1 minute ago, Luckypants said:

I would say no, given it only makes a difference on longer journeys. The cabin heating circuit uses a PDC heater (basically an immersion heater) to get initial heat into the system and give instant heat just like the non-heat pump model. The magic happens when there is heat in the system to be 'pumped' after the PDC has done it's thing - so on a longer journey the benefits are felt. If you pre-heat the cabin before setting off, then your miles / kWh figures are definitely better than a non-heat pump model, but the initial heating still has to be powered either from the battery or mains, just those kWhs are not reflected in the miles / kWh figure.

 

Another factor is carrying ladies, or children, or thin people, who want the cabin temperature in the low twenties.  my Zoe has a heat pump, as do all Scenics after the debacle of only some Megane etech having them and not getting even close to WLTP in colder weather but I find having a heated set on, fitted or after market, and having the cabin temperature at 18c works fine to me.  Cars struggle to keep the upper part of the cabin warm as the glass part lets the heat out more so now that the body but having acoustic glass, like the Scenic has has a double benefit of sound deadening and heat retention.

 

Preheating good to and when I collected the Scenic 60 kwh tomorrow it will be the first time I have had heated steering wheel and seats since my L&K Octavia Mk 1, luxury.

Heat pumps should be standard especially in places like the Midlands where we get temperature like Northern Scotland ie down to -20 C in some winters.

 

This video has dropped today, and makes many claims, some of which may be true and others? It does mention the Mini Cooper recall which we do know is true, therefore it would be wrong to automatically dismiss the other claims being made as false or clickbait. Lets examine the first claim about the cost of a round trip from London to Penzance and back again, EV (assuming zero home charging and just using fast or DC public chargers along the route costs £148 and a petrol car costs £77. He does not state which EV car or which petrol car, just calls them typical cars, based on the EV doing 3.3 miles/kW and the petrol car doing 43mpg. I have calculated the route as being 650 miles using TomTom route planner and to make it fairer, I took the starting point to be Dagenham in East London to central Penzance and for my car on a trip like that will do about 66mpg, but I worked on it doing 60mpg, and it would cost me just £66 and less that full tank of fuel.

 

I provide all the supporting links to the sites / documents that he refers to in the video, below for your convenience, and to make this absolutely clear, I do so, not to start a war of words etc, I do this for your information only, make of it what you will. 

 

I have an open mind on the subject, some don't or won't accept that, but its true. 

 

 

Running an electric car is twice as expensive as a petrol one (archive.md)

More Brits turn to used petrol cars despite potential fuel rises (msn.com)

(45) Surveillance video shows self-driving Tesla crash on Bay Bridge - YouTube

How government EV sales targets are forcing car makers to use drastic tactics to inflate numbers | This is Money

Shell says goodbye to hydrogen cars - All its gas stations in this state are closing (unionrayo.com)

Owners Warned: "Electric Cars are a Treat for Pests" (dagens.com)

More than 1,400 electric Mini Coopers recalled over major fire risk (thedriven.io)

Sweden will not take stake in battery maker Northvolt, PM Ulf Kristersson says - The Globe and Mail

Edited 21 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

How often do people in London drive to penzance though.

 

The calculation is also based on always charging at a superfast chargers price. You can charge with slower chargers if you have the time.

 

Admittedly people with no home charging at all benefit less from an ev.

 

But i used the zap map site to compare my short daily trip to work with an enyaq compared to my Ford, charging at home with no special rates 24.6p/kwh

 

So the reverse is true for most journeys with an ev over diesel/petrol. Short journeys give better m/kw than mpg with the diesel/petrol which prefers longer trips. 

 

Also when i just checked tthis with zapmap they are still using 120.9ppl for fuel price

 

 

Just bit the bullet and bought an enyaq, collect it tomorrow

@Stonekeeperthe article linked did state it was based on superfast chargers, but my calculation for my car was using £1.37 a litre for diesel, which is the current price. That was I provided all links he used in the video, to prevent the wrong assumptions being made. Using slow chargers will add considerable time onto the journey and often time is limited and was time has gone by, you cannot get it back, so some people just want to refuel as quick as possible and get on with life again.

 

Looking forward to seeing photos of the car when it arrives.  

Edited 21 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Tesla charging or Tesla non Tesla is not double the price of petrol.    Anything like 40 pence a kWh and 3.5 miles a kWh is 10 kWh for £4.00 or 20 for £8 and that is taking you 70 miles. 

