Speaking with the dealers it seems most have a deal with podpoint and BP Pulse for home charging points.

Both offer 7kW 1Ph and 22kW 3Ph options.

At present Podpoint is about £50 cheaper, but BP pulse offer free use of chargers and membership charging rates for 2 years from date of installation. (eg £50 gets you 2 years of cheaper charging rates, and maybe maybe some free slower chargers).

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on which of these companies are best (or any other companies) and if there are any advantages of using the suppliers that the manufacturers have arrangements with or otherwise?

 

General background of plans are below, so then it's a case of if any of the providers work better/worse or have issues with any of the below.
 

Hoping to have a decision on 1/3Ph shortly (if I ever get a quote), so then it's just a case of working out who.

I've been pricing up a solar array (probably without batteries at least initially) and we can get a maximum of a 5.5-6kWp array on an east/west split.

Not getting a battery just yet as I'm guessing the car can soak up anything we don't use from the solar and the rest can go to hot water.
Once we've got a year of real use, maybe add a battery of the appropriate size.

Personally I would not go for either of them.  

Reading on other forums, BP pulse chargers are a pain to get fitted as their customer service is poor. The 2 Yr membership rates for their fast chargers is a plus, but how often would you use them? There are 2 near me and there are already queues. Again on the forums the forecourt chargers don't have a good reputation either.

The podpoint is a bit bulky and basic. The key to lock out the power is a good idea, but it's nothing special. As it doesn't have built in earth fault protection, you might need an earth spike installed.

 

They are cheapish, and when fitted they do what you want of them, but there are many other options avaliable at different price points including the zappi, EO, easee, hypervolt, Andersen and more.

Some will also connect to solar, and also have active load management so it adjust charge rate according to the load thebrest of the house is taking.

Look at those as well before commiting to one.

 

 

The connect to solar and active load management might be needed.

Finally got a price for three phase, which on the face of it is very reasoanble.
Next hurdle is oh no we don't do three phase smart meters currently, so you can't have a car tarrif

Debating wether to just pay the capped rate and wait until three phase smart meters happen or just give up, stay single phaase and risk problems in a couple of years when the boiler is replaced with a heat pump.


 

5 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Speaking with the dealers it seems most have a deal with podpoint and BP Pulse for home charging points.

Both offer 7kW 1Ph and 22kW 3Ph options.

At present Podpoint is about £50 cheaper, but BP pulse offer free use of chargers and membership charging rates for 2 years from date of installation. (eg £50 gets you 2 years of cheaper charging rates, and maybe maybe some free slower chargers).

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on which of these companies are best (or any other companies) and if there are any advantages of using the suppliers that the manufacturers have arrangements with or otherwise?

 

General background of plans are below, so then it's a case of if any of the providers work better/worse or have issues with any of the below.
 

Hoping to have a decision on 1/3Ph shortly (if I ever get a quote), so then it's just a case of working out who.

I've been pricing up a solar array (probably without batteries at least initially) and we can get a maximum of a 5.5-6kWp array on an east/west split.

Not getting a battery just yet as I'm guessing the car can soak up anything we don't use from the solar and the rest can go to hot water.
Once we've got a year of real use, maybe add a battery of the appropriate size.

 

I got the Pod Point and it seems OK quality. Did a few photos and form filling and they did the OLEG so it just cost me £449 as I went for the cheaper 3.6 kwh charger.

 

Linked with Octopus Go it puts in 14 kWh ie about 60 miles of range for the Zoe.  As it gets colder I will use the pre-conditioning a few minutes before I leave just to warm it up and give the battery a top up.

 

I can see buying another charger when I go for something bigger like the Megane so will evaluate having a second EV charger and another OLEG grant and that one will probably be 7 kwh.

 

The Rolec ones seem a bit flimsy and I manage to snap one of their posts almost in half when it would not give me back my 22 kw 3 phase lead and in a tug of war the post lost.

 

I am looking at a home battery pack but do not intend to go down solar route and just want to store the cheap nuclear plant energy for use during the day and for blackouts.   

