22 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

no it would not i dont think the amount of air at idle can alter significantly 

 

Make me a huge favor, as the Felicia is out in the road make a Cold Start in the morning and time it with your cellphone, from the crank and 1100 rpm how many minutes takes to go to down the idle limit of 850 rpm?

47 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

as the Felicia is out in the road make a Cold Start in the morning and time it with your cellphone

My felly is no longer on the road...
 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

My felly is no longer on the road...
 

 

 @HappySkoda Felicia also took 3.45 minutes, yours before turn it to LPG do you remember if was the same? or less?

On 26/10/2022 at 20:19, Thefeliciahacker said:

My felly is no longer on the road...

Why??? What happened?

On 30/10/2022 at 00:21, R_Blue said:

Why??? What happened

Can't tell you more right now but I can assure you that it's not the end... 

On 31/10/2022 at 08:11, Thefeliciahacker said:

Can't tell you more right now but I can assure you that it's not the end...

The"Mysterious"feliciahacker

You helped me a lot. Please inform me if you need anything that I could provide help.

44 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

The"Mysterious"feliciahacker

You helped me a lot. Please inform me if you need anything that I could provide help.

And will continue to help i am commited to this forum.
No worries, my felly is NOT CRASHED, NOR MECHANICALLY DAMAGED, lets say she just started a new chapter of her life... a chapter well deserved imho

@R_Blue : do me a big favour, the next Felicia owner that you find in the street grap him and ask him with serious look ''what's your cold start time? What's your fuel consumption in a city traffic?''

If he is hesitating tell him that is a matter of national security and must answer otherwise will face the consequenses.

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

@R_Blue : do me a big favour, the next Felicia owner that you find in the street grap him and ask him with serious look ''what's your cold start time? What's your fuel consumption in a city traffic?''

If he is hesitating tell him that is a matter of national security and must answer otherwise will face the consequenses.

Of course. I will.

You are only interested in MPI, right?

 

There are lots of carburetor Felicias here. I even saw mk2s.

I have a carburetor too you know and I can get whatever rpms at whatever duration at startup. (I'm not implying that a carb. is better than MPI. It's not.)

 

My current adjustment is like this:

After cold start, engine idles between 500-800 rpm. It depends on electrical loads and/or oil condition. (New oil means thick oil.) While the engine warms up, it will work more freely. On the last step of the fast idle mechanism, it reaches 1100 rpm. That happens around 55ºC. (Fast idle duration depends on how fast the car reaches 55ºC) After passing the fast idle stage at this moment, idle falls around 600-700 again. It gradually rises around 850-900 when engine temperature reaches 80ºC. At winter, I rise the "no-electrical load idle" around 1000. Because, increased electrical load at winter, drops the idle. If it falls below 800rpm, alternator can't generate enough power and the rest of the lacking power comes from the battery and that means, the car won't crank next morning. 😞

 

Auto RPM adjustment is one of my favorite features from modern cars. Your problem is, Felicia ECU is stuck between being modern and old-school. Mostly because of the OBD1 port. If I were you, I would look upon the option of converting to a custom ECU system. I bet, even the most basic one will be better than Felicia's. Just think about it, all ECU related adjustments and a wide range of live info will be at your fingertips.

12 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

You are only interested in MPI, right?

Of course.

Custom ECU means a fortune and i don't know if any programmer here would like to spend time with it. I already have an ECU-chip (updated recently) and my main problem is that it takes 3.40 minutes at cold weather to go from 1100 to 800 rpm.

I wonder if i make the coolant "thinner" (more "weak") could this help a bit?

On 02/11/2022 at 21:51, D.FYLAKTOS said:

do me a big favour, the next Felicia owner that you find in the street grap him and ask him with serious look ''what's your cold start time? What's your fuel consumption in a city traffic?''

Couldn't find someone with a stock MPI engine yet. Almost everyone convert their fuel system to LPG. The LPG system for MPI engines is different than what I have in my car. It's a "smart" system. It starts with gasoline and automatically switches to LPG when engine temperature reaches 30ºC.

 

One Felicia MPI owner claims, 5.5l gasoline on intercity roads. City consumption was 7lt. That was almost 10 years ago before he adopted a LPG system.

