Long time listener first time caller, I've had a good look for similar issues but can't seem to find ones for the tdi only the sdi but feel free to point me in the right direction.

 

Had my mk1 Fabia (estate) for a few months now but recently changed from an A-road commute to a motorway one and I'm struggling to hold a maintain speeds on any hills and no overtaking power atall once above ~40.

So basically what I need to know, is this normal for this engine/model or is there something wrong? It drives fine the rest of the time, doesn't have much go until 2000 rpm but then takes off for town driving, it just seems to give up when doing a longer pull.

 

The Car:

90k miles

~3000 since service (using bosch filters etc)

remapped [at a local well recommended garage] (brought alot of life back into town driving but just gives up on motorway)  definitely not getting the 140bhp promised though!

Girlfriend's car (1.4tdi 65plate fabia) feels like a rocket ship in comparison!

The only thing I can find physically wrong under the bonnet is the breather hose is split, but this would be the same as the elephant mod so if anything would improve it? 

 

It's hard to explain the issue but going along at 70 sitting 2-2.5k revs and road tips up slightly and the speed just starts falling off and I have to retreat to the slow lane, revs seem to stay the same but I can have my foot flat on the floor and it just keeps getting slower..

Similar story for if I want to overtake on dual carriageway, drop down to 4th and floor it, bit of activity and then just seems to hit a limit and just won't try any harder. In the lower gears I can push 2nd/3rd to 3.5k and it has power pretty much all the way up.

 

I was almost happy to just accept this just may be what a 20year old car is like but then I got overtaken on the motorway by a similar vintage sdi fabia... Help?

 

Throttle pedal position sensor? Perhaps a long shot but mine felt like s*** when the sensor was playing up.

 

On mine, the pedal and sensor are one unit with three bolts. You have to remove the lower dash panel (or I had to, rather) to get access.

 

I'm sure someone else may be able to advise in relation to other items which could be on their way out etc, however.

Edited 4 November, 20214 yr by AnnoyingPentium
Additional Information.

@AnnoyingPentium thanks for the tip, did yours have any particular symptoms when it was playing up? Is it something an obd reader could potentially pickup (assuming pedal angle is broadcast)? Another possible issue I thought of is that the car slows down quite dramatically (almost jerky) when I take my foot off the accelerator (normally noticeable when I'm dragging out lower gears a bit too long) but that could be a unrelated issue!

42 minutes ago, maw_mk1_fabia said:

thanks for the tip, did yours have any particular symptoms when it was playing up?

 

Holding engine revs after pressing down on clutch (would drop very slowly), severely down on power (it's noticeable, even if I had 64hp to start with ), odd idle too (wavering between 1,500 and 500rpm) sometimes wouldn't turn over either.

 

43 minutes ago, maw_mk1_fabia said:

Is it something an obd reader could potentially pickup (assuming pedal angle is broadcast)?

 

Mine didn't show anything up, but I knew what the issue was.

 

44 minutes ago, maw_mk1_fabia said:

Another possible issue I thought of is that the car slows down quite dramatically (almost jerky) when I take my foot off the accelerator (normally noticeable when I'm dragging out lower gears a bit too long) but that could be a unrelated issue!

 

I don't know if that's the nature of the Fabia accelerator, but mine did (and still does) jerk when you bring your foot off the throttle. I cannot vouch for diesel Fabias having only ever driven this one and been a passenger in a 1.4 OHV many, many moons ago.

Next time it happens cycle the ignition, if it picks up power even if only for a few seconds then its the vanes and/or the actuator sticking on the turbo, time for a Mr Muscle enema!

breather hose being split is defo not going to help you .. this can  basically implode on its self  causing  breathing problems  with in the system ... fix that first 

I can also read from your description another fault I once created, I had not correctly inserted and clipped into position one of the solid to flexible turbo hose joints albeit on the MK2 by then, it did not hold boost for long enough to detach or be noticeable in the lower gears but in the higher ones and at higher speeds it was exactly as you described.

 

I was faced with a drive back to France but on a dual carriageway it could barely maintain 70mph on the flat, the slightest incline was like you described.

Check all pipework for splits and other damage, especially at connection points.

start with the basics first before  spending money unnecessarily ...

Thanks to everyone for the help, I've got a half day tomorrow so should hopefully be able to look at it in the light and report back. Wasn't brave enough to kill ignition on a busy M1 heading home tonight but will find somewhere quieter and give @J.R.'s suggestion a go.

Cheers!

7 hours ago, maw_mk1_fabia said:

under the bonnet is the breather hose is split

Well, for sure that won't help.

 

As for the throttle, IME this works, with maybe a slightly jerky pickup, or throws a CEL and puts the car into limp mode.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

Well, for sure that won't help.

