New battery on Mk3 and voltages

[Fabia3iow]

I'm approaching 2 years of ownership of my my 2016 1.2 tsi SE and today had my original battery changed at Halfords for one of their EFB013 65Ah ones. Having watched the demise of my original Moll battery using a voltmeter over the past year and reading the stop/start issues on these forums I thought might add what happened with the voltages in my experience. 

Prior to replacement the battery would charge at 14.9 to 15.0V  with the engine running and/or driving AT ALL TIMES but would drop to just above 12V on turning the ignition off falling to 10.8V the next morning and this is the point at which, unsurprisingly, the car struggled to start. 

 

With the new battery  the charge, whilst driving with the foot on the accelerator was, 12.4V rising to 14.9V when the foot was taken off the accelerator and back to 12.4V when replaced. This was with all aux systems switched off other than driving lights. With the interior fan set at setting 2 the lower voltage was 13.4V. The response time for the voltages to rise and fall with the accelerator movement was 1 to 2 seconds each and every time. Sound exciting? Well it was for me because I was experiencing the much mentioned charging over-run. On returning home after a short drive the resting voltage was 12.8V and holding....and of course the stop/start function has returned whilst the battery is in it's good and new state of charge.

This was all with the charge control lead attached to the negative terminal. 

Now a word of warning. Euro Car Parts, as an example, offered me a cheap standard non EFB or AGM battery when I typed in my car's registration number. I must admit to being surprised at this and it shows these systems are fallible. It doesn't know my car has stop/start fitted. 

It's good to see the system working as it should (at the moment) but it shows that the over-run charging happens all the time on short trips and not, as has been suggested, only on long trips. This being the case it seems that the system works ok IF you have a healthy battery.  Well it does in my case at the moment and I will keep.an open mind and monitor how it goes. If you are getting a constant charging rate of 14.8-15.0V your battery is on it's way out and taking off the battery charge monitor lead will make no difference. Halfords service was excellent by the way, it's annoying you need all the gizmos to fit a  new battery and the extra charge (no pun intended) to fit it. If you offset that against the current £20 annual road tax and the fact that you will be paying a chunk of that battery cost if it were a standard battery you feel a little better about it. Anyway those were my findings 🙂

Edited 19 February, 2021 by Fabia3iow

[MinionBob]

@Fabia3iowWow, this sounds exactly like my story! Today it "ended" with me being unable to start. How does it goes with your issue? Has really the new battery fixed everything? I´m gonna fight for a new battery on the warranty (battery has 3 years warranty and its 2 years and 4 months) but the car has already 35k miles, so I hope they won´t say something like "It normal capacity decrease because of use and you have to pay for a new one".

[Fabia3iow]

Well, my battery was just outside the 3  year warranty before it started to fail and it went downhill for about 18 months before it finally died, I monitored it with a plug in voltmeter during the last year.

The new battery is working well. I don't do many miles at the moment but the charge for the first few miles is 14.9V before reverting back to the normal charging and over run charging that you would expect plus stop/start works fine. The new battery has a five year guarantee so I'm hoping it will last that long. 

I've never looked at battery warranties. Parts generally aren't covered by wear and tear or misuse but only faults due to the manufacturing process or the item not being fit for purpose. With sealed batteries you don't even have to check the acid levels so all they need is a minimal  maintenance charge and with 35k you would have achieved this.  

 

[MinionBob]

I have the plug in voltmeter as well. My car mostly charge at 14.9V, sometimes "slips" to recuperation 13.3V when pressing accelerator and back to 14.9V when breaking. Turning the ignition off makes around 12.0V. After locking the car at the evening is at 12.4V, at the morning 12.2-12.3V but when start ignition (without engine) drops suddenly to 11.9V. It still starts but...

 

Yesterday I did little maintenance with the washers nozzles, I had the car ignition (without engine, but everything like AC, infotainment system was off as well) on for an hour, and did few sprays and wipers movements, everything was fine, the spray, the wipers speed. After not even 24 hours, the car failed to start and the wipers worked as a snail. KESSY is off etc... I´m wondering and dunno how it could happen when at the evening yesterday was fine :-/ And had another story few weeks ago when I switched off the engine but was still doing something in the car with radio on, then after few minutes "Infotainment showed 12V battery getting low. Turn off the infotainment system or switch on the engine".

 

I really don´t think this is normal. Getting this message after 5, max 10 minutes (one story) and not being able to start after 1 hour with ignition on on the previous day (another story).  I remember how old Passat made us an entertainment with playing music for definitely more that 1 hour at our cottage and started next day with no problem.