 

5 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Not getting a battery just yet as I'm guessing the car can soak up anything we don't use from the solar and the rest can go to hot water.

For the car to soak up any excess solar, you'll need 2 things:

- Excess to be greater than around ~1.6kW (Zappi minimum, something to do with EV onboard charger needing a minimum current)

- A charger that is capable of automatically starting and stopping charge.

- Ideally, the charger will also vary charge rate depend on your excess, tracking solar production.

 

The popular charger that does this today is Zappi. The geek choice is OpenEVSE, where it integrates with OpenEnergyMonitor and Home Assistant (energy monitoring and home automation of my choice). There is probably others I'm not aware of.

 

 

BT Pulse vs Podpoint are much of a muchness, they can't automatically divert from solar excess. Go with one that fits your surrounding aesthetics.

I've got a Podpoint and doesn't have any issue with it. I got it in 2017 for a grand total of £99. 3.6kW was free with £500 from OLEV and rest from Nissan. I paid for upgrade to 7kW to be more future proof, despite my EV can only take 3.3kW.

Having a dig a zappi seems a reasonably clever device, especially if coupled with other items from the range.

 

Does anyone know which, if any, if the smart chargers can pause/lower the charge rate to keep the house below 100 amps total?

 

 

For anyone who likes to see the ins and outs of things.

2 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Does anyone know which, if any, if the smart chargers can pause/lower the charge rate to keep the house below 100 amps total?

I know recent Podpoints will monitor house consumption and lower charge rate to keep house consumption low. 

I'm sure smarter chargers like Zappi and openEVSE will also do this, because in order to monitor solar excess, it also needs to monitor house consumption. 

I think I’ve resolved a suitable charger purchased direct from an installer rather than tying myself to a companies product.

 

Still on the fence on 1 vs 3 phase, partly on speed but also that you can put a lot more in during a discounted charging at 11/22kW.

 

- 44-88kWh vs 28 in during a 4 hour @ 5p

- 55-110kWh vs 33 in during a 5 hour @ 5.5p

 

Question of course, is will I actually use more than 33 with any regularity. Yes then worth it, no then not.

 

Does anyone use solar to charge up the cars as obviously if it’s viable, then money is best spent on more battery capacity. I imagine we wouldn’t get more than 5.5-6kWp of panels on the roof, so that’s a bit 50:50 too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have 2.9 kWp W-E split, usually during sunny summer's day, we get just over 1kW of excess power. So no, I can never charge my car via solar due to minimum charge rate I mentioned earlier. 

Get assessment on what sort of solar production you'll get throughout the year. If you can get over 2 kW excess a good chunk of the year, then it's definitely worth going for a smart charger. 

 

30 kWh = 90 miles. Do you often drive over 100 miles, more than 2 days back to back? 

If you drive 150 miles 1 day, but usually only drive 60 miles daily. The extra miles driven (60) will be recharged over the next 2 days. 

Most cars seen to charge at 11kW on three phase power. Not so many will take 22kW (Zoe is a notable exception) so the advantage to 3-phase is limited. 30kWh is around 50% of your battery in most long range EVs as these tend to be 60-80kWh batteries. So unless the difference in price between between a single phase and 3-phase charger is minimal, its probably not worth the extra expense. The exception would be if you are a high mileage driver I think, when you will be filling the battery daily. In my experience, 7kW home charger is quite sufficient, but I do not have a low tariff to squeeze maximum benefit from.

 

EDIT: EG last night I charged from 50% to 80% in 3 hours 20 minutes. 77kWh battery (useable). This added 87 miles of range in the current conditions, in summer this would have been 97.

 

Edited 22 November, 20214 yr by Luckypants

This is the difficult bit, as COVID has totally skewed the numbers.

