possible cam belt problem at 20k miles :(

[trishaB]

I've a 67 reg (November) green DIESEL vRS with only 20k miles on the clock. Last week I took it as far as the gate, got out to close it and heard the most horrendous screaming sound from the engine. so we dumped it on the drive and took hubby's car

I got it recovered to our local, very good, garage where there's a VW specialist. He says there's a TSB on it that 'if you hear this noise when the car's cold it might be the cam belt'. I'm pretty sure it's the belt and you can imagine the quote for changing that AND there's software update re catalytic converter too.

The garage couldn't replicate the noise late last week so they're keeping it for a few more days. 

 

Has anyone experienced this scenario and if so what did you do about it?  Did you contact SKODA and did you get any joy from them? I'm planning to contact them once/if it's properly diagnosed by the garage and I have all the details.  Apparently they changed the belt 3 times in a short period so they obviously knew something was wrong.

 

I have a video of the noise but it's 55MB so too big to post here.

 

TIA

[SC03OTT]

I think you need to be careful here that you don’t shoot yourself in the foot. 
 

Who changed the belt 3 times and how do you know that?

 

Have Skoda been involved in any past work with this issue?

[trishaB]

hi - Skoda have changed the belt spec 3 times in a short period - our garage VW expert looked into it for us and found the information. so, the conclusion is that Skoda knew there was an issue.

[PetrolDave]

2 hours ago, SC03OTT said:

Who changed the belt 3 times and how do you know that?

 

58 minutes ago, trishaB said:

hi - Skoda have changed the belt spec 3 times in a short period

So let's be clear here - Skoda have changed the belt spec 3 times, but how many times has the belt physically been changed on your car?

[trishaB]

4 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

 

So let's be clear here - Skoda have changed the belt spec 3 times, but how many times has the belt physically been changed on your car?

it hasn't been changed yet as it's only 3 yrs old and has only done 20k miles.  The standard is 5yrs or I think 140k miles?  so it shouldn't need changing but there is a 'screaming' noise from the engine when it's cold which sounds like a belt issue.

[trishaB]

if i could work out how to edit my original post i'd make it clearer

 

[PetrolDave]

5 minutes ago, trishaB said:

 there is a 'screaming' noise from the engine when it's cold which sounds like a belt issue.

The timing belt isn't the only belt, there's also an auxiliary belt that drives e.g. alternator - has that been eliminated as a possible cause of the 'screaming' noise?

[trishaB]

the garage hasn't been able to replicate the noise yet.  They're keeping the car and will try again mid week when they've got the time to do it.  I'm hoping it's not the timing belt but as SKODA has issues TSBs for it for my car I'm concerned it is. They have seen the video though but need to experience it for themselves before deciding how to proceed.

 

[Ecomatt]

Chances are it might have been moisture on the auxillary belt, which can make a noise when it slips. If the timing belt is fine and all the timing is still working then you will be fine. The tsb relates to some of the tensioners and adjusters making noise. One of the solutions is to spray lubricant onto the tensioners and adjusters to quieten then down.

VAG are always changing parts and revisions of parts so I wouldnt be unduly worried.

[SurreyJohn]

What was the weather (temperature and humidity) when the noise happened, and how many days since it had last been used, and was it parked outside.   Did you put a high load on the alternator (eg turning on electric window heater, & mirror, seat heaters etc

 

I query how many days parked, because you have a 3-4 year old car with only 20k miles, so clearly doesn’t do many miles per month.   Could have got quite a bit of condensation whilst parked.

 

If there had been condensation /damp a belt might have slipped a bit, more likely to be the auxiliary belt.  But if garage now parks it in the warm or dry they are never going to replicate a damp belt slipping however long they keep it.

 

I would get them to check the belt tension, and spray the pulleys of alternator, water pump etc with a water repellent, possibly also spray a few drops of penetrating oil on each of the shafts, just in case they are not turning  completely free.

 

 

Edited 7 March, 2021 by SurreyJohn

[trishaB]

It had been parked on the drive for 3 days before 26th Feb but had been on a long run (320 miles round trip) 3 days before.  She was started at c.9 30 am and historic data suggests it was 6 degrees C and dry.  We started her again on 3rd March when it was about 4 degrees C and dry and it happened again intermittently. She's in their outside yard at the moment until they look at it again.  I guess I'm weighing up the odds of spending £800 now including a software update v a new engine !  But there's a possibility it's not the timing belt so I'm really hoping the garage can hear it for themselves and diagnose properly. However, the symptom referred to in the TSB seems to fit: screaming noise when cold.

[trishaB]

1 hour ago, Ecomatt said:

Chances are it might have been moisture on the auxillary belt, which can make a noise when it slips. If the timing belt is fine and all the timing is still working then you will be fine. The tsb relates to some of the tensioners and adjusters making noise. One of the solutions is to spray lubricant onto the tensioners and adjusters to quieten then down.

VAG are always changing parts and revisions of parts so I wouldnt be unduly worried.

thank you

[ords]

If possible convert the video to mp3 format & post that. The file size will be much smaller

[MarkyG82]

Also try searching for fan or auxiliary belt noise on internet/YouTube. See if you can fine something that sounds similar.

 

I would be very surprised if the timing belt itself is making the noise as they don't slip. If they did you would have a very hard time keeping the engine running. Cars used to slip the fan belt quite often up to 15-20 years ago. Modern belts aren't affected so much. 

 

My guess is a fan/aux belt slipping and it's nothing to worry about unless it keeps doing it.

[J.R.]

Absolutely, if Ecomatt had ever removed and replaced the poly-vee belt having to back off the tensioner to do so he would be in no doubt and not suggest that the garage check the tension.

