1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

That's not my experience where I drive in the South and South West, I have yet to see a charging hub on a major route without queues of EVs waiting to charge.

 

Exeter services which has dozens and the new hub at Buckfast area and the Cornwall services ?

 

Gridserve have planning permission for a Braintree/Gatwick/Norwich style ev service station on outland road near Home Park, Green Army !!

 

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

That's not my experience where I drive in the South and South West, I have yet to see a charging hub on a major route without queues of EVs waiting to charge.

 

Filter by faster than 75kW, 6 or more charge points at each location:

 

 

If I were driving towards Cornwall, I'd top up here, 32 superchargers. That's 200 miles from North London, almost 4 hours driving with usual traffic like now. 123 miles from Land's End, meaning 1 top up plenty to explore Cornwall.

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/findus?v=2&bounds=51.88238755378513%2C-2.461971635972955%2C49.59910076013977%2C-6.021541948472954&zoom=9&filters=supercharger%2Cparty%2Cnacs&location=9795

5 more hubs further in Cornwall, 8 or more at each location and others are open to all cars.

 

Looks pretty much guaranteed no queue from historical data: 

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by wyx087

On 08/10/2024 at 13:38, domhnall said:

you can have one or the other but not both or the car won't know which one to use

 

So is it better to not activate it on any then i can use whichever app is the cheapest at the time?

47 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Exeter services which has dozens and the new hub at Buckfast area and the Cornwall services ?

 

Gridserve have planning permission for a Braintree/Gatwick/Norwich style ev service station on outland road near Home Park, Green Army !!

 

Interesting, but it's north Devon I drive to so Exeter is off route.

 

It 'amuses' me that, as Ootohere has mentioned in an earlier post, some people seem to try to expand their regional experience to the whole country - the simple fact is that public infrastructure coverage is NOT consistent throughout the whole of England, Scotland and Wales so people's experiences of the coverage will vary and it's pointless, some would say stupid, to maintain that just because one person sees good or bad coverage that will apply to all 60+ million of us.

 

@PetrolDave Nail on the head.

In Scotland where there were early adopters and free public charging there were drivers using public chargers rather than charging at home.

Then tariffs came in and where cars used to get abandoned for hours or even days on chargers they started being quite empty.

Then tariffs got higher again and there were time limits and penalties and previously busy chargers, even AC ones became a lot quieter.

 

Now even though prices are not that high really but there are mostly just 50 kW DC max speeds people, business users and private users are going to Commercial Ultra Rapid chargers.  Bugger cars with biggger batteries and wanting 100 / 100+ charging speeds.

Often those with work vehicles could not care about the price of charging.   Actually some in vans or cars do not care about £1 a minute over 40 or 50 minutes on a 50kW charger as they just want charged and to get on with work. 

 

PS

There was a dearth of Public Charging around and in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire and now in the City and on the By-pass there are lots of chargers to choose from.

Very much underused now though, damn expensive and those that can workplace charge or home charge might now be doing that as and when at a quarter or less of the Commercial chargers, or even half on a standard tariff what the Council chargers are.  

 

Edinburgh and Glasgow are much better now for Ultra Rapid Chargers, 

Dundee has so much choice and chargers are used because of people passing through and the Taxi & Couriers and local BEV & PHEV,s.

 

Many that ask me if an EV is worth getting are told only if you can charge at home or work or do not do long journeys and want to pay more than you do running your petrol or diesel.

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

@Ootohere well what I see is correct and if you look on that map that @Luckypantsposted it is pretty clear that my part of the country is poorly covered by charger locations / hubs so suggests either we don't enough grid capacity or maybe we have the largest stock of houses and or the most flats where people are not able to home charge possibly, do you think?

 

As to where my son, lives just 4 miles away, it is just the biggest new housing project ever I think where they are building thousands of new homes, a mix of large blocks of flats and oodles of smaller to large houses with drives etc so that is the area with loads of Tesla and Porsche Taycans, some homes have 2 or more, so clearly the more affluent folk live there.

