1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

That video is from a long time youtuber that has an agenda, he has never said a good thing about the CCP government. 

 

Just like people brand Robert Llewellyn based on his always positive EV outlook and not showing the full picture. I wouldn't expect anything else from that particular youtube channel. So be careful about that channel and count on them not showing the full picture to fit their narrative. 

 

Note, I'm not rubbishing your own post. I'm only pointing out limitation of that particular youtube channel from my previous experiences on multiple different issues. And when you go down this youtube algo rabbit hole, many more will appear. The situation on the ground is vastly different to what's been reported by those channels.  

The thing is that we all know just how secretive the CCP government is and the views put forward by this youtuber also fall into line by a good deal of other youtubers, we also know just how rubbish many of their standards and some products are, so I would not be too hasty to dismiss what the youtuber is claiming,

 

How do you know that the situation on the ground is vastly different to what's been reported by those channels? Have you been there, have you lived there and if you lived there, when and for how long? I have as it happens quite a few Chinese friends who don't disagree with these peoples views, and these youtubers have lived in China for a number of years so I think that they can speak with more authority on that subject than most of us can.

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

29 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

TESLA and MG are exceeding the 22% First Registrations of zero emissions vehicles in the UK are they not?     PS.  Car manufacturers have been selling cars to themselves for decades then selling them as used.  Manipulation sales figures and the market including used cars.   VW group and others are money lenders and in the pyramid selling business.  

Yes, I know that they sell to themselves at times, but did they ever have penalties being imposed if their sales quotas have not been reached. Is this year not the first time (I can't recall such an event happening before), that they face a massive UK fine for each car that is an electric one until the 22% quota of all their sales is achieved.

 

I also wonder just how many or indeed if any of the MG and Tesla cars have been effectively sold back to themselves (preregistering), after all they are not likely to tell us if they have or have not done that are they? Getting the truth is hard.

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is not what I said, I explained the parameters we are being told by government that electric is the way to go, they also alongside many other sources, that going electric should also be cheaper motoring per mile for fuel, but that simply is not true unless you can charge at home, and most journeys are with in the range that a home charge will replace the energy used and that if a longer journey is required, that in order to maintain that promise of cheaper motoring per mile, you are also prepared to use the slower chargers and thus spend time waiting to get enough charge to complete your journey.

Why do you always twist things around, there is no need to explain that it might be possible to use a faster charger and thus save time, but you are also paying more for the energy, assuming that your particular car is also capable of using the faster charger, for you know the person might have purchased a car which has a maximum charge rate of 7kW.

Again, it isn't either or. Not twisting, this post yet again shows you view total ownership cost ("promise of cheaper motoring") must be calculated with either slow or fast cost. It simply isn't the case. 

 

Just because rapid charging is expensive, doesn't mean it would dominate overall charging cost, also known as cost per mile. Expensive charging would be a small percentage of total charging cost. When convenient, charge slowly, when needed, pay more for the speed. It's a mix. 

 

For example, for me, 93.6% of my charging is at 7 to 7.5 p/kWh. Rest is around 30-45 p/kWh. Overall is going to be less than 10 p/kWh. Less than 3p/mile. 

 

20 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

How do you know that the situation on the ground is vastly different to what's been reported by those channels? Have you been there, have you lived there and if you lived there, when and for how long?

Yes, I visit regularly, last time was Dec 2023. 

Yes, I had previously lived there for over 12 years. 

 

Again, I'm not saying those youtube channels are wrong. As you keep saying, there's truth in them. I'm just pointing out that the image they project often have an agenda against the said secretive government and it is not the full picture.

 

TBH this is true of any divisive topic and social media algorithms feed this extremist cycle the more you watch. Again, not blaming you for posting, but similar channels saying the same thing does not make the said problem wide spread. Actual scale of problems/unrest are difficult to judge through social media. 

 

As you say, "truth is hard" to come by. I'm only highlighting that particular channel because years ago I've watched a dozen of his videos on other issues but later discovered discrepancy to what's happening on the ground. Around here, I found truth is usually half way between social media extreme reporting and traditional media's muted reporting. Key is finding the balance and not solely relying one. 

@Graham Butcher what you know or not know or remember is down to you.

 

As it is the EU lets certain things just slide. Close but no coconut, and maybe no fines..

@Ootohere I was talking about the UK target and fines are set at £15k for each car sold in the UK that falls below the UK government set figure of 22% of all new cars being sold have to be electric. The EU target for their new cars to be electric is 2035, the current UK government have nailed their colours to the mast for that date to be reduced to 2030 here in the UK, have they not?  

Electric vehicles (parliament.uk)

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

^^^ 

New rules. still only September of the first year.  So lets get to the end before guessing.

 

Nobody has nailed anything yet on 2035 or 2030, because like the Average Emissions targets, then the Euro 7 introduction sh!t happens.

