This might be snake oil and totally contradicts my "googled" knowlege but on my 1.5TSI DSG (DQ200) I was getting around 36-38Mpg on an average short run with the old e5 fuel and to my astonishment it seems to have GONE UP to 40+ MPG when using E10 (with no other additives).  Today I got 43MPG and I am not light footed. I have never got 43 before on a 20 mile journey.  

 

way to go E10 !!

My car obviously likes it better than E5

 

Good to hear this as many are saying the same thing.

 

But then in the next 3 weeks it will be Winter Grade Petrol & Diesel that starts being delivered to filling stations starting in Scotland and the North of England.

I like that and especially Winter Spec E5 Super Unleaded that has a formulation which is less Hygroscopic.

Maybe more people will have sussed how their economy is with the current E10 95 ron before the winter spec E10 95 arrives.

 

The mods did ask that E10 threads went in the General Automotive Chat section along with the many others.

On 29/09/2021 at 18:00, smipx said:

This might be snake oil and totally contradicts my "googled" knowlege but on my 1.5TSI DSG (DQ200) I was getting around 36-38Mpg on an average short run with the old e5 fuel and to my astonishment it seems to have GONE UP to 40+ MPG when using E10 (with no other additives).  Today I got 43MPG and I am not light footed. I have never got 43 before on a 20 mile journey.  

 

way to go E10 !!

My car obviously likes it better than E5

 

 

 

I've found out I'm filling up more. 😳

^^^ That must be the Electricity generated from dirty coal you are getting now!

The difference between E5 and E 10 is so small thatthe error in calculating is probably more than the difference between the grades. It should be almost insignificant.

I hear mixed reviews on the economy.

The other half has a Polo TSI, the economy has been around 5% less on E10 fuel whereas others claim they have seen an increase.

I don't mind though as her car is now getting the same MPG as my diesel 😂 

 

 

8 hours ago, Routemaster1461 said:

The difference between E5 and E 10 is so small thatthe error in calculating is probably more than the difference between the grades. It should be almost insignificant.

 

The 1.6% difference in calorific value is a scientific fact.

When one is buying E10 one is buying a higher percentage of Oxygen in the fuel rather than hydrogen and carbon.

Hydrogen and carbon provide the energy when their atomic bonds are broken, oxygen is the atom that gets added to the carbon and hydrogen to make the CO2 and water, effectively when one is buying E10 one is buying air/oxygen that would normally be free if one was just using pure petrol without ethanol.

 

So in a perfectly set up engine one would get 1.6% less power or less fuel consumption with E10 over E5. 

If an engine is working perfectly this would be the result but if an engine was running a bit lean, for some engine management unit issue, one might get parity or even better mpg with E10 over E5 but the logical conclusion is 1.6% less mpg with E10 over E5 or 3.2% over pure petrol.

 

 

People who use fuelly.com, spritmonitor.de or other similar sites that may exist; or who just keep good records of every litres to brim-full against trip meter readings are the only ones whose info on changes E5-E10 will be worth really trusting. Even then probably not until a year has gone by, to allow for seasonal variations.

 

(Probably) Nobody here knows what changes might be made to the non-ethanol part of what we're buying now, nor how much ethanol actually is in any given batch of E10, given that it's one of those 'may contain up to 10% ethanol' type things isn't it? Not 'will always contain 10%"?

@lol-lolLess 1.6% of the additional 5% if there is an extra 5% is it not?

Well the Karoq I have must have come from the factory "a bit lean" then (perhaps by mistake or perhaps in anticipation of folk using E10 fuel). All I can say is my MPG appears to be a little better and not a little worse (and I'm happy with that). 🙂

 

The car has been serviced by VAG twice (once about 2 months ago).

 

On the subject of Oxygen : https://auto.howstuffworks.com/oxygen-engine.htm

Its not just a binder 🙂  but - of course not relavant or useful in this application either.

 

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Surely Haymarket Media group which owns publications like What Car, Auto Car & Pistonheads and also has a financial interest in an Engine Analytics company will be having 

Tests carried out now with fuels on sale now and with Euro 6 petrol cars.

 

The same company does research and tests for the UK Government.

 

Getting the actual figures on emissions with vehicles running E10  95 ron Unleaded  or E5 Super Unleaded, some of which do not have even up to 5% Bio. 

 

It would be interesting to know which fuels have how much Bio in them now, and regional differences around the UK.

 

 

 

Edited 2 October, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

Perhaps the car manufacturers tweaked their sofware to meet emissions tests at the detriment of E5 fuel users??  Maybe (just maybe) VAG tweaked their cars to be great in the latest tests and those tests used E10 (perhaps).  For the UK the emissions might have been (perhaps) worse until the UK adopted E10 as the engine was tweaked via software algorithms to run most efficiently on E10 and E5???

 

We all remember Diesilgate and the lengths some manufacturers went to to manipulate the figures with all sorts of unkown consequences.  Who knows what they might have done here with a 2019 1.5tsi with DSG to scrape it past WLTP and who knows why my car "seems to be better" on E10 than it was on E5.