 4 miles a kWh then 80 miles for £8.00.   you are going to be at 80 pence a kWh charging to be double the price of petrol in the UK are you not?       Typical EV and 3.3 miles a kWh.   Sloppy use of typical.    Then ultra rapid.    Typical EV,s might only Rapid charge, as in 50 kW max.  Or can charge at 100 or 100 plus kW.       More newer TYPICAL EV,s.  That might be.   Bigger battery ones that might well be getting charged less often on a journey. 

Edited 21 September, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Bp pulse

 

Subscribers pay £7.85 per month for the lower rates to save 16p = 50kw per month every month to start saving.

 

 

Initially i will hold off on the wallbox at home because generally i don't go far.

 

Will it be ok for the battery if i set it to charge to 80% and maintain it there after trips by plugging in a granny charger to replace my daily low mileage?

 

I would then only have to pay the higher rates if i went too far from home which i assure you will be rare.

 

But i will be saving the planet.

 

I am also now learning that away from home charging could be a nightmare for me because i don't have a mobile phone contract 😂

 

 

Edited 21 September, 20241 yr by Stonekeeper

I got BP pulse free subscription from Motability instead of a charger.  What crap charging experienced.        That video taking about Motability.   83% sales increase year on year.    Impossible.  That can not be Motability UK being discussed. 

Real cost of driving EV long distance, during May bank holiday:

 

 

38 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Will it be ok for the battery if i set it to charge to 80% and maintain it there after trips by plugging in a granny charger to replace my daily low mileage?

Absolutely no problem with the VW 60 kWh battery. Only need to regularly charging to 100% is recommended is LFP batteries.

 

If your mileage is very low, can even consider lowering charge limit, I regularly charge to 60% and only up it when I need the extra miles.

 

But I'm not keen on relying on granny charger. It is highly dependent on the plug socket. An old socket with weak pins may overheat which is a hazard if you are charging overnight. Either charge during the day and check on it (touch the plug casing) every hour or get a proper charge point fitted.

 

 

 

Regarding public charging. Just get Electroverse card: https://electroverse.octopus.energy/map

(message me for a referral link and get a few £ credit on sign up, same with switching to Octopus Energy)

 

Single Electroverse card covers vast majority of UK networks. See here:

 

On 06/09/2024 at 12:26, wyx087 said:

Excellent table showing which charge point operator works with which payment:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/fuuse-wattsup-partnership-announced.186924/?post_id=3658927#post-3658927

Table can be copy and paste into Excel for filtering.

 

So essentially only need to have Octopus Electroverse and contactless bank card to cover majority.

 

If want to be sure sign up with the big individuals: BP Pulse, Podpoint and Tesla.

 

This is the rest, I can't say I've seen any of them in real life. I've only heard of Vend Electric for destination charging.

 

 

 

I just heard a radio ad by MG cars saying that for a limited time you can get £10,000 off the price on a MG Z4, looks like they are getting desperate to avoid the £15,000 fine for every one that they fail to sell by the end of the year. I'm surprised that their website as yet is not making any mention of the discount.

Edited 22 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

13 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I just heard a radio ad by MG cars saying that for a limited time you can get £10,000 off the price on a MG Z4, looks like they are getting desperate to avoid the £15,000 fine for every one that they fail to sell by the end of the year. I'm surprised that their website as yet is not making any mention of the discount.

 

Saw the price cut in Youtube advert think it was.  BYD, Geely, SAIC etc will be massively focusing on the UK market as Canada, EU and US become closed off with the additional 38% to 100% customs duties.  Northern Ireland will get hit with these EU CV duties of course.  So the Chinese manufacturers, which includes many supposedly European brands who get some of their cars built in China, will have to think again ie stop the Chinese government subsidies or assemble in the EU, or Turkey, which some like BYD and Gelly are planning to do, not sure about SAIC, they may move Chines production to assembly in other SE Asian countries to circumvent the EU rule but meanwhile UK is a place to sell whilst they can.

 

6 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Saw the price cut in Youtube advert think it was.  BYD, Geely, SAIC etc will be massively focusing on the UK market as Canada, EU and US become closed off with the additional 38% to 100% customs duties.  Northern Ireland will get hit with these EU CV duties of course.  So the Chinese manufacturers, which includes many supposedly European brands who get some of their cars built in China, will have to think again ie stop the Chinese government subsidies or assemble in the EU, or Turkey, which some like BYD and Gelly are planning to do, not sure about SAIC, they may move Chines production to assembly in other SE Asian countries to circumvent the EU rule but meanwhile UK is a place to sell whilst they can.

 

While that is another angle, are we not going to be applying similar taxation on Chinese cars then? Equally their thinking could be that its better to at this moment in time, to swallow 10K rather than 15K on each car a d also to try and clear some of their massive backlog of unsold cars?

BYD, the only vehicle manufacturer that can source nearly all of the components from themselves, not sure about tyres. My firm has ordered some of the 19T trucks....