World Wide pandemic, chip shortages, a war in Eastern Europe which is not a war but a Russian Military action.

 

Lets see if there is a war in the Middle East, disruption to oil and gas, a Oil Refinery or 2 shuts in the UK.

 

There are draughts in South American Countries, water shortages, so Hydro electricity shortages and Oil or Coal generation of electricity needed.

All the world or the UK needs is rationing of anything, materials, minerals, energy or cheap labour. 

 

..................

Hungary holds lots of cards.

Putin,s cards as the Gas goes through there to other EU Countries.

Lots of car parts and vehicles are manufactured in Hungary, German Companies cars and Parts.

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Ootohere

34 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The EU target for their new cars to be electric is 2035, the current UK government have nailed their colours to the mast for that date to be reduced to 2030 here in the UK, have they not?  

From your parliament.uk link:

"This will rise from 22% in 2024 to 80% by 2030 and 100% in 2035. "

Currently not much different to EU.

 

The original 2030 phase-out plan by Conservative government have a TBD requirement for electric-only miles. Vehicle can still be 100% powered from ICE bought at petrol station up to 2035.

https://www.evexperts.co.uk/what-are-labours-plans-for-electric-cars/

"Restore the new petrol/diesel car phase-out date to 2030;"

This doesn't sound like Labour plan to change this.

 

Just now, wyx087 said:

 

 

Currently not much different to EU.

 

 

 

except the EU is targeting emissions reduction  which would allow PHEVS remain in play post 2035 whereas the UK is targeting Zero Emissions which will mean PHEVs are also pushed out

The New UK Government 80 days in can not get it's crap together.

Lets see how things go with a Winter of Discontent, a few thousand car factory workers striking, transport workers striking, the energy companies, utility, oil and gas have a wee flaky and Sir Jim Ratcliffe & Sir Ian Wood, Lord Bamford / family, and others throwing spanners in the works.

 

Nissan & BMW / MINI and others will be telling the Liebour Government what they are wanting. 

 

Lets not forget that everything the UK needs that is not already here comes in mainly by sea or by air, and some maybe under the sea.

Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the waves, or thinks it can, but can not secure the seaways of the world, or even the seas around the British Isles.

Or the interconnectors.

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Ootohere

45 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

From your parliament.uk link:

"This will rise from 22% in 2024 to 80% by 2030 and 100% in 2035. "

Currently not much different to EU.

 

The original 2030 phase-out plan by Conservative government have a TBD requirement for electric-only miles. Vehicle can still be 100% powered from ICE bought at petrol station up to 2035.

https://www.evexperts.co.uk/what-are-labours-plans-for-electric-cars/

"Restore the new petrol/diesel car phase-out date to 2030;"

This doesn't sound like Labour plan to change this.

 

That is what I was saying, by 2030 it is expected that UK will ban all sales of new pure ICE vehicles, so will have to be some form of electric, 🙄

^^^ &?

 

The voting public voted in the last governments and then this one.

So we are where we are until we are not.  

38 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

The New UK Government 80 days in can not get it's crap together.

Lets see how things go with a Winter of Discontent, a few thousand car factory workers striking, transport workers striking, the energy companies, utility, oil and gas have a wee flaky and Sir Jim Ratcliffe & Sir Ian Wood, Lord Bamford / family, and others throwing spanners in the works.

 

Nissan & BMW / MINI and others will be telling the Liebour Government what they are wanting. 

 

Lets not forget that everything the UK needs that is not already here comes in mainly by sea or by air, and some maybe under the sea.

Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the waves, or thinks it can, but can not secure the seaways of the world, or even the seas around the British Isles.

Or the interconnectors.

Yes, but I was saying that the UK intended plan is to phase out and pure ICE cars in 2030 making all new car purchases therefore some form of electric. I understand that existing ICE will not be banned and that second-hand cars will still be available for sale and fully usable for the foreseeable future.

 

Whether the events happen to either allow that date happen as planned or to slide further into the future or get shelved, nobody knows for sure, but it would take a very brave or naive person / company not to prepare for the planned date in case none any of the events you mention which could happen, don't actually happen.

 

Yes I also accept that I don't personally have any personal experience of an electric car unlike you, wyx087 or Lol-Lol etc, but that does not prevent me from taking a keen interest in electric cars. I have always been interested in cars, I'm not what Clarkson would call a true petrol head as I like all forms of power for cars, be it petrol, diesel, electric, hydrogen,  synthetic fuels or even jet fuel as once touted with the appearance of the gas turbine cars that many experimented with Category:Cars powered by gas turbines - Wikipedia

34 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, but I was saying that the UK intended plan is to phase out and pure ICE cars in 2030 making all new car purchases therefore some form of electric. I understand that existing ICE will not be banned and that second-hand cars will still be available for sale and fully usable for the foreseeable future.   Whether the events happen to either allow that date happen as planned or to slide further into the future or get shelved, nobody knows for sure, but it would take a very brave or naive person / company not to prepare for the planned date in case none any of the events you mention which could happen, don't actually happen.   Yes I also accept that I don't personally have any personal experience of an electric car unlike you, wyx087 or Lol-Lol etc, but that does not prevent me from taking a keen interest in electric cars. I have always been interested in cars, I'm not what Clarkson would call a true petrol head as I like all forms of power for cars, be it petrol, diesel, electric, hydrogen,  synthetic fuels or even jet fuel as once touted with the appearance of the gas turbine cars that many experimented with Category:Cars powered by gas turbines - Wikipedia

 

Atomic batteries and turbines......

