Auto DSG high cost repair - please help!!!

[Stuart2021]

Hi all,

First post on here and would be really grateful if anyone could help me please. I had a search for previous topics on this and fund similar but no quite the same/a few years ago they were posted (sorry if I've missed any of them!).

 

I have a 2009 Skoda Octavia 1.4. Is the automatic DSG gearbox. Last weekend when I was out it developed a fault when I was accelerating hard (e.g. going up steep inclines or overtaking on dual carriageways etc). Best way to describe it is that there was a lack of power when accelerating and the revs would shoot up on the display without the usual power.

 

I had the car booked into a local garage I use last week for a fault diagnosis. They have diagnosed the fault as a slipping clutch, and needs to be repaired with a replacement clutch and flywheel.

 

They have said using pattern parts (i.e. non-genuine Skoda parts), the repair cost will be around £1500 - £1600! They have loosely broken down the repair costs as follows. Replacement clutch and flywheel at £600.00, 2-3 litres of oil at £40-£50 per litre, approx 8 hours of labour to remove and fit.

 

I'm reluctant to spend this much on the repair as it is a 12 year old car and on a good day probably only worth between £1500-£2000. Having said that, the car has sailed through previous MOTs fine and the last one (August) had no advisories at all. As a family car it does do a great job in terms of swallowing up all the childrens tat and is (usually!) smooth to drive. Having said that I don't want to spend all that amount having it repaired only for something else expensive to come up in a few years time.

 

I was therefore wondering if people think it is a reasonable price that the garage has quoted? If I could find a quote more around £1000 I would consider the repair but as it is it is a lot of money (for me!) and I would struggle to get the money together to afford it at the current quote. I have tried another garage locally but they have said that it is a fault that a Dealer would need to work on (I will contact the local Skoda dealer to see how much they are but expecting them to be the same if not more!).

 

Any help/suggestions people could offer would be really appreciated :)

 

Thanks all

[Pilotguy]

All you can really do is shop around for comparative quotes.

 

Maybe best to stick to places in the Good Garage Scheme, looks like there are a fair few near you.  Good Garage Scheme

I had a DSG box failure on an A3 I owned, it’s not a cheap fix whether it’s electronics, or the physical stuff, as in your case.

 

[Stuart2021]

Thanks, will have a look at that. Yep does seem quite a complicated set up. Think next car I’ll research it more and try to get something that’s more simple to fix if it goes wrong!

[TheClient]

The y  obviously believe a clutch flywheel problem.  the slipping drive certainly indicates a clutch problem. Is this the seven speed or in 2009 probably more likely 6sp wet clutch?

 

If your happy with the car and know it's history I wouldn't totally dismiss spending the money. You have to consider what you would buy spending the same money, £1500.  Potentially a bag of problems.

 

The biggest cost is labour, clearly, so if you can find a transmission specialist who can dismantle a little quicker or at a lower rate that could be an option. But the biggest risk is facing further costs after disassembly or  repair. So the confidence, or guarantee that this will fix the issue is potentially worth more!

Edited 18 April, 2021 by TheClient

[Ootohere]

@Stuart2021 was the Dq200 DSG in your car part of the service campaign 34F7 started in 2014 on cars from 2009-2012.   The synthetic oil changed to mineral and a software update?  There should be a sticker in the spare tyre well if done.     Worth having the clutch packs replaced if that is all that is required IMO.  Just use a trusted place to do it. One with all the gear and more than just ideas.  ? How many miles has your car done?

[Stuart2021]

Thanks, will have a look in the wheel well. Only got the car a couple of years back through auction so not sure. It would be better if it is just the clutch that needs doing. The garage who quoted for it did say that they may need to get a specialist tool in for removal so doesn’t sound like they have many types of those repair going through. 

[xman]

Changing a clutch pack on a dq200 gearbox is a complex procedure, more than just remove and replace. I believe it involves numerous shims selected by measurement and then a calibration procedure that may require specialist diagnostic equipment. Its also possible, and given that this was a sudden fault, that its not the clutch pack, but the mechatronics unit has become faulty. A common problem being the pressure accumulator housing fractures and low pressure unable to move the clutch solenoid valves adequately.

 

So unless this garage has done these before and has the right knowledge and training, think twice. Even in main dealers there are often tales of escalating costs due to unsuccessful attempts at repairs.

[PipH]

Might be worth speaking to this company who look like they are pretty expert at repairing these boxes.

