Haha, okay. Let's break this down.

 

You are saying I need to provide source for my feelings, but you don't need to provide source for your claimed facts/truth!?

The source for my feeling is the quote directly above it, and a very simple thing call multiplication: vast majority of scientists * "reward if you do toe the line " (your words)

"in fact"  -  "Also, in point of fact. In reality, in truth; actually. "   https://www.dictionary.com/browse/in--fact

 

 

1 hour ago, EnterName said:

Please don't strawman me. This is what I said.

 

The fact is people HAVE lost access to their bank accounts if they failed to toe a particular line. Have I got a specific example of a climate scientist who lost access to his bank account? No. If that's a win for you, revel in it.

However here's an example of scientific defenestration.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/james-watson-scientist-honors-stripped-reprehensible-race-comments

 

Here's another, less significant one.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/richard-dawkins-trans-humanist-aha-b1835017.html

Where in the 2 source article have they said that they lost access to their bank accounts?

First is "revoking all titles and honors". Second is "stripped of ‘humanist of the year’ title". None is related to bank accounts that support your claimed facts.

I am not trying to strawman you, I'm just pointing out that your claimed facts are false, but I'm happy to be corrected when provided with sufficient source.

 

 

1 hour ago, EnterName said:

I'm just telling you you don't seem to know any poor people. ....... there are people in the UK in 2023 who would need to pay a £500 bill in instalments is beyond your understanding. That's on you, not me.

This is true. I never thought people needing to pay £500 in instalments. I recently bought a £400 Steam Deck and that's within my disposable income.

But cars are assets, in the process to get rid of non-compliant vehicle, one will gain some liquidity towards buying the replacement asset.

I sold my non-compliant 2013 diesel by doing a bit of legwork and finding a dealer outside Greater London. Got a reasonable price for it. My point is, the money I got is entirely possible to buy a similar condition compliant petrol.

 

 

1 hour ago, EnterName said:

Please cite the two "facts" I made claims about.

1. "In fact I'd say it's easier to control them now, as there's more money to buy them off and public defenestration is a common occurrence for people failing to adhere with the current narrative. "
2. "In fact, you can even lose access to banking services, if you fail to toe the line. That's quite an incentive to say what should be said, and not say what must not be said. "

Still no sources for either of those very bold claims.

 

1 hour ago, EnterName said:

What are you referring to with this statement?

The data sources are solid, but the 0.000016% number is meaningless without context or trends. Which is problematic when using that out-of-context number in order to make your point.

 

You're all missing the point. EVs are much better to drive. Fossil cars are so rough and agricultural in comparison. I drove a brand new petrol Skoda recently - it was horribe compared with my Enyaq, felt like I was driving an old tractor. 🤨

On 04/06/2023 at 19:09, toot said:

@lol-loli now only accelerate like cars around me if just out driving a city car with a passenger, & will only be getting a new car leasing from Motability. & a small comfy fuel sipper.  I will see what is available from the next quarter starting in July.   So only from dealers near me and certainly not an Arnold Clark Dealership.  So that is Kia, Ford, Renault or Toyota.  All friendly and helpful and within 10 miles of me and not likely to close down in the next 3 years.  Disabled class vehicles are fine for taking into LEZ,s so not in any rush really to get another car.

 

After all said above my lad is buying a Clio ETECH techno spec from our local dealer that I bought my Arkana and Zoe from.

Also after my misgivings about getting a car with the hybrid system with such as small ie 1.2 kwh battery and a 95 hp naturally aspirated 1.6 litre internal combustion engine by all I  can say now, having tried one, it bloody works.

Car feels like an EV round town with the ICE only kicking in very occasionally and then a quite nice rorty worble kicks in, with the ETECH 50 hp or so to give both a healthy kick up the pants leaving the low speed restrictions.  We will take 70 mpg or so and with a CO2 of some 93 grams per kilometer it is a bit below the EU level of 96 gm per km and we will still use the Zoe for some short journeys and the CLio etech for medium length journeys and the Arkana for the long motorway journeys.   Less miles in the Zoe in deep winter when fossil fuel cars seem to make more sense due to EV cold weather range and "spare" heat in the ICE cars.  Between lad and me we will be doing around 36k miles across the cars so balancing that for the PCPs is the art.