 

 

So considering all the facts which I was able to picked up and your story, I really think that the battery is dead. But come on. Only 35k miles and 2 and 1/3 years?!

 

What´s your measuring now? When switching off the engine after the ride? I ques is not only 12.0V like before as your original post states.

 

Anyway. I did not get the last sentence. English is like my 3th language so, then sorry for any gaps. But what did you mean by "and with 35k you would have achieved this"? What have I achieved? The lifespan of the battery, so you think that I should pay for a new one from my pocked or have I misunderstood? 

[MinionBob]

And have you had overruns (is it something around 16V isn´t it) before on the faulty battery? I have not seen any on mine! Short or long runs. Does not matter.

 

My one is probably on a (should the indefinite article be here or not :-D)  bigger slippery slope than yours. As I said, the car is 2 years and 4 months old. I have it for a month by tomorrow. If it had started a year ago it would have been in an age of 1 year and few months of the car, which I personally find quite appealing. 

[rum4mo]

12 hours ago, MinionBob said:

Snip                                        -------     Snip.

 

Anyway. I did not get the last sentence. English is like my 3th language so, then sorry for any gaps. But what did you mean by "and with 35k you would have achieved this"? What have I achieved? The lifespan of the battery, so you think that I should pay for a new one from my pocked or have I misunderstood? 

You are doing okay for someone that is using english as a 3rd language, many of us "only english" speakers have difficulty understanding each other!

 

Anyway, if I can try to answer that question - I think that he was meaning that yes, that battery will have worked for long enough to allow Skoda not to replace it under warranty - but if you don't ask you will not find out if that is true in your country.

[Fabia3iow]

With your battery, you should try for a replacement whilst it is in warranty, that is what I would try. 

The resting voltage immediately after a run is normally between 12.2 and 13.0V in the short time I have had the new battery. 

With batteries it's all a out the charge retention time. A failing one can charge up ok but loses its charge more and more rapidly. If you are leaving your ignition on there will be some circuits activated and drawing current this whilst a battery is in its dying days could rapidly leave you under voltage. The ability of the battery to crank the engine and supply the necessary Amps is also a factor here. I've seen the battery voltage drop momentarily to 10.8V on both new and old batteries so it's not a direct indicator that a battery is in bad condition it is more its ability to hold a charge and having the internal plates in an unsulphated and un warped condition. 

Edited 10 March, 2021 by Fabia3iow

[MinionBob]

Guys, where is written that the warranty for the battery is 3 years? The car is in official Skoda garage and they say that battery has only 2 years warranty. I know it can vary in every country but let´s say for UK or Ireland. Where I can find this information? It has to do something with the extended warranty plan for 5 years / 100 000 km because without that is only 2 years for a whole car so extra 1 year for a battery would not make any sense at all.

[rum4mo]

@MinionBob, now that you have mentioned 2 years, it might be that in some countries, maybe even in UK, that Skoda UK,  VW UK, Audi UK and SEAT UK , back in 2018, where only giving the customer a "2 year new car warranty" + "1 year warranty on other parts". so some items would only be covered by the "2 year new car warranty", and other main assemblies covered by effectively the full 3 years.

[MinionBob]

Yes the car is manufactured and sold in 2018, but the technician clearly stated that he had seen 5 years / 100 000 km warranty in the system by VIN of the specific vehicle but claimed that the battery is excluded and has only 2 years.  Everyone everywhere on the internet speaks about 3 years for the battery, but no one was able until now to provide some evidence on Skoda website, in a handbook, contract etc. If I don´t find anything to "fight back" I will have to pay around 200 GBP from my pocked to have it replaced. Luckily the car is registered to a sole trader who is VAT payer is this price is VAT free and final.

[xman]

New car warranty

 

No mention of main battery being excluded/limited only keyfob battery.

 

Extended (factory) warranty bought at time of registration is same terms just longer time/mileage. Skoda have removed the booklet where this was detailed, or at least I can't find it anymore.

 

Edited 10 March, 2021 by xman

[Planetse]

Battery warranty if ONLY if the battery becomes defective. Same goes for all aftermarket batteries to. What you are describing is not an issue with the battery, but with either the smart charge system or the alternator. Nothing wrong with the battery. Your next one will soon die also.

 

[Planetse]

Plus, if you have put a battery charger on the car like you say. I really do hope not. You will have fried the smart charge on the cars ECU.  NEVER on a stop/start car charge across the battery. – negative terminal of the battery. Must ALWAYS use the battery – negative battery charging earth connection to the right of the battery on the inner wing…. Sounds like you may have given yourself hundreds of pounds worth of issues…..  