 

As for the throttle, IME this works, with maybe a slightly jerky pickup, or throws a CEL and puts the car into limp mode.

Could you elaborate on the crank case breather not helping, purely for my understanding as I thought this was a non pressurised system and not critical as some people do the elephant mod and cut it out the system altogether.

I should've also added that I've removed the broken pipe and bunged the non engine side so it's just venting to air. (The bung may not be perfect seal)

 

Would it be able to recover from limp mode by itself as it's fine as soon as I reach the top of the hill, just steadily accelerates back to 70 and get a bit of power back.

 

Please don't think I'm second guessing you, really just curious as I'm fairly technical but sometimes cars just run on witchcraft!

11 hours ago, maw_mk1_fabia said:

Would it be able to recover from limp mode by itself

No; you don't get limp mode until the sensor is FUBAR. I think you're still in the earlier stages of the failure. That said, I can't describe it any better.

As you've remaped the engine (at 90k?) and modified the engine 'breathing' (after only a few months of ownership) you're now off standard but still the basics are important.

 

With 90k-miles on it despite the recent service (of the engine or whole car?) along with all other advice I'd consider cleaning any air inlet and exhaust sensors that you can.  Personally I'd disconnect the battery and fully recharge it on a long low slow recharge (not fast high), at least overnight if required, this will also hopefully also get resets on the car's computers though you could also briefly switch on a few electric bits with the battery disconnected to lose any stored electricery in the car's bits.

 

Any leaks want sealing, search for any and all leaks.  Air not being registered correctly by sensor(s) will mean they're not giving correct info to the computers for running the car and the leaks can have physical effects too.

 

Get the crankcase breathing wrong and you could be throwing more muck and oil in than is already usual which will literally mess up sensors and running.

 

 

Edited 5 November, 20214 yr by nta16
speeling and stuff

There's a lot of hot air in this thread but I suspect there's precious little actually getting into your engine.

The first place to start is to check you're getting boost because I think your turbo has failed, god alone knows how the remapper missed it but there is no way that car should be slow, remapped it should go nearly as well as a standard VRS so it's seriously ill.

52 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

There's a lot of hot air in this thread but I suspect there's precious little actually getting into your engine.

The first place to start is to check you're getting boost because I think your turbo has failed, god alone knows how the remapper missed it but there is no way that car should be slow, remapped it should go nearly as well as a standard VRS so it's seriously ill.

I like your humour. 😁

 

And your confidence of diagnosis over just the information given - and you may well be right about the turbo - or not, hopefully it might be other issue(s).

 

I'm not sure why you think to the remapper miss it it, if it is the turbo all out of puff perhaps the remapping helped to break a weakened car /component/ system/part in which case the remapper is negligent in at least not asking about the car but I don't know, perhaps they did, or a questionnaire was completed.

 

A 20 year old car with 90k-miles, that needs known history and/or full whole car servicing, maintenance and repairs and then time and use before any "upgrades" are considered.  I don't know with this remapping but to get big gains usually the car manufacturer's parameters are altered which may be fine if all the various conditions and circumstances the car manufacturer parameters allow for aren't encountered after the remapping.

 

I've no idea, maw_mk1_fabia's car may have always been from new a very well cared for car with only 90k-miles of regular driving so is ideal for upgrades and improvements and this issue is just fair wear and tear or just bad luck or fairly easily resolvable.

 

I have the uncertainty of old age - but at least I'm certain about that.  😁

 

Edited 5 November, 20214 yr by nta16

Could be almost anything. Does it smoke heavily when it does this? Do the brakes get red steaming hot?

What happens if you drop to 4th gear?

3 hours ago, vindaloo said:

What happens if you drop to 4th gear?

 

Do keep up (even if it means dropping a gear or two). -

 

On 04/11/2021 at 13:12, maw_mk1_fabia said:

Similar story for if I want to overtake on dual carriageway, drop down to 4th and floor it, bit of activity and then just seems to hit a limit and just won't try any harder. In the lower gears I can push 2nd/3rd to 3.5k and it has power pretty much all the way up.

 

Get an OBD2 reader on it. At least buy a ELM327 and pair it with your smart phone. Autoexpress tested a bunch of OBD2 readers earlier this year.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product-group-tests/352913/best-obd-readers-2020

 

Best option would be to find a helpful forum member with VAGCOM or VCDS who is close enough and wants to help out.

There used to be a map....

Good advice there to get a scan tool on it, also requires someone who can correctly interpret the results and carry forward the diagnostics (with and without scan tool).  Do NOT just rely on raw error codes, and anyway codes may not be triggered even though there are faults.  I know the modern fashion is for quick answers and solutions but sometimes they're not there or if they are they could be incomplete or wrong.