 

There may also be a lot of truth in what @Luckypants said about "Build it and they will come" and seeing as they have not built much of the infrastructure in my area, not many people are willing to risk being stranded with no Juice?

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

^^^

What you need is Wind Turbines onshore & solar and battery storage and pylons, and pay a fair price for energy if it has to come from others area. 

 

What i see is that Private buyers are being put off by the cost of Public Charging if that is what they will need to do.

There is a Social Divide, and that is not just an income one, it is tool for your work & transport, or just a car you buy / lease and pay to run. 

 

 

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

On 09/10/2024 at 08:32, domhnall said:

 

that's not how probability works. You could have double the number of EVs as petrol cars on the roads and the probability of an ICE car spontaneoulsy combusting would still be greater. The proportion of ICE cars versus EVs catching fire has nothing to do with the relative number of each type on the road. 

The biggest cause of ICE fires (excluding people doing stupid things, dropped cigarettes etc) is not the type of fuel, or the more "complicated" engine with its more moving parts, it is pure ageing of things like plastic fuel pipes etc and leaking blocked DPF's, many cars are considerably older than the EVs, DIY maintenance to a poor standard on the older cars, corners being cut due to costs etc.

 

Take a look around a carpark next time and at the general condition of many of the ICE cars, bits of bodywork being held on with parcel tape etc, that is something you don't tend to see with EVs, why because their owners are clearly better off in the first place, and secondly, the EVs are still young and have yet to reach the maturity of these ICE cars. I really do not understand why it is that those with EVs cannot see this for themselves. Have a look at the collection of old classics that take part in the annual London to Brighton run each and see just how reliable they are and then compare them with yours then maybe you might just grasp it, your cars are like starships compared to them. Anything as it gets old is less reliable and frail, becomes prone to all kinds of failure modes, including us.

 

Its not rocket science, just pure logic, the fact that someone has commissioned a study / report into the chances of either catching fire should be ringing alarms as to the reasons why that report was commissioned in the first place, follow the money and you might discover that was paid for someone with a vested interest in keeping EV sales on track. Think about it a bit more, have you ever been aware of anyone doing a study on the probability of fire with petrol to diesel? I suggest not, I know I haven't.

 

So as I said earlier, it is obvious that you are far more likely to see ICE cars on fire than you are an EV. Give it another 10 to 15 years (if EV models that are being used now are still in use then) and you will begin to see many more EV fires because of the ageing taking its toll.

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

3 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

That's not my experience where I drive in the South and South West, I have yet to see a charging hub on a major route without queues of EVs waiting to charge.

Fair enough Dave, I've never driven down there in my EV. However, the charging map gives me confidence it won't be a problem. My experience is that there is no issue with charging but take your earlier point that this might not be true for all 60m of us.

 

 

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by Stonekeeper

....and to underline how quickly the charging landscape is improving PoGo Charge launched a new ultra-rapid site at J24 of the M5 with 10 plugs from 5 200kW chargers. So more chargers for the south west @PetrolDave.

20 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Says the man who was unaware of the PFS in your area alone, presumably because your Enyaq only show on its satnav the charging locations being an electric it has no interest in PFS?

au contraire, as I have told you before I was not in my Enyaq (which bizarrely does flag up petrol filling stations complete with operator logos for the oil companies).

I was not aware of it because that is not a road I have been on for years and last time I was there the PFS like so many others was lying derelict. Even if I had been aware of it I would not have gone there becasue I wpuld have then been on completely the wrong trnk road with no easy way to get back on the correct route without a very hard to make right turn in heavy rush hour traffic.  The one I did go to was a couple of miles away with roundabouts to ease my way back on to the bypass. 

I thought my profession was plagued by pedantic nit picking but it seems electrical engineers are every but as bad. 🤨


 

18 hours ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher   I know it well as my Grandchildren live in Penicuick and i skied at Hillend from the 1970,s.

 

Really best stop looking at maps without understanding locations and junctions.

Dreghorn is an easier filling station for on and off the Bypass. 

 

Maybe visit here sometime.  Plenty EV charging in the area..