Another user says, intercity consumption should be between 5 and 6lt of gasoline for a "normal" engine. City consumption and cold start times are sketchy because of the presence of the LPG system.

I have found a local ''car guy'' (many year ago had a Favorit) with many cars (from small N/A to turbo) in experience and told me some things which i translate them best as i can:

 

''Most 1.6 in the city of Athens with heavy traffic exceed 14 liters (checked with Primera, Focus, Renault).
 A Skoda Fabia brand new 1.2 MPI that I had in 2008-2010, mixed route with 150 km per day of which 20-30 in heavy traffic never happened and for no reason below 9 liters.
 If I get a move from the borders of Athens (Attica) to Athens (near Christmas period with traffic) i had 11 litre in gas pum station.
 Even this one which has "modern" and a three-cylinder engine tαrgeting the low fuel consumption, if it worked as a taxi in Athens (heavy traffic) the 13 litre would have had it for sure''.

 

After all these i don't feel so bad as i use to be. 

19 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Another user says, intercity consumption should be between 5 and 6lt of gasoline for a "normal" engine

 

I had intercity consumption (30km trips, with few kilometers in low traffic city) of about 5,5-6,5, depending on driving style. If I reset trip computer after warm-up, it could fall to 5, short trips around 10km were up to 7l - these engines are hungry when cold 😀. But all was in ideal conditions - low altitude and flat terrain.

The least I ever got on a long intercity trip (150km) was 5,3. I can believe that city consumption will be twice of that.

36 minutes ago, Papez said:

 

these engines are hungry when cold

The least I ever got on a long intercity trip (150km) was 5,3. I can believe that city consumption will be twice of that.

 

I am starting taking courage.

My average speed in heavy city traffic is about 16 km/hour according to TC-6

Few times the 3rd gear and only for few seconds, mainly 1st-2nd and short trips.

 

 

That's the every day situation inside Athens.

The question still remains:

 

On 23/10/2022 at 18:58, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Since the incoming air to the MAP-Throttle is different in those 3 cases WHY the Cold Start is almost identical?

 

So the way-quantity of the incoming air does not affect the Cold Start so much?

 

Maybe the Lubrication? A different brand engine oil in different viscosity than the 10W-40 may do some improvement?

It's just a different map based on iat and ect

12 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

It's just a different map based on iat and ect

 

The MAP sensor is the same in those 3 cases.

I can't understand that with 3 occasions  (in one experiment i had No filter at all ) the ECU does not understand the difference and the Cold start is the same.

I will make another test with a new oil viscosity now that the Winter is coming.

It's just a different map based on iat and ect

I mean FUEL MAP and cold start procedure based on intake air temperature and engine coolant temperature 

8 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

 based on intake air temperature and engine coolant temperature 

 

Coolant engine temperature was the same.

Air intake temperature was a bit different due to the 2 different filters and in one case no filter at all and i thought that i would had different results.

Same fuel, same coolant, almost same weather and the same 3:40 Cold start time?

Tomorrow i will make another test, i have new engine oil. 😏

After so many tests and the ''rule'' of the 3:40"-3:45" Cold start time still applies even now that i have changed the engine oil with Synthetic 5W-40

Changing gas stations (different brands), changing the air filter (different types) brought no change at all.

 

MPG update:

I made a small trip few weeks ago, few kilometres in City traffic then National Highway and at the end Mountain roads (2 persons with few luggages).

Pass the MOT and after few kilometres in country roads i return as above, Mountain roads (2 persons with few luggages), then National Highway and in the end few kilometres in City traffic.

For 448 Km distance my Felicia asked for 29,43 ltr gasoline which is 6,56ltr / 100Km or 35.855 US Mpg or 43.0611 UK Mpg which was an amazing result for me !

Somewhere in the trip i took a photo from TC-6,

 

 

i am one click better than any result in the past and i beat my previous record. 🤩

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499328-how-much-time-do-you-warm-up-your-felicia/?do=findComment&comment=5681058

I am positive that the next result in a trip (same temperatures) would be one-tiny click better because now the car runs better with the new oil, in previous trip many kilometres where with the old 10W-40 oil.

 

One problem still remains and i don't think that i would find the solution, how to reduce the Cold Start time because the Winter approaching and that together with short distances in City Traffic means worst Mpg.