MILTA Technology | Automatic Gearbox Repair & Replacement

 

They report prices between £500 - £900 for a new clutch, depending on the model of gearbox.

 

They are in Bristol, so possibly not too far from you.

[Ootohere]

The cost has come down of the components and there are places that can do the repairs required with MCU's.

There are Main Dealerships that put the work out to specialists.

My friends experience was a rather sad one and much expense was the outcome.

Luckily his cars is still on the road. 

Just be sure of using competent and trained techs or mechanics.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/444617-7sp-dq200-dsg-failure

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/478695-dsg-issues

 

[slow_nick]

3 hours ago, PipH said:

Might be worth speaking to this company who look like they are pretty expert at repairing these boxes.

MILTA Technology | Automatic Gearbox Repair & Replacement

 

They report prices between £500 - £900 for a new clutch, depending on the model of gearbox.

 

They are in Bristol, so possibly not too far from you.

 

+1 for Milta. I have used them before, they are absolute experts with VAG gearboxes.

[Stuart2021]

7 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

The cost has come down of the components and there are places that can do the repairs required with MCU's.

There are Main Dealerships that put the work out to specialists.

My friends experience was a rather sad one and much expense was the outcome.

Luckily his cars is still on the road. 

Just be sure of using competent and trained techs or mechanics.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/444617-7sp-dq200-dsg-failure

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/478695-dsg-issues

 

Thanks for the link to the thread. Up till now I have been really impressed with the car but has definitely put me off buying Skoda again. Even for a 12 year old car with about 120k mileage id have thought the part should have lasted longer / not  be so costly to repair!

[Stuart2021]

Thanks for the links/recommendations to above btw. Will give them a call tomorrow to see what they think / suggest. Have family in Bristol so wouldn’t be too inconvenient 🙂

[Phil-E]

As above. There is a pretty common problem with the accumulator splitting.

 

This can on first sight look like a clutch failure.

 

But a fault code (or two) should appear with this fault.

 

It's also very easy to sort out. Drain oil, remove cover, replace parts (comes with a kit with a new seal etc), refit the cover and refill the gearbox.

[Stuart2021]

Just a little update on the above (thought would be useful in case someone else has this issue for reference etc). Car is currently booked in at Milta at beginning of June. Chap on the phone seemed helpful and suggested it may just need the clutch only replaced (still £950 ish though).

 

In the meantime I've found a diagnostic reader I've had laying around and plugged it in. Fault comes up as 'P0299 'Turbocharger / Supercharger Underboost''. A quick search online suggests that this may not be a clutch issue... I was wondering if anyone else please might have had the fault I'm having and this error code on the reader? If it does mean another fault which isn't the transmission then that would probs make my year as I haven't really got the best part of £1k to spend on getting it repaired at the moment!!

[Stuart2021]

Have now had a second opinion on the car as booked it into another local garage for a diagnostic. They road tested it and also checked with a fault reader which came back as a waistgate / boost pressure fault so they have said it does look like it is the turbo that is the issue. Also on the road test when going up hills under load the car will go into limp mode.

 

Garage has quoted £957.83 for a new turbo fitted. I did check about fitting a reconditioned unit/sending current one to be re-conditioned but they said that they only fit new due to issues they have had in the past with reconditioned units failing.

 

I did mention to them that the first garage diagnosed it as a clutch/flywheel fault which they think is strange as its definitely the turbo gone (I probably will see if I can get the money back from the first garage for the diagnostic cost as pretty annoyed they've mis-diagnosed it and also potentially could have been £1500-£1600 out of pocket for something that didn't need doing...)

 

To be honest I'm thinking about just getting a new turbo put on as then there will (hopefully) be no possible issues with it failing and then having the faff of arranging for it to be taken off again, sent back to the turbo repair specialists and then put back on the vehicle again. Also I'll have to find a garage or mobile mechanic that is prepared to take off the old turbo and then re-fit the reconditioned one.

[seriesdriver]

 it  may be sticky turbo vane overboost try running a bottle of this https://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/archoil-ar6400-d-max-professional-diesel-engine-turbo-dpf-cat-cleaner-concentrate.html throught it and take it on a motorway run, it has cured it on my car without the need to replace the turbo so far.

[Stuart2021]

Have got some turbo cleaner and had a look at running it through the other day. From researching online it looks like the turbo is at the back of the engine and the below pipe in black feeds into it? Just to make sure I’m not being a total numpty, but assume it’s just a case of undoing the screws arrowed and then spraying into the inlet at the top (i.e. where the top arrow is)?