A good video below of how it felt.......

Expect the Clio, Arkana, Captur will all go for the 1 or 1.2 litre tce engine to match with the etech system next year.  With Ryan Reynolds investing a couple of hundred million in Alpine maybe there is hope for at least one European HQ car company in the Chinese/TESLA onslaught.     

 

Edited 1 August, 20232 yr by lol-lol

Just now using the 3 pin charger at home is costing me 30 pence a kWh,   that is 30 kWh for £9.

At the chargers i use most on a trip it is 35 pence a kWh, £10.50. 

My local council chargers are 42 pence a kWh, £12,60.

 

If getting 3.5 miles per kWh then x 30 that is 105 miles.   

 

  With petrol at £6.30 a gallon then the Clio e-Tech is cheaper to run than charging @ 42 pence a kWh.

Even if getting 4 miles per kWh that is 120 miles for £12.60 and around the same as running the Clio.

 

Rishi Sunak was in Aberdeenshire yesterday where the Council chargers are 47 pence a kWh for Rapid (50kW) and where if you have to use the public chargers then running an ICE makes more financial sense for private individuals. Not for Business users though. 

Also the charging infrastructure is total crap up in Aberdeenshire & in Aberdeen. 

Edited 1 August, 20232 yr by toot

Supposing (it isn’t going to happen) that every car, van and hgv in the UK was an ev and all the railways were electric and the power was all from nuclear and renewables. What meaningful difference would it make to global warming ? We are a very small slice of the cake. The USA is off the scale compared to us for numbers of vehicles. So are Asia, South America, Russia. Right now huge volumes of our used HGV tractor units, and certain useful smaller vehicles ready for scrap here, get exported to countries that keep them running for years. I guarantee that the dpf’s and ad blue systems will be removed.

What about all the worlds agricultural vehicles and aircraft and ships.

Parts of the USA are literally on fire and they are still only moving slowly on ev adoption. They have mass shootings on a regular basis and still (as a country ) won’t change gun control. They love fossil cars way more than guns…

Even if the Green Party was in power here and transformed the entire infrastructure I don’t think it would move the dial much on global warming.

 

'supposedly' there are right wing MP,s trying to make sure that new petrol and diesel vehicles do not stop getting sold in the UK in 2030.  Supposedly there is reasons for them taking that stance.    That if about the vehicles in the UK on UK roads or being taken out of the UK on journeys.  Light and heavy good vehicles and trains, boats and planes are a whole different matter.    The globe is a very big thing.  Outside your home is very much about your location in the UK.  Outside or inside their home is for lots of people are what affects them. 

1 hour ago, classic said:

Supposing (it isn’t going to happen) that every car, van and hgv in the UK was an ev and all the railways were electric and the power was all from nuclear and renewables. What meaningful difference would it make to global warming ? We are a very small slice of the cake. The USA is off the scale compared to us for numbers of vehicles. So are Asia, South America, Russia. Right now huge volumes of our used HGV tractor units, and certain useful smaller vehicles ready for scrap here, get exported to countries that keep them running for years. I guarantee that the dpf’s and ad blue systems will be removed.

What about all the worlds agricultural vehicles and aircraft and ships.

Parts of the USA are literally on fire and they are still only moving slowly on ev adoption. They have mass shootings on a regular basis and still (as a country ) won’t change gun control. They love fossil cars way more than guns…

Even if the Green Party was in power here and transformed the entire infrastructure I don’t think it would move the dial much on global warming.

 

 

China is by far the most important country in the world and it is looking like they have peaked in CO2 output.  As they do not have their own oil and gas they are rapidly deploying solar and wind farms.  They use coal a lot but such is the rollout of solar and wind, and battery storage, coal will not be needed so much towards the end of this decade.  

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/12/economy/china-carbon-emissions-record-intl-hnk/index.html

 

China is also making electric cars that are now cheaper to buy and run over their life time, such as the MG4 and Maxis vans, that more and more people and companies over the world are running EVs rather than ICE vehicles.