[Fabia3iow]

You may not have caused damage to the CPU, it doesn't mean damage is definitely done by charging through the negative battery terminal......won't say how I know 😏

[MinionBob]

21 minutes ago, Planetse said:

Battery warranty if ONLY if the battery becomes defective. Same goes for all aftermarket batteries to. What you are describing is not an issue with the battery, but with either the smart charge system or the alternator. Nothing wrong with the battery. Your next one will soon die also.

 

 

Such a positive comment :-) Will see tomorrow. The car is in Skoda authorized garage and tomorrow they will do battery stress test so will see if it passes or not. If not, then issue is obvious. If yes, than they will look into other things like alternator, smart charge, the resting (stand-by) consumption etc. I´m not such a stupid person to buy a new battery if they say that the battery is ok. And anyway the alternator seems to be working fine. 14.9V full charge or 13.3V when recuperating which is ok. But lastly it tried to charge 14.9V almost all the time, so I would really guess it´s a battery issue because the battery can´t be charged properly despite the alternator trying, it keeps charging at the maximum level. Let´s see tomorrow. 

 

16 minutes ago, Planetse said:

Plus, if you have put a battery charger on the car like you say. I really do hope not. You will have fried the smart charge on the cars ECU.  NEVER on a stop/start car charge across the battery. – negative terminal of the battery. Must ALWAYS use the battery – negative battery charging earth connection to the right of the battery on the inner wing…. Sounds like you may have given yourself hundreds of pounds worth of issues…..  

 

Have I written it somewhere? I hope not, or I was on drugs probably if I have written that....  Nope, I never have done this. I never connected the battery to any external power source at all. Only what I´ve mentioned here was that I have a phone charger to 12V plug that shows voltage as well. I highly doubt that such an accessory could damage anything. 

 

 

 

Edited 10 March, 2021 by MinionBob

[xman]

Charging using the negative battery post with any decent charger will NOT fry the ECU or anything else. What it will do at worst is confuse the battery management system as to state of charge (SOC) as you've bypassed the current sensor housed in the negative terminal connector. 

 

 

 

[MinionBob]

So good afternoon, gentlemen. Done, 200 GBP with 0% VAT.

I enclose the battery measurement report. They charged the battery and it was ok right after charging, however, in 18 hours it was dead. Completely. Unfortunately, the warranty claim was rejected because they found a post-installed GPS tracker in the car. Good to know, I'm going to have it removed right away. The previous owner was a large company and they probably had it there to monitor the employees so that they would not make a private car out of it. Quite “funny” having this in the car and not knowing about it.

So, warranty rejected because the idle (car turned off and locked) consumption is 0.24 and the normal is 0.11, which means they said that this contributed to premature battery failure.

So far, only one ride of 15 km, but I immediately saw on the voltmeter in the socket that it went even to 12.4 V, so just in “keeping” mode, which I never have got with the previous battery, sometimes to 13.3 V and then back again. Recuperation 14.9 V, but it was on the old one as well. I haven't seen the 16 V over-charging yet so we'll see. But the point is that with the old battery it never went to 12.4 V because it all the times tried almost desperately to charge the battery.

And a good ending in the end. It will be reimbursed to me by the original dealer under the used vehicle warranty. That is, not from the Skoda factory warranty, but from the classic seller-buyer purchase agreement. I mean by reimbursed that I have a new battery to pick up from them, but can´t now due to COVID, it is in another country, that´s the reason why I had to try to claim the factory warranty where I did. 

So brand new battery will be on Ebay for cheap really soon :-D 

 

Edited 11 March, 2021 by MinionBob

[Eccles]

The problem is that wretched stop/start system which can really cane the poor old battery in some circumstances, i.e. if you do a lot of town driving so that it that your engine is often stopping and starting. When I bought mine I had the service manager explain exactly what it was all about and from then on always turned it off with that little button marked "A" on the dashboard. Result battery lasted six years before it began to seem a bit weak. Oh and BTW get your stop/start battery on ebay rather than the likes of Halfords - mine was £85 rather than the disgusting amount Halfords ask.

[FabiaGonzales]

20 hours ago, Eccles said:

The problem is that wretched stop/start system which can really cane the poor old battery in some circumstances, i.e. if you do a lot of town driving so that it that your engine is often stopping and starting. When I bought mine I had the service manager explain exactly what it was all about and from then on always turned it off with that little button marked "A" on the dashboard. Result battery lasted six years before it began to seem a bit weak. Oh and BTW get your stop/start battery on ebay rather than the likes of Halfords - mine was £85 rather than the disgusting amount Halfords ask.