 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/byd-unveils-new-line-up-of-electric-vans-and-trucks

 

Quoted range seems low for a battery over 255 kwh ie only 155 miles, not yet a motorway muncher to Scotland or even Felixstowe but it will get their with YoY, MoM improvements. .   BYD ETH8 eTruck

A further debutant in Hannover from the Chinese manufacturer is the the BYD ETH8, a 19t electric truck with a multipurpose platform for different operations and two wheelbase options.  It comes with a range of 250km (155 miles). It also offers an abundance of onboard equipment, and a spacious ergonomically designed cabin for driver comfort.   Like the BYD ETM6, it uses BYD’s eTruck platform which includes a five-in-one controller for optimum performance and efficiency, as well as ease of maintenance.   It has a large 255kWh battery capacity which can be charged from 20% to 100% in two hours.

On 21/09/2024 at 16:58, Stonekeeper said:

How often do people in London drive to penzance though.

 

 

 

No Idea  although there are 26 trains and 7 coaches a day from London to Penzance which may help to extrapolate demand for the journey ;o)

@lol-lol did you see my post re Chinese EVs here Car Park Fires, Transporters / Ships, any fires, an EV,s involved or not thread, were they the cause just there and so made fighting the fire harder. - Page 16 - Electric Vehicles - BRISKODA

It is claimed and the point can be seen in the video, that on some cars the airbags have also failed to go off even though the car is badly damaged.

 

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

While that is another angle, are we not going to be applying similar taxation on Chinese cars then? Equally their thinking could be that its better to at this moment in time, to swallow 10K rather than 15K on each car a d also to try and clear some of their massive backlog of unsold cars?

 

Well I expect the EU would like us to fall in line with the tariffs and to a degree the UK is required to under the Trade Cooperation Agreement ie our leaving deal to retain much of the trade between UK-EU-Uk to be zero duty, as long as it meets origin rules, Nissan are/were very worried about this of course.

 

Some argument that our cars for our market are Right Hand Driver whilst all the EU countries, bar the Republic of Ireland, are Left Hand Drive so there should not be a flood or UK bought cars being moved over to the EU a few a weeks/months of UK registration. We will see. Nice source of new revenue for UK government if they did slap a hefty CV duty on the cars.  It hards the consumer but it is a great election thing to say government is protecting EU, Canada, US jobs by introducing these new tariffs, even if it really hurts some consumers.

 

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol did you see my post re Chinese EVs here Car Park Fires, Transporters / Ships, any fires, an EV,s involved or not thread, were they the cause just there and so made fighting the fire harder. - Page 16 - Electric Vehicles - BRISKODA

 

 

Not had chance as been playing with my insanely complex new Renault Scenic.  It seems to be as much of a mobile computer station as an actual car to drive. Will get round to it.

 

The massive flooding all over the world is not good for either EV or ICE vehicles or their infrastructure or homes and industry. Narrowly missed it when in Europe last week, Berlin was fine but Poland, CZ, SK etc were badly hit and it causes so many problems like we saw with Tewkesbury in 2007.  

 

10 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

No Idea  although there are 26 trains and 7 coaches a day from London to Penzance which may help to extrapolate demand for the journey ;o)

 

Many get off at Plymouth, Xecteter or Truro of course.  Good argument to stop the train at Truro or Plymouth as cannot be economic I would have thought.  Romans thought so too.   

3 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Well I expect the EU would like us to fall in line with the tariffs and to a degree the UK is required to under the Trade Cooperation Agreement ie our leaving deal to retain much of the trade between UK-EU-Uk to be zero duty, as long as it meets origin rules, Nissan are/were very worried about this of course.

 

Some argument that our cars for our market are Right Hand Driver whilst all the EU countries, bar the Republic of Ireland, are Left Hand Drive so there should not be a flood or UK bought cars being moved over to the EU a few a weeks/months of UK registration. We will see. Nice source of new revenue for UK government if they did slap a hefty CV duty on the cars.  It hards the consumer but it is a great election thing to say government is protecting EU, Canada, US jobs by introducing these new tariffs, even if it really hurts some consumers.

 

That revenue source is only going to be there, if the British public continue to but their cars, with the new tariffs in place they might so much closer to the prices of say Tesla, that one of two things might, either they might elect to buy Tesla or they might elect not to buy a new car after all.

7 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Not had chance as been playing with my insanely complex new Renault Scenic.  It seems to be as much of a mobile computer station as an actual car to drive. Will get round to it.