Would I drive more than 100 miles a day back to back,  yes very regularly in the past, however now probably less, but when I do drive it tends to be a long drive then another long drive for a few days back to back. Clearly I'm going to need to think hard about how often this will happen and see what DC chargers are available locally, as £20 for a 10-80% after a long journey, then up to 100 overnight can also work. If it's only occasional it's a chaper option, if it's regular it gets very expensive very quick.

Cost wide for the three phase connection and small additional charger cost, then you're looking at pay back in 3 years on just the extra power into the car in a 5 hour window, if you need it often enough.

 

Thanks for the reminder on the solar excess too. We're now looking at the viabilities of the batteries of various sizes, to perhaps store some of the excess if it's not enough and then charge from the batteries.  Another option vs 3 phase is to charge up a larger battery from solar during the day, top it up from cheap rate at night whilst charging the car, than adding that to the car if you need it outside of cheap rate, but before the sun comes up.

 

It's amazing how complicate this all becomes when you start to (over) think about the options.

Alerts are pinging on my phone about the change to home charger grants in the new year. I will see what they have done later when I can read them.  Maybe someone could put up a link to a Government site or the details. 

12 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Alerts are pinging on my phone about the change to home charger grants in the new year. I will see what they have done later when I can read them.  Maybe someone could put up a link to a Government site or the details. 

From The Grauniad:

"The Electric Vehicle Homecharge Scheme is an official grant that provides a 75% contribution – up to a maximum of £350 – towards the cost of a charging point and its installation. The main requirements are that the applicant owns, leases or has ordered a qualifying vehicle and has appropriate off-street parking.

From April 2022, the scheme will no longer be open to homeowners living in “single-unit properties” – in other words, detached, semi-detached and terrace houses and bungalows, so the charging point will need to be installed by 31 March and probably booked by February.

However, the scheme will remain open to homeowners who live in flats, and people in rented accommodation.

The cost of installing a home charging point varies, depending on the type you go for, although quotes typically come in at between £500 and £1,000."

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/dec/18/electric-cars-deadline-nears-to-claim-home-charging-grant

My parents are moving in to somewhere 20 miles from us. (much closer than 150 miles)

I guess there's no grant options for them to install a charger without any EV purchases? I've already used my EV purchase ~4 years ago to install charger at my home.

23 hours ago, MikeTheThinker said:

However, the scheme will remain open to homeowners who live in flats, and people in rented accommodation.

Will it still be open to people living in a shared ownership i.e. part owned, part rented property?

If so then the Chancellor will not be slow in stopping that if people dare to claim the Grant.    Grant Shapps MP might like to make an appearance to tell the public how the government are fully behind the take up of Electric cars.   Especially behind business,s with no proven record of anything getting millions to develope tech not relevant to the vehicles on the road now or in production. 

It's funny, because without the grants/cheap charging, the electric car doesn't add up .

 

It's 25p /kWh at home, 8p/30p on the discounted tarrif.
Add in the very high cost of leasing such a vehicle and that's the "fuel" savings more than offset.

Then get rid of the grants and add in having to pay for the charger etc.

Of course to make any sense with current electric prices you need solar, but the VAT on those is 20% not 5% for most installs.

 

Basically we're going to say the buzzwords, but do nothing to get it done.

 

 

Well I don't entirely agree. At 23p / kWh my ID.4 is costing roughly the same as my previous Karoq 2.0TDi. This is helped by free charging at supermarkets, but only 10kWh most weeks. If comparing apples to apples in this class of car, the costs are similar. However, smaller EVs that should be cheaper are not, so a petrol car makes more sense financially. 

I just switched from Bulb E7 13p/kWh during 0:30-7:30, 24.3p/kWh other times, to Bulb EV tariff 5.7p/kWh 2-6am, 25.5p/kWh other times.

 

Reprogrammed the charge timers, re-programmed home appliance timers. We usually use over 60% on E7, if we can stay above 50% for 4 hour period, it'll bring down overall cost massively. 4 hours is enough to charge vast majority of Leaf's tiny battery despite only having 3kW charger. I looked closely, from 18% to 100%, it charged at max rate for just under 4 hours before dropping to do last % and cell balancing, probably 2-3kWh outside of cheap window if I charge up to 100% from under 20%. But with 12p/kWh charging now available at work, it is rare to go down this low.