 

I do fairly mixed driving nowadays, some longer 30-40 mile trips but usually 5-10 mile ones with occasional shorter less than one milers, and i generally leave stop/start enabled.

My car's coming up to 6 years old now and the original battery is still going strong, every now and then i take it to halfords for their free battery tests and it keeps coming back flying colours, usually performing a little above it's ratings.

My battery has definitely done more than its fair share of cranking.

 

Back when lockdown first started, my car sat for just over 3 weeks, i got in it, it started up straight away, i got to the end of the street and to my surprise, stop/start kicked in.

 

When i'd had my hybrid turbo done it'd been sat with ignition on for a lot of time having maps altered etc between dyno runs and had drained the battery somewhat, stop/start didn't function for 3-4 days after and reported "engine must be running".

Still didn't have any trouble starting and no warnings on the dash or anything.

Once it'd got back up to an acceptable charge level stop/start started kicking in again.

[lol-lol]

Gone for a standard battery as a replacement in mine as I do not see the logic of paying out £200 for a start stop battery which can do 50,000 restarts  when I can get one for £60 than can do 20,000 restart, I  do not drive in London or any other big city ever.

 

Battery I choose to replace is badge Hankook !

Type 096

74 AH capacity.

680 A cranking power.

 

If I am driving around Worcester or another local city I might switch off the start stop .

Hope much fuel does a 1.4 TDI use at tickover ?  Not very much I would have thought.

 

Car only done 17k miles and is a 65 plate.  Why on earth did the first buyer buy a diesel doing so little miles I wonder.  To be worth its capital cost of the s/s system it would need to 

start stopping every mile and do a lot more than 20K miles I would have thought.

 

Was  a Bosch battery an original fitment, I would have thought so ?

 

Anybody else said nuts to fitting an expensive AGM or EFB battery and gone standard on their Fabia III ?

 

I found Tayna and Tewkesbury Battery Megastore as cheap as any body and I have a Halford Trade Card ! ?

 

[FabiaGonzales]

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Gone for a standard battery as a replacement in mine as I do not see the logic of paying out £200 for a start stop battery which can do 50,000 restarts  when I can get one for £60 than can do 20,000 restart, I  do not drive in London or any other big city ever.

 

Battery I choose to replace is badge Hankook !

Type 096

74 AH capacity.

680 A cranking power.

 

If I am driving around Worcester or another local city I might switch off the start stop .

Hope much fuel does a 1.4 TDI use at tickover ?  Not very much I would have thought.

 

Car only done 17k miles and is a 65 plate.  Why on earth did the first buyer buy a diesel doing so little miles I wonder.  To be worth its capital cost of the s/s system it would need to 

start stopping every mile and do a lot more than 20K miles I would have thought.

 

Was  a Bosch battery an original fitment, I would have thought so ?

 

Anybody else said nuts to fitting an expensive AGM or EFB battery and gone standard on their Fabia III ?

 

I found Tayna and Tewkesbury Battery Megastore as cheap as any body and I have a Halford Trade Card ! ?

 

Some people have a thing for diesels lol.

 

Standard batteries do not like the higher charging voltages and currents that the stop/start system uses. It can cause the acid to boil over and make the battery fail far sooner.

 

Yuasa AGM 096 battery i found for something like £120 on amazon, are you sure yours is 096 size? That CCA sounds more like the larger 027 or whatever it is, i'm sure the diesels use a larger battery.

[rum4mo]

I agree with @FabiaGonzales, that standard battery will get a bit annoyed when it gets routinely left under charged then stuffed with charge from the 15+V that alternator will throw at it under braking and generally always during the over run.

 

I checked the EFB in my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS the other day, it nowadays gets connected to a CTEK  charger after it has been used and left connected to it in the garage, at its previous but one service, the CCA of that battery had dropped back quite a bit, but during most of that time it had not been connected to a charger/maintanence unit very often, then lock down started and I started looking after that battery due to now much lack of use of that car and at the next service the CCA had improved slightly. the other day I checked that battery 6 hours after it had been used on an 18 miles round trip, and its present CCA when tested is back up to beyond its rated CCA - which is where these batteries tend to start off at when new, so it looks like I'll not need to replace that battery for some time yet, which is a pleasant surprise.  So as most people already know, if you don't look after your battery, it will not last long, I'm just lucky to be in the situation that I can look after it.