 

 

 

 

 

precisely, if I had known the esso one was open again and decided to use it I would then have been trying to make a right turn across a bisy trunk road rammed with the rush hour exodus in a VW trnsporter which is not quite as quick off the mark as my Enyaq. @Graham Butcher keeps querying why my enyaq didn't flag up the Esso PFS when I was trying to find somewhere to buy diesel but there's no way I could see my Eyaq screen while driving a vehicle that needs diesel . It's a bizarre thread this one. 

@domhnallLol, and to think that this whole saga could have been avoided if it were not for the fact that you and so many home charging EV drivers had not been spoilt by the automatic overnight refuelling capability that you have with the Enyaq. If you didn't have that function then you'd probably not have seen that 25 minutes it took to go and get your diesel as negatively as you did, but instead it would have been just another normal day, and you would not have thought any more of it.

 

Or of course, if you had not so doggedly stuck to your unwillingness to actually separate the travelling and queueing time from the true time of filling the tank, which is exactly the same analogy as the time taken to top up your EV from a low SOC to at least 80% if you had to rely on a public charger for the Enyaq.

 

Which is exactly how ICE drivers view their refuelling, without that dino juice we are not going to go anywhere, just as without lecky, neither are EV drivers, but ICE can go from 0 to 390-mile range (your VW) in 5 minutes to how long would it take your Enyaq to go from say 5% to 100% SOC to achieve a range of upto 330 miles at a public charger? I certainly know which one of the two vehicles would be departing first from the pump / charger under those conditions

 

Yes I do understand it can be a faff filling up prior to the trip, but as a good scout (note I was never a scout) being prepared can actually save a lot of time on the day as invariably real life can sometimes throw you a curved ball at the last moment making some time limited trips touch and go if you're going to make it in time. 

 

Incidentally, have you seen how many homes in Florida right now that have their power cut as a result of storm Milton, any EV drivers trying to flee are maybe regretting their EV car right now if they have no charge left.

3 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

precisely, if I had known the esso one was open again and decided to use it I would then have been trying to make a right turn across a bisy trunk road rammed with the rush hour exodus in a VW trnsporter which is not quite as quick off the mark as my Enyaq. @Graham Butcher keeps querying why my enyaq didn't flag up the Esso PFS when I was trying to find somewhere to buy diesel but there's no way I could see my Eyaq screen while driving a vehicle that needs diesel . It's a bizarre thread this one. 

So wrong, give people some credit, why on earth would I expect your Enyaq sat nav to be with you when it was obvious you were driving your diesel VW🙄. I expected that as it was in your neighbourhood that 1) you would have known about it being there and 2) when in your Enyaq it would have shown up on your screen, and you might have sublimely absorbed in your brain.

 

Much the same as TomTom also shows me where there are chargers. But the reality is that it must have been your original intention to go to Costco purely on the price difference between what you paid and what you would have paid anywhere else, and the resultant time delay was a result of that. You could have gone to the Dreghorn PFS on the left just as @Ootohere said, but you didn't.

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

@Graham Butcher   I think you have made so error as to @domhnalls neighbourhood. 

 

PS. EDIT.

@Graham Butcher  I used to use Dreghorn because i got LPG there are i used to stay in the Travelodge as it was the cheapest in the area.

Otherwise i do not go to Shell Filling Stations for petrol or diesel. 

The Little Chef was wonderful for a breakfast, and the last time i was there we never got breakfast.

The Manager had absconded with thousands of quid i later found out. 

 

...................

They were running out of gasoline trying to flee Florida.

If their homes are not under water some might be running electric in their homes from the vehicle.

Or from the Power wall. 

 

Like some were doing in floods and storms in Scotland and elsewhere in the last few major storms and power outages or floods.

 

As it is if the roads are flooded then unless trucks or boats they might be going no place. 

 

 

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

@Ootohere I might have been wrong about the neighbourhood, but his words indicated that was where he lives, and he never tried to correct that impression.