 

The Biden-Harris $20B projects are reducing use of hydrogcarbons massively  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/07/14/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-launches-historic-20-billion-competition-to-catalyze-investment-in-clean-energy-projects-and-tackle-the-climate-crisis/.

 

Australia is under going a massive change for coal power stations to renewable which means half priced electricity, very nice.....

Price of solar panels and home installed batteries becoming cheaper and cheaper so people can pay even less to the those UK suppliers who fleece their customers.  I am with Octopus and happy with them and my day price should drop from 40p to 30p per kwh but night rate up from 7.5 to 9.5p per kwh, all renewable sourced of course.

North Sea will soon be one huge wind farm making more electricity than Northern Europe can use at sometimes so more storage is being rolled out to with GWh batteries planned for Old Trafford and several other similar plants..... https://www.edie.net/plans-approved-for-worlds-largest-battery-storage-scheme-in-manchester/  .

 

The UK rollout of renewables and energy storage is happening despite the UK government's lack of help as the rollout is a technical and economically better way forward for energy companies as well as individuals.     

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, classic said:

Supposing (it isn’t going to happen) that every car, van and hgv in the UK was an ev and all the railways were electric and the power was all from nuclear and renewables. What meaningful difference would it make to global warming ? We are a very small slice of the cake. The USA is off the scale compared to us for numbers of vehicles. So are Asia, South America, Russia. Right now huge volumes of our used HGV tractor units, and certain useful smaller vehicles ready for scrap here, get exported to countries that keep them running for years. I guarantee that the dpf’s and ad blue systems will be removed.

What about all the worlds agricultural vehicles and aircraft and ships.

Parts of the USA are literally on fire and they are still only moving slowly on ev adoption. They have mass shootings on a regular basis and still (as a country ) won’t change gun control. They love fossil cars way more than guns…

Even if the Green Party was in power here and transformed the entire infrastructure I don’t think it would move the dial much on global warming.

 

I know it feels like UK, being such a small land mass, population and small percentage of global emissions, doing stuff wouldn't matter. 

But if every nation thinks this way, every person don't care what we leave to the next generation, would we see any progress? 

 

Besides, it doesn't matter if UK bans sale of pure ICE in 2030, this is bigger than UK. Here are list of all the nations that have plans to ban different level of hybrid cars in 2020-2040. There is no way for this small nation to continue function if the EV infrastructure doesn't catch up while supply of fossil fuel vehicles dry up. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles#Countries

 

Change is indeed very difficult. but it's not the reason to give up. The more pure EV's on the road and plugged in when parked, the faster we (human) reach climate change goals. EV's pollute less as it ages because electrical grid gets cleaned up, smart charging EV's are a valuable asset to allow higher renewable utilisation. 

I've said this many times, EV batteries are part of renewable solution. Just need to change the mindset of central location refueling. 

2 hours ago, classic said:

I guarantee that the dpf’s and ad blue systems will be removed.

Not really relevant to CO2 emissions and climate change, 'just' particulates and NOx respectively, the human/other animal killers.

15 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Not really relevant to CO2 emissions and climate change, 'just' particulates and NOx respectively, the human/other animal killers.

I guess so, but yet another thing a blind eye is turned to.

Big fleets will state they use modern euro 6 vehicles or EVs whilst the old ones rumble on elsewhere, unseen by our masses.

Edited 1 August, 20232 yr by classic

They will probably be awarded green credits for having "recycled" them, enough to continue using their private jets to travel to corporate jollies and climate change conferences!

2 hours ago, classic said:

Supposing (it isn’t going to happen) that every car, van and hgv in the UK was an ev and all the railways were electric and the power was all from nuclear and renewables. What meaningful difference would it make to global warming ? We are a very small slice of the cake. The USA is off the scale compared to us for numbers of vehicles. So are Asia, South America, Russia. Right now huge volumes of our used HGV tractor units, and certain useful smaller vehicles ready for scrap here, get exported to countries that keep them running for years. I guarantee that the dpf’s and ad blue systems will be removed.

What about all the worlds agricultural vehicles and aircraft and ships.

Parts of the USA are literally on fire and they are still only moving slowly on ev adoption. They have mass shootings on a regular basis and still (as a country ) won’t change gun control. They love fossil cars way more than guns…

Even if the Green Party was in power here and transformed the entire infrastructure I don’t think it would move the dial much on global warming.