[lol-lol]

18 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

Some people have a thing for diesels lol.

 

Standard batteries do not like the higher charging voltages and currents that the stop/start system uses. It can cause the acid to boil over and make the battery fail far sooner.

 

Yuasa AGM 096 battery i found for something like £120 on amazon, are you sure yours is 096 size? That CCA sounds more like the larger 027 or whatever it is, i'm sure the diesels use a larger battery.

 

Not having had a diesel for ten years or so ie when the employer provided a car and said you can have any VAG car except a Skoda (not the brand image the company wanted, changed its mind now glad to say) so I had a SEAT Altea XL with the rubbish 2 litre CD (140) linked to the rubbish 6 gear wet plate DSG, which used more fuel than my current 1.4 TSI  Octy with 7 speed dry plate DSG and the wiesel was much slower of course. Nothing to commend it unless perhaps I wanted to tow with it which I did not.

 

I see no reason the "plain jane" battery will boil as the voltage regulator will keep the system at 14-15 volts. The standard battery would not be capable of recharging as quick as an AGM or EFB but I cannot see me doing very many start stops thousands not tens of thousands so do not see the need for those much more expensive batteries.

 

Is not the Yuasa only 70 AH ?  Good for several hundred thousands starts but I cannot envisage anywhere near that many start required unless one lived in central city and diesels are looking to be banned from such places over the next few years or pay huge entry charges.

 

Battery deffo a 096 .....https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/hankook-mf57412-car-battery-type-096/

Brand	Hankook
Manufacturer Part Number	MF57412
Voltage	12
Capacity (C20)	74
Cold Cranking (EN)	680
Terminal Type	A, Standard Automotive
Terminal Layout	RH+
Hold Down	B13
Dimensions (Including Terminals)	L277 x W174 x H190mm
Weight (kg)	17.5
Warranty	4 Years
Battery Technology	Sealed Calcium
Battery Application	Engine Start
Country of Manufacture	South Korea

 

[lol-lol]

5 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I agree with @FabiaGonzales, that standard battery will get a bit annoyed when it gets routinely left under charged then stuffed with charge from the 15+V that alternator will throw at it under braking and generally always during the over run.

 

I checked the EFB in my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS the other day, it nowadays gets connected to a CTEK  charger after it has been used and left connected to it in the garage, at its previous but one service, the CCA of that battery had dropped back quite a bit, but during most of that time it had not been connected to a charger/maintanence unit very often, then lock down started and I started looking after that battery due to now much lack of use of that car and at the next service the CCA had improved slightly. the other day I checked that battery 6 hours after it had been used on an 18 miles round trip, and its present CCA when tested is back up to beyond its rated CCA - which is where these batteries tend to start off at when new, so it looks like I'll not need to replace that battery for some time yet, which is a pleasant surprise.  So as most people already know, if you don't look after your battery, it will not last long, I'm just lucky to be in the situation that I can look after it.

 

We learn that in motorcycling big time.  Lucky to get two years out of a lead battery.  I think with bikes they tend to fit the smallest battery they can get away with due to effect of the weight on performance.

Answer I found is to go to Lithium battery.  Easily can loose 2 kgs which is over 1% of the weight of the vehicle. More importantly the daily charge loss is a fraction of lead and cracking massive if not the actual AH which tends to be considerably lower.

 

Just wish cars would catch up on the tech and the volumes bring down the cost of Lithium car batteries. 18 Kgs is a big lump of lard for a battery.

 

My 1 Kg Noco Lithium starter will start any of my cars and do it several times if required.  We have lost spare wheels form the car, fuel tanks now the size of teacups all in the name of weight loss but we still have this bloody heavy batteries  hauling around. At least it is positioned over the front axle I guess is something, could be worse it could be in the boot further messing up the weight distribution and traction. 

  

[Breezy_Pete]

1 hour ago, FabiaGonzales said:

Standard batteries do not like the higher charging voltages and currents that the stop/start system uses. It can cause the acid to boil over and make the battery fail far sooner

 

Are you sure it isn't the other way round?

 

This paragraph from batteryuniversity.com page on the subject suggests to me that it is the AGM type that would be vulnerable to damage if fitted in a car with conventional charging:

 

"As with all gelled and sealed units, AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. A charge to 2.40V/cell (and higher) is fine; however, the float charge should be reduced to between 2.25 and 2.30V/cell (summer temperatures may require lower voltages). Automotive charging systems for flooded lead acid often have a fixed float voltage setting of 14.40V (2.40V/cell); a direct replacement with a sealed unit could overcharge the battery on a long drive."