 

The tensioner or idler pulley bearings could screech and I believe that failure of the one way sprag clutch on the alternator pulley can also create a hell of a racket, I had to change the one on my MK1 Octavia, I recall it was really loud and took a long time to diagnose but not the actual noise, although like all of these things if I were presented with an engine making the same noise I would recall it instantly.

[trishaB]

3 hours ago, ords said:

If possible convert the video to mp3 format & post that. The file size will be much smaller

I'll 'phone a friend' ie hubby who's tech-savvy

[assybish]

3 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

Also try searching for fan or auxiliary belt noise on internet/YouTube. See if you can fine something that sounds similar.

 

I would be very surprised if the timing belt itself is making the noise as they don't slip. If they did you would have a very hard time keeping the engine running. Cars used to slip the fan belt quite often up to 15-20 years ago. Modern belts aren't affected so much. 

 

My guess is a fan/aux belt slipping and it's nothing to worry about unless it keeps doing it.

just to chime in here  the timing belt isn't slipping -  the hidden Skoda TSBs say that due to variations in timing belts 3 different ones used  in this period! and some issue with tensioners there is premature screaming and wear of the timing belt heard only at cold due to the belt sliding into the tensioner edge causing the scream and premature wear. It is sliding laterally and contacting the tensioner not slipping in rotational terms which would of course result in total engine failure die to valves being driven through the pistons etc . Premature failure may result  due to the friction between belt and tensioner but of course as it's an IN HOUSE TSB not a recall they claim no liability even within the warranty period ! On the same VIN and engine numbers range thee are 3 separate TSBs saying that premature failure of the accessory belt pulleys in the alternator and pump are a possible issue. There is a 3rd TSB stating that the ECU must be updated or premature failure of the catalytic converter will result! .. Nice one Skoda! So my wife is facing a £1000 bill outside warranty .. so we are looking at legal action as the mileage is so low and due to CV19 and shielding we haven't had chance to find this series of issues until now :(

 

[assybish]

8 hours ago, SC03OTT said:

I think you need to be careful here that you don’t shoot yourself in the foot. 
 

Who changed the belt 3 times and how do you know that?

 

Have Skoda been involved in any past work with this issue?

Skoda changed the belt and tensioner during manufacturing 3 times n the short period of this model and these changes have resulted in incompatibilites and premature failures acknowledged by their TSB . It is all original equipt on. this car 

[MarkyG82]

Sounds like you are clued up to the issue now you've had a chance to read up on it. Yep I was wrong. Didn't even think to question the lateral movement.

 

Please let us know how you go. You'd expect a good will as a minimum considering the situation.

[assybish]

6 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

 

So let's be clear here - Skoda have changed the belt spec 3 times, but how many times has the belt physically been changed on your car?

never ! 

 

[assybish]

20 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

Sounds like you are clued up to the issue now you've had a chance to read up on it. Yep I was wrong. Didn't even think to question the lateral movement.

 

Please let us know how you go. You'd expect a good will as a minimum considering the situation.

we shall .. my wife was just trying to be independent of me and also wondering if others with this model and time period had suffered these issues and whether they had any satisfaction from Skoda UK .. the dealerships are useless so it will fall back to Skoda UK one way or another . The key issue is ... is it accessory belt squeal due to moisture , pulley issues or timing belt/tensioner issues ?. The issue is IF it is the latter then it is £1000 as a genuine timing belt kit comes complete with belt tensioner and pump anything else isn't covered by parts warranty and out garage will not do it . If it is the accessory belt .. leave alone .. BUT if the timing belt subsequently fails neither Skoda or our garage will any have any liability and we have an £8000 bill for a new engine in a low mileage car! .. Hence her concerns and seeking help on this esteemed forum. My knowledge of mechanics stopped in the 70's with carburettors and real engines ..  . I have a VrS 230 petrol ..  and the excess electronics and inability to do anything without removing 1/2 the car really pees me off :( 

[MarkyG82]

Timing belt, tensioner kit and pump should be circa £500. Not £1k. Either way it's not a small amount of money.  However the car is 4 years old and sounds like you plan to keep it. Might be worth stumping up if found to be the timing belt?

[ords]

1 minute ago, MarkyG82 said:

Timing belt, tensioner kit and pump should be circa £500. Not £1k. Either way it's not a small amount of money.  However the car is 4 years old and sounds like you plan to keep it. Might be worth stumping up if found to be the timing belt?

Skoda quote about £600 for the job.  I'm getting mine done next week for £380 by an indie.

[assybish]

12 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

Timing belt, tensioner kit and pump should be circa £500. Not £1k. Either way it's not a small amount of money.  However the car is 4 years old and sounds like you plan to keep it. Might be worth stumping up if found to be the timing belt?

It's 3 years and 2 months old and only 20K miles . If it needs doing Skoda are facing a court action if they don't assist .. sorry .The bill is for genuine Skoda parts inc pump timing kit , accessory belt and software update due to catalytical issues . Upto my wife whether she keeps it . Yes if we use non genuine parts it is cheaper .. also NO warranty .. from Skoda or our garage

.. point for those who use local dealers and non genuine parts :( 

 

[MarkyG82]

Software update should be free of charge as it's a known issue.  What makes you say that dealers dont use genuine parts?  They are obliged to use the correct parts are they not.  They dont have skoda stamped on them (not all anyway).  Also the Skoda listed prices for timing belt + kit is something like £450 or £500 with water pump.  Should all be 'genuine parts'.

 

I would suggest you question the quote as part of your discussion with the dealer.

Edited 8 March, 2021 by MarkyG82