 

1 hour ago, Winston_Woof said:

except the EU is targeting emissions reduction  which would allow PHEVS remain in play post 2035 whereas the UK is targeting Zero Emissions which will mean PHEVs are also pushed out

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-countries-poised-approve-2035-phaseout-co2-emitting-cars-2023-03-28/

"The EU law will require all new cars sold to have zero CO2 emissions from 2035, and 55% lower CO2 emissions from 2030, versus 2021 levels. "

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/ en/ip_22_6462

"The European Commission welcomes the agreement reached last night by the European Parliament and Council ensuring all new cars and vans registered in Europe will be zero-emission by 2035."

 

You sure PHEV will be allowed?

 

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

The EU target for their new cars to be electric

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

so will have to be some form of electric, 🙄

Cheeky change of definition.

 

But last time I checked, PHEV count as "some form of electric" yet it is still not zero-emission as per EU 2035 target.

@lol-lol I'll raise you another one.

 

 

20 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-countries-poised-approve-2035-phaseout-co2-emitting-cars-2023-03-28/

"The EU law will require all new cars sold to have zero CO2 emissions from 2035, and 55% lower CO2 emissions from 2030, versus 2021 levels. "

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/ en/ip_22_6462

"The European Commission welcomes the agreement reached last night by the European Parliament and Council ensuring all new cars and vans registered in Europe will be zero-emission by 2035."

 

You sure PHEV will be allowed?

 

Cheeky change of definition.

 

But last time I checked, PHEV count as "some form of electric" yet it is still not zero-emission as per EU 2035 target.

Nope, it is not some cheeky change of definition, I never stated BEV which is exactly what your implying.

 

No I'm currently not sure what the EU requirements are exactly, but it is my understanding that it is the UK that is pushing zero emissions and the EU is more focused on CO2 reductions

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

27 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol I'll raise you another one.

 

 

 

It's mostly fake I think.

 

38 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

No I'm currently not sure what the EU requirements are exactly, but it is my understanding that it is the UK that is pushing zero emissions and the EU is more focused on CO2 reductions

Here is a direct link to EU commission official website again, stating what they plan to do:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/ en/ip_22_6462

"The European Commission welcomes the agreement reached last night by the European Parliament and Council ensuring all new cars and vans registered in Europe will be zero-emission by 2035. "

 

It's best for everyone if you stop listening to those fanning the flame of hate. At very least try to find correct information for yourself before typing away to have your last say.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

It's mostly fake I think.

 

Of course the car is fake., it's a replica built by a batman fan.

 

Here is the text that goes with the video on YT.

 

Quote.

1,949,919 views Nov 24, 2022

I built a custom replica of a 1966 Batmobile. When I go to car shows people ask if the buttons and switches all work. They do. I made this video to demonstrate most of the features of the car, including the simulated turbine start up sound. Finish body work and paint by Mr. Pat Crafton. Here is a link to another video of the Batmobile chasing the Joker:

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Just as a point of reference, as things  I have no intention of buying a new car in the next 20 or 30 years of my life so technically most of this bull is irrelevant to me unless in that time they try forcing all ICE vehicles on the preloved market off the road by one devious measure or another.  
 

Any opinion is entirely hypothetical 

Any more Compulsory Safety Features being introduced as being Compulsory at manufacturing will make the vehicles offered be them electrified or not less appealing to many drivers and just accepted by possibly the majority. 

 

New drivers getting into the latest vehicles right from their tuition and then getting their first vehicle might not even care about stuff.

 

There are going to have to be manual vehicles available for those taking a driving test and wanting to be able to drive manual or auto.

I know nothing about driving tests but are they caught up with e-brakes, autohold and learning to use and drive with these or manual parking / hand brakes?

Edited 23 September, 20241 yr by Ootohere

11 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

...   I know nothing about driving tests but are they caught up with e-brakes, autohold and learning to use and drive with these or manual parking / hand brakes?

What is all this ?

 

( please bear in mind that I reside in a ditch in the middle of a bog......'n drive the very latest thing....a derv Octy 1 )

You have the best car on the forum in my book!

Not sure if true or fake but quite funny either way......

 

Plausible, it probably has a generator set on board sharing the vehicles fuel.

 

What does Elon drive?

Edited 24 September, 20241 yr by J.R.