 

Here is the photo from the 6,5 ltr ''record'' for me (Mixed road conditions).

 

 

I couldn't be more happy !

Not all 10w-40 oils are equal, not all 5w-40 oils are equal, not all 0w-40 oils are equal.

 

Synthetic is often more of a marketing term that true description.

 

But 5w and 0w take more to achieve than 10w so using a good quality 0w-40 suitable to your car (or your believes) might help more with cold running and cold starting and the 40 side of such an oil should deal better with the hot running and hot weather conditions better too as generally 0w-40 oils would generally be made better.

 

If I remember correctly Mannol is a favourite of yours - MANNOL Legend + Ester 0W-40 - "Designed for gasoline and diesel engines (with and without turbocharging) a wide fleet of cars (cars, light SUVs, minibuses and light trucks of European and other manufacturers), where the performance level of API SN / CH-4 and lower, as well as ACEA A3/B4." - https://www.mannol.de/products/motor-oils-for-cars-and-transporters/synthetic-engine-oils/mannol-legend-ester-0w-40

 

Cheap prices too, but obviously you would want to check with Mannol that the oil is fully suitable for your car as you need to at least double check anything you see on the internet/forums.

 

10 hours ago, nta16 said:

If I remember correctly Mannol is a favourite of yours

 

No, i have never use Mannol engine oil, in the past only one time i have use Motul Ester oil, i thing was 300V Chrono 10W40 but i wasn't happy with the ''kar-kar-kar'' rattle noise from the engine and i stopped using it.

 

 

10 hours ago, nta16 said:

Ester

 

https://www.cn-lubricantadditive.com/industry-information/it-is-said-that-ester-fully-synthetic-motor-oil-is-good-but-what-is-the-advantage-43697.html

 

Disadvantages of synthetic ester oil

The biggest disadvantage of ester oils is their hydrolytic stability and material compatibility. Because of the polar group, ester oil is easy to absorb moisture (remember to tighten the cap when you use the rest). The stability of polyester to pure water is not bad, and it is unstable in acid and alkali environment. Since the engine oil contains many additives containing phosphorus and sulfur, and there will be fine metal particles worn down during the working process, the additives will produce acidic substances under the metal catalysis, which further catalyzes the hydrolysis of the ester. Ester will obviously swell rubber products of certain structures, which is also one of its disadvantages. However, these disadvantages are alleviated by appropriate modifying additives.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, nta16 said:

using a good quality 0w-40 suitable to your car (or your believes) might help more with cold running and cold starting

 

0W-40 in a 23 years old engine of a Felicia?

 

Quote

Ester synthetics have a higher degree of solvency than Group II, III or PAO base oils. This means they will dissolve additives and deposits more readily and may cause some seals to swell slightly. They also can remove some paints.''

 

12 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

No, i have never use Mannol engine oil

My mistake, it was the other chap who had his dad's old car then.

 

13 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

However, these disadvantages are alleviated by appropriate modifying additives.

And in the case of this particular oil it says "Universal bi-synthetic (PAO + esters)"

 

16 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

0W-40 in a 23 years old engine of a Felicia?

Your engine may be 23 years old but the design I would guess basically goes back a lot further so that's why I put to check with Mannol.  Did/does VW Skoda even specify 5w-40 oil.

 

You could try a better quality 5w-40 or better a quality 10w-40 or perhaps a better quality 15w-50 for the hot traffic in hot weather and as it does not get that cold where you are (or better quality 5w-40, 5w-50, 10w-50) or accept what you use is as good as it gets for you, as always you will decide.

 

Good luck, I am sure you will research until you eventually find what you want and suits.  👍

 

7 hours ago, nta16 said:

You could try a better quality 5w-40 or better a quality 10w-40 or perhaps a better quality 15w-50 for the hot traffic in hot weather and as it does not get that cold where you are (or better quality 5w-40, 5w-50, 10w-50)

 

There is a discussion about this here

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/129452-felicia-combi-13-what-oil/?do=findComment&comment=5782808

plus some comments below.

 

The 3:40-3:45'' Cold Start time still remains after so many changes (air filters, engine oil, new sensors etc)