 

And the Florida, bit I agree they might have been doing all of those things, and then more than likely not, just as most EV drivers/owners over this side of the pond are not doing. There will always be some who are very clued-up on this sort of thing like @lol-lol and @wyx087 and yourself, but there are vast numbers who just treat it in the same fashion as they do any ICE vehicle and not go beyond home charging.

 

Running out of Gasoline is always possible, but in an emergency like that, there is always the possibility of siphoning some Gasoline from other vehicles with full tanks in order to help a fellow neighbour escape the area, is such a thing even possible with an EV?

Edited 10 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

@domhnallLol, and to think that this whole saga could have been avoided if it were not for the fact that you and so many home charging EV drivers had not been spoilt by the automatic overnight refuelling capability that you have with the Enyaq. If you didn't have that function then you'd probably not have seen that 25 minutes it took to go and get your diesel as negatively as you did, but instead it would have been just another normal day, and you would not have thought any more of it.

 

Or of course, if you had not so doggedly stuck to your unwillingness to actually separate the travelling and queueing time from the true time of filling the tank, which is exactly the same analogy as the time taken to top up your EV from a low SOC to at least 80% if you had to rely on a public charger for the Enyaq.

 

Which is exactly how ICE drivers view their refuelling, without that dino juice we are not going to go anywhere, just as without lecky, neither are EV drivers, but ICE can go from 0 to 390-mile range (your VW) in 5 minutes to how long would it take your Enyaq to go from say 5% to 100% SOC to achieve a range of upto 330 miles at a public charger? I certainly know which one of the two vehicles would be departing first from the pump / charger under those conditions

 

Yes I do understand it can be a faff filling up prior to the trip, but as a good scout (note I was never a scout) being prepared can actually save a lot of time on the day as invariably real life can sometimes throw you a curved ball at the last moment making some time limited trips touch and go if you're going to make it in time. 

 

Incidentally, have you seen how many homes in Florida right now that have their power cut as a result of storm Milton, any EV drivers trying to flee are maybe regretting their EV car right now if they have no charge left.

 

I only made the point about the time taken to fill the VW because you were suggesting that it takes longer to make a journey inan EV than in a fossil car. I merely jumped into this thread (and boy do I regret that) to explain as an owebr of both a fossil and an electric vehicle that my experience is the opposite. Because the fossil one seems bizarrely unable to fill itself whiel I am havig lunch etc, it actually takes loner to complete a journey.  I have no idea how long it would take to go from 5 to 100% because I am not in the habit of waiting for my car to charge. I plug in, go to wherever I have to go (work, coffee, toilet, for food or whatever) and when I am finished I unplug. So the process of waiting for the car takes maybe 30 secinds while I unplug. In the fossil you reckon 5 minutes, I reckon longer, but then I have 80 litres to pump after all. Although at Costco I only had to put in 75 litres. 

4 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@Ootohere I might have been wrong about the neighbourhood, but his words indicated that was where he lives, and he never tried to correct that impression.

 

And the Florida, bit I agree they might have been doing all of those things, and then more than likely not, just as most EV drivers/owners over this side of the pond are not doing. There will always be some who are very clued-up on this sort of thing like @lol-lol and @wyx087 and yourself, but there are vast numbers who just treat it in the same fashion as they do any ICE vehicle and not go beyond home charging.

 

Running out of Gasoline is always possible, but in an emergency like that, there is always the possibility of siphoning some Gasoline from other vehicles with full tanks in order to help a fellow neighbour escape the area, is such a thing even possible with an EV?

I don't imagine the floridians will be oumping much gas without the power being on either and yes some EVs can indeed charge other EVs just as phones can be used to charge other phones

 

1 minute ago, domhnall said:

 

I only made the point about the time taken to fill the VW because you were suggesting that it takes longer to make a journey inan EV than in a fossil car. I merely jumped into this thread (and boy do I regret that) to explain as an owebr of both a fossil and an electric vehicle that my experience is the opposite. Because the fossil one seems bizarrely unable to fill itself whiel I am havig lunch etc, it actually takes loner to complete a journey.  I have no idea how long it would take to go from 5 to 100% because I am not in the habit of waiting for my car to charge. I plug in, go to wherever I have to go (work, coffee, toilet, for food or whatever) and when I am finished I unplug. So the process of waiting for the car takes maybe 30 secinds while I unplug. In the fossil you reckon 5 minutes, I reckon longer, but then I have 80 litres to pump after all. Although at Costco I only had to put in 75 litres. 