 

45 minutes ago, vindaloo said:

Best option would be to find a helpful forum member with VAGCOM or VCDS who is close enough and wants to help out.

There used to be a map....

Here it is. - https://tinyurl.com/yn6mmtyk

 

Apologies for the silence, got busy with work and then decided to just drop it into a shop for diagnosis (German autocentre Sheffield). They tested for leaks and tested the actuators etc and all were fine, turbo was sent away and internals were apparently dead, cue large bill for new turbo (it's an old car, they know alot more than me etc etc).

 

Got the car back mid last week but only got round to a motorway trip on Friday and if anything its got worse on the uphills, possibly feels slightly faster about town but that could be in my head. The garage wanted to swap out the egr as they were saying this was affecting performance but as far as I can see it's clean (nothing like some of the pictures on here) and everything is still working as expected, I cut the egr out of the loop with a bolt in the vac line and this didn't change anything noticeably. Planning on taking this off this evening for a proper clean and check over.

 

After this egr check, I'm at a bit of a loss for where to go next. Could pay for some time with a vagcom but not sure if I know the questions to ask if any codes aren't immediately showing (requested/actual boost etc?)

 

Sorted the crank breather btw, not much change just less warm smells after a journey.

 

Nothing against German autocentre btw, just haven't got a huge amount of money floating around to throw at possible issues, they've been good for anything else previously.

 

 

 

 

 

 Review comments in the below thread for info on ways to check boost pressure real time cheaply. May assist in looking if new turbo is actually boosting.

 

9 minutes ago, KeithCheetham said:

 Review comments in the below thread for info on ways to check boost pressure real time cheaply. May assist in looking if new turbo is actually boosting.

 

Thanks was typing this as you posted! Just done a test drive with an obd tool in and the torque app up, just now need to do some research into what it all means!

 

Just to add a bit more, not doing the egr just yet as I believe the bolt 'delete' is working as the engine is taking a while to get to temp. 

 

But did manage to borrow a mates obd reader (elm clone) and take him for a test run up a junction on M1 (mainly to prove its not in my head). 

 

Few points from this:

-1st and second gears boost is going to around 15ish psi (will record my commute tomorrow), 3rd was a similar story but on motorway in 4th and 5th it was dropping down to 11-12ish (slight hill between 34 and 35 if you know the M1)

 

-need to research what this actually means but, low gears driving a bit throttle happy the MAF values were peaking 36-40ish (grams/sec). On the motorway when the engine was refusing to do much the values were sitting nearer 30g/s

 

-another odd one, correct me if this is wrong but my exhaust tail pipe is cold after a good half hour rag about. Like I could hold it a minute after stopping, excuse the terminology but it was properly hot (couldn't touch) upto the back box and then the box was warm. Have noticed it's a bit shagged so might be a replacement on the cards, could all this be a back pressure thing? Does a MK1 report exhaust pressure on a vagcom?

 

 

The throttle display acted as I expected and not sure what the load was reporting but it did its own thing! Should I be looking at anything else or are there better apps to use? (Torque lite currently)

 

Thanks again for the pointers!

 

34 - 35, cooling towers up to Chapeltown isn't steep so should have no issues. The next part is theoretical working in my head. Boost is not really related to revs - drive at 70mph on flat with light throttle and look at boost value, floor throttle and boost should go up - but more to pedal position and fuel being burned producing gasses to spin turbo and vehicle loading (resistance to speed change). Obviously map fuelling curve will also have some effect on limiting fuel allowed in to be burned. Cannot comment on exhaust temp but appears strange - can it be run with back box off, think single pipe to box with 2 tailpipes on 1.9TDI so possibly only 1 joint to break - could it be blocked as restriction would stop boost building.

 No exhaust pressure gauge I don't think, generally for before/after DPF but someone may clarify.

 I am running Torque 1.8.205 which has an option for "Turbo Boost & Vacuum Gauge".

 Areas to clarify as I don't think I have seen timeline history.

 1/ Was the car un-mapped when bought - were these issues present

 2/ Did you have it mapped and were issues immediately apparent

 3/ If issues after having mapped, did you get a copy of the original map. If you have a copy I may be able to run under VAGEDC15P and see what power/power curve it shows. 

 

 Just a shame you don't have boost values before the turbo was swapped out as strange it feels worse - could new turbo be restricted on boost by blocked backbox? As you may note, above not based on actual facts but general gut feelings and RCA (Root Cause Analysis) methods. 

Classic MAF sensor drift symptom.

 

Try a new MAF sensor

 

Make sure you get the correct part no for your engine

Edited 6 December, 20214 yr by xman