them and it's definitely the front I'm finding more bumpy so wondering if this could be part of the issue (and also searching for a justifiable reason to spend near €600 on the shocks 🤓). 

 

Final question for now - if i do get the B8's, would i need new top mounts and drop links too?

[MarkyG82]

I would suggest new top mounts. Drop links not required but can't hurt as they have a few miles on them.

Can I ask what you found about the 50/55mm difference. I thought it was dependent on what hub carriers you have fitted?

[Combi_Bob]

6 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

I would suggest new top mounts. Drop links not required but can't hurt as they have a few miles on them.

Can I ask what you found about the 50/55mm difference. I thought it was dependent on what hub carriers you have fitted?

Perhaps incorrect, but it was to do with axle weights. The heavier diesel and dsg need the 55mm. A manual TSi would use the 50mm.

[MarkyG82]

@Combi_Bob nope. I had 50mm fitted to my 2.0TDI elegance estate. I think it's more subtle than that.

[DC04R]

13 hours ago, Combi_Bob said:

I spent last night researching the various permutations. I think coilovers are a definite no in my situation. I get what you're saying about similar costs but really couldn't live with an even former ride. 😧

 

I'm now thinking 55mm Bilstein B8 front & rear with my existing springs. Took me most of the night to find a definitive answer as to what the difference was between 50mm and 55mm 😂 

 

From checking invoices i got with the car i have a feeling its still on its original front shocks. Are these something that could normally be getting tired at 70k miles? Rears have only 7k on them and it's definitely the front I'm finding more bumpy so wondering if this could be part of the issue (and also searching for a justifiable reason to spend near €600 on the shocks 🤓). 

 

Final question for now - if i do get the B8's, would i need new top mounts and drop links too?

 

At that mileage - definitely yes! Top mounts 100%, drop links if needed. Both are cheap anyway.

Edited 17 January, 2021 by DC04R

[Combi_Bob]

6 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

@Combi_Bob nope. I had 50mm fitted to my 2.0TDI elegance estate. I think it's more subtle than that.

I think if I eventually go down this route I'll just email Bilstein and ask them directly as I couldn't find anything definitive. 

[MarkyG82]

Just now, Combi_Bob said:

I think if I eventually go down this route I'll just email Bilstein and ask them directly as I couldn't find anything definitive. 

 

Best bet is to climb under the car with a vernier and measure it. I got the part no off bilstein and also asked my trusted garage for the part no.s (I could get it cheaper through onterweb). Turned out to be 50mm even though catalogue and garage said otherwise. They were stumped too. He couldn't figure out why it would be that size given it was an estate with 2.0 diesel lump. Once fitted they were great and I doubt many people could tell the difference between sizes when driving.

[Carlston]

2 hours ago, Combi_Bob said:

I think if I eventually go down this route I'll just email Bilstein and ask them directly as I couldn't find anything definitive. 

 

It looks like the following build codes came with the 55mm diameter front shock absorbers.

 

PR-G02

PR-G03

PR-G10

 

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/OCT/year/2016/drive_standart/753/hg_ug/411/subcategory/411000/part_id/2561497/lang/e

 

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/OCT/year/2016/drive_standart/753/hg_ug/411/subcategory/411001/part_id/2561497/lang/e

 

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/OCT/year/2016/drive_standart/753/hg_ug/411/subcategory/411002/part_id/2561497/lang/e

[Combi_Bob]

Going by the url's they're all 2016 so I'll be on 50mm. Thanks for that. 😊