 

I know nothing of these things and am speculating wildly with no real knowlege to be honest. What I do like is my new more fuel efficient Karoq 🙂

If it is not all 2019 1.5TSi DSG Karoq's then it must be snake oil (some other factor like Roadworks on usual routes, driving slower because of mobile speed traps that are in over exuberent force in my area just now, etc. etc.)

or... My car was set overly lean at teh factory and was never picked up in the two services (or adjusted) - but I don't know if it even a fixed thing these days (controlled dynamically by the ECU???).

or.. my car was tweaked at the last service (August) in anticipation of E10 rolling out in September ???

 

Probably snake oil - ha ha...

 

Paul

 

@smipxIf you are watching economy now and then by maybe late October and early November the conditions you drive under and the ambient temp is much the same 

you might see if any change when Winter Spec petrol is in filling stations in the South West. 

Consumption might even get better as long as it is just a bit colder but you are not only doing short trips.

No need for defrosting and messing about.  

Edited 2 October, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

On 01/10/2021 at 20:49, e-Roottoot said:

@lol-lolLess 1.6% of the additional 5% if there is an extra 5% is it not?

 

Ethanol has about two thirds the caloric value of petrol so each 5% increase of ethanol reduces the calorific value of the fuel we buy by 1.6% ie one twentieth of a third hence the 1.6%.

 

I loved running ethanol and used to when I could.  Amazing how well Skoda Citigo do in South America where they are running on lots of Ethanol.  They did get bigger fuel tanks than Citigo have in Europe. 

 

 

 

Edited 4 October, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

1 hour ago, e-Roottoot said:

I loved running ethanol and used to when I could.  Amazing how well Skoda Citigo do in South America where they are running on lots of Ethanol.  They did get bigger fuel tanks than Citigo have in Europe. 

 

I do not like that the enthanol fire burns without the strong color of petrol and people have been burning and other do not realize. 

 

https://youtu.be/SmcPuPU-oVQ

 

Renault / Dacia have heaps of experience running both E25 and the Ethanol fuel due to their massive sales in South and Central America.

 

In the 2 litre Sandero VRS, non turbo, 145/150 hp, the fuel consumption must be pretty bad 30 to 40 mpg I would expect.

Edited 3 October, 20214 yr by lol-lol

Magic juice........

Available from Eurocar parts and other automotive part retailers.

My local petrol station was out of E5 high octane when I went to fill up with wiesel on Sunday.

 

E5 shortage....

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1505804/e10-petrol-changes-fuel-efficiency-e5

 

Twitter user David Reynolds claimed: “The impact of E10 fuel on MPG is still hitting me.   “Now down from 33.5 MPG to 28.7MPG from my Kia Sportage AWD.   All petrol stations within 10 miles have diesel and E10 but no E5.”  Express.co.uk commenter Trevor Ammanford said there was now “plenty of E5 fuel available at your local filling station for older cars” because of the recent petrol price increases.  In response, fellow commenter, Tabby Menace claimed: “Not where I live.  “Some of my local supermarket garages are out of E5 and have been for a week.

I am finding no difference in my Roomster, certainly no worse. I have put it down to having the detuned 1.2 tsi giving only 86bhp but it seems not. 

OT of E10 but relevant to those buying fuel. 

Winter Spec Petrol & Diesel should be getting delivered to filling station now in Scotland and the North of England and then further south as time goes by and until the end of March 2022.

That is a formulation that is less hygroscopic, and additive to protect against waxing in the diesel / red diesel. 

Edited 16 October, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

On 16/10/2021 at 12:09, roottoot said:

OT of E10 but relevant to those buying fuel. 

Winter Spec Petrol & Diesel should be getting delivered to filling station now in Scotland and the North of England and then further south as time goes by and until the end of March 2022.

That is a formulation that is less hygroscopic, and additive to protect against waxing in the diesel / red diesel. 

Google says that `OT` means Occupational Therapy. That can't be right!

Off Topic in this instance, I think. @mandp

 

I got a nice well-above-longterm-average 47mpg out of my last tank of E10 in my Polo.  Can't say I'm experiencing any negative changes thus far in either car.

Edited 21 October, 20214 yr by Wino

I'm seeing no change from E5 regular to the new E10, I'm still seeing 40-48mpg depending on how I drive. I've been putting Morrison's Super E5 in it and I think the car feels a little sharper, but that could be a placebo.

1 hour ago, mandp said:

Google says that `OT` means Occupational Therapy. That can't be right!

Yes it can, but as usual with a TLA, the acronym has synonyms!  

31 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Yes it can, but as usual with a TLA, the acronym has synonyms!  

Maybe I should have paid more attention at my English lessons 65 years ago!

BOT...E10 doesn't seem to have made any difference to my car I'm pleased to say.

Edited 21 October, 20214 yr by mandp