Have tried also to arrange for a mobile mechanic to come out and take the old turbo off/instal the refurbished one but it’s been a real pain trying to get one to get back to me!

[Phil-E]

No. The turbo is right there at the front of the engine.

 

Bottom of your pic below the 2 red arrows. That's it.

[Phil-E]

And I'm pretty sure the cleaner goes into the exhaust side of the turbo? Not into the black pipe as that's the pipe coming from the turbo. Putting it in there means it bypasses the turbo completely and goes into the engine.

 

What cleaner have you bought? Where does it say it needs to go?

 

Edited 21 May, 2021 by Phil-E

[Stuart2021]

Thanks 🙂 Is the Wynn’s turbo cleaner.

[pikpilot]

I used a Wynn's cleaner on my Mk1 Octy 1.9L. If is the same product, it goes into the fuel tank and burns away the build up up of deposits that occur on the input side of the turbo that lead to the sticky vanes issue. In fact after I had the turbo replaced some time later, the Skoda dealer put another bottle in the tank at each annual service as a preventative measure.

 

Just check that it is compatible with the modern emissions systems on the Mk 2.

[J.R.]

Clever stuff if it can induce combustion to burn off deposits at one precise location in the exhaust system after having been combusted itself under compression ignition.

 

Clever enough to sell hope.

 

Mr Muscle on the other hand does work but not through the fuel tank, it needs an enema.

Edited 21 May, 2021 by J.R.

[Phil-E]

So looking at the instructions it can be used on either side of the turbo. So unless you know which side is sticking then you'll probably have to do the inlet and exhaust side.

 

For the inlet it needs to go in where the air filter joins the turbo inlet. It says to rev the engine to 2000rpm while squirting in short bursts. And some extra revs may be required to avoid stalling. Then let idle for a few mins and then take it for a gentle drive.

 

For the exhaust side you'd have to unbolt the exhaust/catalytic converter or unbolt it from the exhaust manifold.

[seriesdriver]

9 hours ago, J.R. said:

Clever stuff if it can induce combustion to burn off deposits at one precise location in the exhaust system after having been combusted itself under compression ignition.

 

Clever enough to sell hope.

 

Mr Muscle on the other hand does work but not through the fuel tank, it needs an enema.

The archoil product solved my issue I thought it was snake oil as you do, but my garage suggested trying it as an alternative to a replacement turbo and it worked.

The mr muscle treatment is better but not everyone is mechanically confident enough to take it on.  

 https://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/archoil-ar6400-d-max-professional-diesel-engine-turbo-dpf-cat-cleaner-concentrate.html#tab-label-description

[Stuart2021]

Finally a happy outcome with this one! Thought it would be good to update the thread in case anyone else has a similar problem in the future and for reference. 

Anyway, following the second garage diagnosing the problem as a faulty turbo and requiring a new one, I arranged for a mobile mechanic to come out and quote for removal/refitting of a turbo with a view to sending it off for refurbishment. 

The mobile mechanic did a quick diagnosis check first for me and plugging in the fault reader it did show up as a P0299 turbo issue. Following this he checked the around the air filter and also gave the boost pressure sensor a clean with electrical cleaner spray. 

Good news is that this totally resolved the issue and the car now drives perfect. It turns out that the Boost pressure sensor was dirty which was feeding back to an  error code showing up and being interpreted as a problem with the turbo from the fault code reading. 

To identify where the sensor is it is located towards the back of the engine on the top. Part code on the front of the sensor is 0 281 002 399. 

He just charged for the labour / call out of £35.00 which I was really pleased with. 

I’ve complained to the original two garages as feel that I’ve had to pay out for a quotation / fault diagnosis which was totally inaccurate. In fairness to the second garage I can see how they came to the conclusion that it was the turbo and when I dropped it off they were very busy that day. The second garage has agreed to refund the quotation cost which is a good outcome and they did say that they should have been clearer that they would have investigated the issue in more depth before fitting a new turbo… 

I’m still waiting to hear back from the first garage but thought give them reasonable time to respond. Thankfully I didn’t go ahead with their suggestion for a replacement clutch/flywheel or take it to Milta to have a look at as it turns out that it was nothing to do with transmission side of things. 

I think I will look at selling the car in the short term as with the age and mileage of the car I’m dreading something expensive actually going wrong!