 

 

The UK is also at a disadvantage adopting EVs, especially the cheap models mainland Europe has ben getting and we have not because we need Right Hand Drive cars.

At the cheap end we have not been getting the Dacia Spring which has been a huge hit in mainland Europe and in the middle to upper range of EVs we do not get any more TESLA Model Ss or model Xs as they are currently only making in LHD.  We will have to wait to India or the like to start wanting to buy RHD cars as they are forth biggest buyers of cars in the world, UK is 8th with way less than half what India buys but not such a high percentage of EVs, yet.

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.html

 

China is so far ahead in sales and manufacture, same in power generation and just about every other metric, it almost does not matter what anybody else does but India is adopting much stricter pollution regs as their life shortening pollution is even worse than London's in cities like Mumbai, New Delhi and Kolkuta which are bigger than London but have even dirtier vehicles, particularly from two and three wheel vehicles. 

 

I really don't think that switching to EV's is all it's been cracked up to be and I really cannot help but think that we are all being sold yet another pup just diesel. It was the supposed to be the wonder fuel and we were urged to switch from petrol/gasoline over to it and now it seems its bad and dirty.

 

The air quality in the UK is very clean, as can be seen by playing around with the interactive live map on this site,  Air Pollution in World: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map (aqicn.org)

 

This is video is also worth watching. 

 

 

The air quality is very clean where it is very clean, not where it is not.  Head for thinking feet for dancing and nose and mouth for breathing.

The UK is an island nation / nations, the air should be clean. It should stay clean.

http://scottishairquality.scot

http://scottishairquality.scot/latest

Scotland.

http://tfn.scot/lists/the-most-polluted-streets-in-scotland

 

 

Re EV fires,

Just last Friday my cousin was telling me that an A&E nurse she was talking to was on about the horrific injuries and deaths from accidents involving EV,s.

 

I asked, where and when these accidents were happening and why is there no media coverage on them.

My cousin seems to want to believe the nurse more than me checking the social media and global media. 

 

What i do know is how many Stagecoach busses have been catching fire in Scotland and elsewhere around the UK.  (use a search engine  'Stagecoach bus fires'

It looks like no deaths of life changing injuries luckily.

Edited 1 August, 20232 yr by toot

45 minutes ago, toot said:

The air quality is very clean where it is very clean, not where it is not.  Head for thinking feet for dancing and nose and moth for breathing.

Scotland.

http://tfn.scot/lists/the-most-polluted-streets-in-scotland

 

 

Re EV fires,

Just last Friday my cousin was telling me that an A&E nurse she was talking to was on about the horrific injuries and deaths from accidents involving EV,s.

 

I asked, where and when these accidents were happening and why is there no media coverage on them.

My cousin seems to want to believe the nurse more than me checking the social media and global media. 

 

What i do know is how many Stagecoach busses have been catching fire in Scotland and elsewhere around the UK.  (use a search engine  'Stagecoach bus fires'

It looks like no deaths of life changing injuries luckily.

Interesting, seems to be a bit of politics at play there, here is a print screen of Glasgow done just a few minutes ago, and you can clearly see the air is excellent and safe. I did a bit of checking on some the worst spots in London by drilling down into the data on the AQI map, zoom in really close, and it will show where air monitoring equipment is located. By doing this and then using Google Earth street view it is possible to see some of the reasons for some of the higher readings and in London, it is not the tailpipe emissions at all to blame. The equipment has in many locations been located by subway entrances/exits, next to underground stations entrance/exits and also where the intake vents for the equipment is adjacent to the kitchen windows of catering establishments or right in the middle of quite housing estates. This suggests that the biggest culprit for bad air quality is the burning of gas for heating/cooking, as it has been shown that far higher readings of bad air are obtained in the average house than the air outside. Also, the air on the London Underground system is appalling, and yet they still want people to use the tube rather than drive.
 

 

 

Edited 1 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

Glasgow has a low emission zone now in the city centre and no paying £12.50 to take in the most polluting vehicles in (WTF! is that kidology?)

just a £60 fine if you take in ones that should not be there, reduced to £30 if paid in 14 days.