 

Yes, without cheap charging EV doesn't add up. But why would you stay on existing tariff when there are better and more suitable time-of-use ones available?

Are there any Providers with good tariffs for off peak / EV charging that you can join now it they are not who you are currently with?

 

I have not charged or pre heated at home this Winter so far other then for 1 hour so that was less than 3 kWh.

This month i have had 600 plus miles using PodPoint for under £13 on the 50 kW charging and the rest from free 7 kW charging.

Then another 600 miles on free charging with CPS.

Also i paid BP Pulse £8.50 for 2 charge sessions.

Edited 24 January, 20224 yr by roottoot

11 hours ago, wyx087 said:

But why would you stay on existing tariff when there are better and more suitable time-of-use ones available?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, not able to get a working smart meter in rural North Wales. My MP is trying (and failing) to get help / sense from the ministry that says 99.5% of UK covered.....

13 hours ago, roottoot said:

Are there any Providers with good tariffs for off peak / EV charging that you can join now it they are not who you are currently with?

 

 

This...

 

The Octopus tarrif for EV is now 7.5p/30p when I looked and no providers will take customers that are not aready with them.

That is the problem for "cheap" charging.

 

 

13 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I just switched from Bulb E7 13p/kWh during 0:30-7:30, 24.3p/kWh other times, to Bulb EV tariff 5.7p/kWh 2-6am, 25.5p/kWh other times.

 

Reprogrammed the charge timers, re-programmed home appliance timers. We usually use over 60% on E7, if we can stay above 50% for 4 hour period, it'll bring down overall cost massively. 4 hours is enough to charge vast majority of Leaf's tiny battery despite only having 3kW charger. I looked closely, from 18% to 100%, it charged at max rate for just under 4 hours before dropping to do last % and cell balancing, probably 2-3kWh outside of cheap window if I charge up to 100% from under 20%. But with 12p/kWh charging now available at work, it is rare to go down this low.

 

Yes, without cheap charging EV doesn't add up. But why would you stay on existing tariff when there are better and more suitable time-of-use ones available?

 

Bulb almost went pop and if they had you'd have been singing from a very different sheet.

As has been pointed out, smart meters not available/working and having to be put in dumb mode so it doesn't turn off supply.

Not being with a heavily discounted supplier and the one you are with offering ok, but not great rates. People are not taking on new customers for these tarrifs from other suppliers as they don't want the expense.

 

Just like heat pumps for heating, sure the pump isn't too expensive (with a grant), but the extra investment needed to make it work efficiently (so cheaper than gas  - even at todays rates) requires an additional investment.

 

Fundamentally the tech is there, but it's too expensive and the government wants individuals to pay for it themselves, whilst talking green taxes up the wazoo.

 

Spend some road tax (I know it's not that any more) investing in chargers, grants for home chargers etc.
Look at EV and perhaps create the zero tax band for only EV with a certain efficiency per kWh, a low tax band for those that are efficient but heavy and a higher band for those that weigh over 2 tonne / are not efficient.

 

 

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Just like heat pumps for heating, sure the pump isn't too expensive (with a grant), but the extra investment needed to make it work efficiently (so cheaper than gas  - even at todays rates) requires an additional investment.

That's the problem. All of today's finance is worked out based on a zero levy paid against the environmental damage done by fossil fuel.

So at a personal level, there's no reason for me to get heat pump when it's cheaper and easier to continue burn natural gas for home heating.

The energy market is fundamentally broken with regard to the environmental targets but no one is able to or willing do anything about it.

 

I do understand my particular deal with Bulb is difficult to find nowadays. I was planning to switch to Octopus around now for the Go tariff if the market haven't imploded. I hear the Octopus Go tariff is now 7.5p for cheap periods (from speakev forums), which still isn't too bad.

 

Of course, smart meter is required...