I never made that claim at all, that is the way that read it, not the way I wrote it. I was only queering why you claimed that it took 25 minutes to fill a tank with diesel. Your wife goes shopping but does she include the time it took her to shop for the food, include that in the time it takes to cook the said food, the two events are entirely separate from each other.

 

I do accept that the time taken to go and get the diesel and back to the route was 25 minutes but you were not standing there, squeezing the trigger on the pump for that long were you.???

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@Ootohere I might have been wrong about the neighbourhood, but his words indicated that was where he lives, and he never tried to correct that impression.

 

And the Florida, bit I agree they might have been doing all of those things, and then more than likely not, just as most EV drivers/owners over this side of the pond are not doing. There will always be some who are very clued-up on this sort of thing like @lol-lol and @wyx087 and yourself, but there are vast numbers who just treat it in the same fashion as they do any ICE vehicle and not go beyond home charging.

 

Running out of Gasoline is always possible, but in an emergency like that, there is always the possibility of siphoning some Gasoline from other vehicles with full tanks in order to help a fellow neighbour escape the area, is such a thing even possible with an EV?

 

I do indeed stay in Livingston which is why I didn't correct you, it is hard to correct someone who is in the right before you point that out too. The A702 is not a route I have been down for many years so I cannot claim to be familiar with it. I am indebted to you for pointing out the Shell station, I wasn't aware of its existence either, though I suspect like most Shell stations it is significantly more expensive than the £1.29 a litre which I paid at costco. And when you're buying 75 litres the difference ammounts to more than the few coppers to which you referred earlier.  I wasn't aware that it was there because it is not by the side of the road i was on. It's all very well saying if you divert off the route you're on there is a PFS but if you don't know which diversion to take then you're not goign to take it. Costco was the first PFS of which I was aware other than the much more expensive Sainsbury right beside Costco. Does that better satisfy your pedantic needs? 

@domhnall if you read my earlier posts I have said that seeing the actual price of the Costco, that I did not blame you going there to fill and I also said that I would have done the same if I had the opportunity, which I don't for 2 reasons 1) is it is a subscription to get an account and then you still have to meet certain conditions, 2) my nearest Costco is about 20 miles away.

 

The coppers difference refers to normal main stream PFS which Costco does not fit that bill as most people cannot fill up there.

 

I really do wish that people would actually read and understand the context of what people write and not see everything that a non EV driver writes as being anti EV etc, as that is not the case, but it seems that is how most EV drivers react if anyone dares to ask a non EV question or try to get a point clarified.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Running out of Gasoline is always possible, but in an emergency like that, there is always the possibility of siphoning some Gasoline from other vehicles with full tanks in order to help a fellow neighbour escape the area, is such a thing even possible with an EV?

Charging another EV is entirely possible if vehicle can do V2L (vehicle-to-load). Most of S-Korean cars and Chinese cars can do this.

https://electriccarguide.co.uk/what-is-vehicle-to-load-v2l/

 

Just like fuel preparation for ICE, people would have either fled or prepared by topping up their energy reserves. I personally think you are overly melodramatic.

 

Tesla powerwall have storm watch built-in:

 

This is in the middle of storm's path, right now, some superchargers are still online:

 

Escaping from St Petersburg (directly in storm's path) towards mainland to largest city with normal condition is less than 300 miles away, many supercharger are online once out of worst area:

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

@Ootohere I might have been wrong about the neighbourhood, but his words indicated that was where he lives, and he never tried to correct that impression.

 

And the Florida, bit I agree they might have been doing all of those things, and then more than likely not, just as most EV drivers/owners over this side of the pond are not doing. There will always be some who are very clued-up on this sort of thing like @lol-lol and @wyx087 and yourself, but there are vast numbers who just treat it in the same fashion as they do any ICE vehicle and not go beyond home charging.