Nearly 3,000 fines issued in the first month.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-65935598

 

 

Just a few yards from the Low emissions zone is this.

 

 

 

Edited 1 August, 20232 yr by toot

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

This suggests that the biggest culprit for bad air quality is the burning of gas for heating/cooking, as it has been shown that far higher readings of bad air are obtained in the average house than the air outside. Also, the air on the London Underground system is appalling, and yet they still want people to use the tube rather than drive.

We are on the way to stop installing gas boilers in place of much more efficient heat pumps.

 

The air in London underground system is indeed appalling. But at the same time, there's no alternative to a mass transit system to move this amount of people in such a compacted city. Personal transport is never sustainable in the city.

At very least, the poor air quality in the tubes are by personal choice. I can choose not to take my young children. Whereas I have no say to non-ULEZ compliant cars outside my neighbourhood...... until ULEZ expansion.

 

The EV transition is less about local air pollution, more about reducing our (human) impact on the climate by enabling us to transition to sustainable renewable energy sources.

 

 

 

Regarding the transport ship fire. Let's remember the stats and source of problem:

Quote

While all logistics companies deal with the risk of EV lithium-ion batteries burning with twice the energy of a normal fire, the maritime industry hasn't kept up with the developing technology and how it creates greater risk, maritime officials and insurers said.

There were 209 ship fires reported during 2022, the highest number in a decade and 17% more than in 2021, according to a report from insurer Allianz Global Corporate & Specialty (AGCS) (ALVG.DE). Of that total, 13 occurred on car carriers, but how many involved EVs was not available.

There were 3,783 new cars on board, including 498 electric battery vehicles, a spokesperson of ship chartering company "K" Line said on Friday. Initial reports had put the number of electric vehicles at just 25.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ocean-shippers-playing-catch-up-electric-vehicle-fire-risk-2023-07-27/

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Interesting, seems to be a bit of politics at play there, here is a print screen of Glasgow done just a few minutes ago, and you can clearly see the air is excellent and safe. I did a bit of checking on some the worst spots in London by drilling down into the data on the AQI map, zoom in really close, and it will show where air monitoring equipment is located. By doing this and then using Google Earth street view it is possible to see some of the reasons for some of the higher readings and in London, it is not the tailpipe emissions at all to blame. The equipment has in many locations been located by subway entrances/exits, next to underground stations entrance/exits and also where the intake vents for the equipment is adjacent to the kitchen windows of catering establishments or right in the middle of quite housing estates. This suggests that the biggest culprit for bad air quality is the burning of gas for heating/cooking, as it has been shown that far higher readings of bad air are obtained in the average house than the air outside. Also, the air on the London Underground system is appalling, and yet they still want people to use the tube rather than drive.

 

It only takes the wind to stop blowing for an hour or a few hours and the air quality will plummet from the ICE traffic.  If the traffic is predominately pure EV or good hybrid then air quality should be much better but the tackling of domestic and industrial pollution are problems that also need addressing and as road transport ie cars, delivery vans and even motorbikes move over to electric power then those domestic and industrial sources of pollution which be relatively worse.

 

I occasional work with Transport for London and they are moving to cleaner vehicles buses, trains etc but it is taking a long time and with central government being so hugely in debt ie 100% of GDP, paying £200B in interest because the did not fix the roof before BREXIT they are in deep do-do financial hence nearly all aspects of government spending up the creek, not only the green agenda but social care, prison building, asylum processing, probably only military spending looks to be on the up in real terms.

 

Glad I do not live in London or anywhere in the SE of England, interesting I see the slow down signs on the motorway due to the pollution in South Yorkshire ie slow down to 60 mph due to air quality.  Bit unfair when I am driving an EV or a hybrid in EV mode and not adding to the pollution.

 

I thought the Tube was electric and the overland trains diesel, is that not the case ?   Sooner more of that goes over to electric the better for the 40k cases a year of life shortening air pollution, a figure I hope we can bring down quickly of the next few years. 

 

8 hours ago, toot said:

Glasgow has a low emission zone now in the city centre and no paying £12.50 to take in the most polluting vehicles just a £60 fine if you take in ones that should not be there, reduced to £30 if paid in 14 days.