 

The massive flooding all over the world is not good for either EV or ICE vehicles or their infrastructure or homes and industry. Narrowly missed it when in Europe last week, Berlin was fine but Poland, CZ, SK etc were badly hit and it causes so many problems like we saw with Tewkesbury in 2007.  

 

That video is not about the floods in China, but the very poor built quality and corner cutting in their cars and their batteries as well as how the government suppress these news events from being leaked, even to their own citizens, well worth a watch, especially anyone thinking of buying one of their EV vehicles.

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Many get off at Plymouth, Xecteter or Truro of course.  Good argument to stop the train at Truro or Plymouth as cannot be economic I would have thought.  Romans thought so too.   

That is not the answer, though, is it? We are being told that electric is the way to go, not only for the sake of the environment, but also we are being told that it is cheaper per mile, but that is only true if you are able to, and do charge at home especially on the right tariff with a smart meter, and or, are prepared to spend many hours at one of the far slower and so cheaper chargers. Most people do not have that ability, nor the time to waste sitting around getting enough charge to complete their journey. 

 

 

MG / SAIC is not the ones that are going to fail to have 22% of first registrations in the UK are they.  They are VW,s partner for the Kidology.   Is it not VW Group that is going to pay for the discounted sales / leasing of MG,s? 

Is there any carmaker who is going to achieve their 22% target this year without having to resort to preregistering or savage price cuts to minimise their exposure to the 15K fine per car under sold?

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is not the answer, though, is it? We are being told that electric is the way to go, not only for the sake of the environment, but also we are being told that it is cheaper per mile, but that is only true if you are able to, and do charge at home especially on the right tariff with a smart meter, and or, are prepared to spend many hours at one of the far slower and so cheaper chargers. Most people do not have that ability, nor the time to waste sitting around getting enough charge to complete their journey. 

The charging speed is not either or. This is often not understood by people without EV ownership experience, after all, petrol pumps dispense at 1 speed. 

 

Slow charging is cheaper, that will incentivises people to use slow charging when speed isn't needed (eg. overnight, workplace). Win-win for both grid carbon emission and individual's pocket. 

When charging speed is needed, for example whilst on the road, then just pay higher cost to get the speed. 

 

For vast majority of people, needing to charge quickly whilst on the road will be a tiny percent of their overall miles. 

For me, it has been less than 7% across 2 vehicles. But I admit I do more day trips than long road trips away..... accommodation are expensive. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

That video is not about the floods in China, but the very poor built quality and corner cutting in their cars and their batteries as well as how the government suppress these news events from being leaked, even to their own citizens, well worth a watch, especially anyone thinking of buying one of their EV vehicles.

That video is from a long time youtuber that has an agenda, he has never said a good thing about the CCP government. 

 

Just like people brand Robert Llewellyn based on his always positive EV outlook and not showing the full picture. I wouldn't expect anything else from that particular youtube channel. So be careful about that channel and count on them not showing the full picture to fit their narrative. 

 

Note, I'm not rubbishing your own post. I'm only pointing out limitation of that particular youtube channel from my previous experiences on multiple different issues. And when you go down this youtube algo rabbit hole, many more will appear. The situation on the ground is vastly different to what's been reported by those channels.  

TESLA and MG are exceeding the 22% First Registrations of zero emissions vehicles in the UK are they not?     PS.  Car manufacturers have been selling cars to themselves for decades then selling them as used.  Manipulation sales figures and the market including used cars.   VW group and others are money lenders and in the pyramid selling business.  

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Ootohere

4 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The charging speed is not either or. This is often not understood by people without EV ownership experience, after all, petrol pumps dispense at 1 speed. 

 

Slow charging is cheaper, that will incentivises people to use slow charging when speed isn't needed (eg. overnight, workplace). Win-win for both grid carbon emission and individual's pocket. 

When charging speed is needed, for example whilst on the road, then just pay higher cost to get the speed. 

 

For vast majority of people, needing to charge quickly whilst on the road will be a tiny percent of their overall miles. 

For me, it has been less than 7% across 2 vehicles. But I admit I do more day trips than long road trips away..... accommodation are expensive. 

 

That is not what I said, I explained the parameters we are being told by government that electric is the way to go, they also alongside many other sources, that going electric should also be cheaper motoring per mile for fuel, but that simply is not true unless you can charge at home, and most journeys are with in the range that a home charge will replace the energy used and that if a longer journey is required, that in order to maintain that promise of cheaper motoring per mile, you are also prepared to use the slower chargers and thus spend time waiting to get enough charge to complete your journey.

Why do you always twist things around, there is no need to explain that it might be possible to use a faster charger and thus save time, but you are also paying more for the energy, assuming that your particular car is also capable of using the faster charger, for you know the person might have purchased a car which has a maximum charge rate of 7kW.