Nearly 3,000 fines issued in the first month.

 

A few hundred yards from the Low emissions zone is this.

 

 

 

Looking at the data it would certainly seem that these clean air zones are indeed more to do with raising revenue than cleaning air which is already considered by WHO as clean and safe.

@Graham Butcher Low Emission Zones where paying £12.50 allows the vehicles the freedom to drive regardless of the emissions that is the money raiser & a p!ss take.

@lol-lol I think you will find if you dig into it a bit more that EV cars might not be the answer either. There can be no denying that our air has become massively cleaner over the years. I can remember in the 70s driving a lorry in London that on many occasions everything just ground to a complete halt, or at best a crawl with engines at idle in 1st gear as the air was so polluted that in places you could not see 3 bus lengths away, and the buses back then were only 27ft (8.2m) long. We have come a long way since then, coal was the fuel of choice for heating and London in those days had loads of industrial estates and heavy industry / foundries all contributing massively.

These days, those factories etc have gone (mostly overseas), industrial estates mostly now have become housing estates or retail parks and gas / electric is now used for heating and engines have grown to be more efficient and far cleaner and now of course we are on Euro 7 class of cleaner engines. Cars these days are also do not emit far less pollution than they used, but also many do massively more miles to gallon. Back then I had a 1.2L Ford Cortina which did in the low 20s to the gallon and now I have 2L Superb in which I regularly get over 60 mpg and way lower tailpipe emissions, thats a sign of how far we have come, for example almost a tripling of MPG and more likely a massive 10 times or higher less  emissions to boot.

 

In fact in 1952 London had pea-souper fog that lasted for 5 days and killed at least 4,000 plus people, some estimates say it was more like 12,000. Hmm, maybe that is where the current London Mayor plucked his 4,000 Londoners dying prematurely from air pollution.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

I thought the Tube was electric and the overland trains diesel, is that not the case ? 

It is all electric, at least the many lines I've been on. Problem is particulates from friction and brake dust, in combination with less-than-ideal ventilation.

 

27 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

There can be no denying that our air has become massively cleaner over the years. I can remember in the 70s driving a lorry in London that on many occasions everything just ground to a complete halt, or at best a crawl with engines at idle in 1st gear as the air was so polluted that in places you could not see 3 bus lengths away, and the buses back then were only 27ft (8.2m) long. We have come a long way since then, coal was the fuel of choice for heating and London in those days had loads of industrial estates and heavy industry / foundries all contributing massively.

Just because air is cleaner now, doesn't mean we should stop doing everything we can do make it even cleaner.

 

Got to remember cars are typically in service for 10-15 years. So a Euro 5 car could still be on the road idling next to a nursery in 2030.

46 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

It is all electric, at least the many lines I've been on. Problem is particulates from friction and brake dust, in combination with less-than-ideal ventilation.

 

Just because air is cleaner now, doesn't mean we should stop doing everything we can do make it even cleaner.

 

Got to remember cars are typically in service for 10-15 years. So a Euro 5 car could still be on the road idling next to a nursery in 2030.

Agreed, but given that the World Health Organisation have said that air with a QI index of 50 and lower is good and poses no threat to people being outside and exposed to it. In fact in the average house, levels are often considerably higher as a result of the gas being used for cooking or heating, means that more Londoners and indeed people anywhere, are daily exposed to poorer air quality in their own homes, schools, offices etc, so what is being done about those positions? The motorist is sadly an easy cash cow to help plug some fiscal black holes in both local and national officials growing financial black holes.

 

It is also highly likely also that by 2030, there may be hardly any Euro 5 cars left, as the emission standards will get progressively more draconian and the bad boy by then might Euro 6 or even Euro 7 which already considerably lower tailpipe emissions. One thing that they could do is to ban the larger, more polluting engines like those in the Chelsea Mud Pluggers and high performance/luxury cars. with the ever decreasing speed limits, they make zero sense. 

Edited 1 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

32 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

 

It is also highly likely also that by 2030, there may be hardly any Euro 5 cars left. 

 

 

My mx5 is 28 years old now and Euro 2...   I have no doubt it'll still be around in 2030 albeit probably not doing many miles...