 

Running out of Gasoline is always possible, but in an emergency like that, there is always the possibility of siphoning some Gasoline from other vehicles with full tanks in order to help a fellow neighbour escape the area, is such a thing even possible with an EV?

 

Thanks for the compliment.  There is an element of extra complexity and jeopardy with being an EV earlier adopter but also a lot of "fun" learning the optimising of living with an EV.   Can be some massive cost savings, the sub 2 a mile energy costs is real and, whether entirely valid, us EVangelist get a warm glow in believe we are slowing down climate change.

 

I am not an absolute zealot on this.  Happy my son has the clio full hybrid, he sets off in EV mode, as the car management system dictates, ICE kicks in when it is needed for battery recharging and cabin heating using waste heat from the ICE, shame heat pumps are not fitted as standard on all car and I am sure the traction batteries will continue to increase, the new Superb hybrid has a 20 kwh making some 70 miles possible just in EV mode.

 

Even helped by sister pickout a newer car. She lives on Dartmoor, not much public charging out there and in an older house no drive to put a wallbox or safely use a granny cable so she got a T-ROC 1.5 TCI with cylinder deactivation. Very economical, wish it had hybrid but still a good car with fuel consumption and emissions. I am confident the future is pure EV, the pace of improvement in both EVs and EV infrastructure is processing at quite a good pace and personally I think the move to EVs with occur by it simply being the right economic move for the vast majority of drivers as well as firms needing logistical transport.  Your point out haves and have nots has merit and cheaper public charging should be a priority for all national government but it has to compete with many other worthy causes so is a difficult allocation exercise.  Hope to see you in a hybrid sometime and maybe a full EV in some years should we both be still here and not with the angels. 

 

Edited 11 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Thanks for the compliment.  There is an element of extra complexity and jeopardy with being an EV earlier adopter but also a lot of "fun" learning the optimising of living with an EV.   Can be some massive cost savings, the sub 2 a mile energy costs is real and, whether entirely valid, us EVangelist get a warm glow in believe we are slowing down climate change.

 

I am not an absolute zealot on this.  Happy my son has the clio full hybrid, he sets off in EV mode, as the car management system dictates, ICE kicks in when it is needed for battery recharging and cabin heating using waste heat from the ICE, shame heat pumps are not fitted as standard on all car and I am sure the traction batteries will continue to increase, the new Superb hybrid has a 20 kwh making some 70 miles possible just in EV mode.

 

Even helped by sister pickout a newer car. She lives on Dartmoor, not much public charging out there and in an older house no drive to put a wallbox or safely use a granny cable so she got a T-ROC 1.5 TCI with cylinder deactivation. Very economical, wish it had hybrid but still a good car with fuel consumption and emissions. I am confident the future is pure EV, the pace of improvement in both EVs and EV infrastructure is processing at quite a good pace and personally I think the move to EVs with occur by it simply being the right economic move for the vast majority of drivers as well as firms needing logistical transport.  Your point out haves and have nots has merit and cheaper public charging should be a priority for all national government but it has to compete with many other worthy causes so is a difficult allocation exercise.  Hope to see you in a hybrid sometime and maybe a full EV in some years should we both be still here and not with the angels. 

 

 I'm glad that you can see my genuine interest in EVs and I too feel that the future will be all electric however I cannot see it in all honesty within the stated time frame, I think it is being pushed too hard and fast while there are still many problems to be resolved, like infrastructure spread evenly across the country and proportional number of chargers to the adoption of EVs, as more are sold then number of chargers particular at key popular locations need to increase to ensure that any queue etc is kept to an absolute minimum and also resolve the position of those unable to home charge. More qualified people to work on them when they need repairs, at the moment it can be an absolute nightmare getting a car repaired in a timely manner. More needs to be done to the batteries safe and reliable, i.e., sealed correctly against water ingress as salt water can and has caused many bad fires and destroyed car, garage and house on many occasions. Battery tech needs to step up before mass adoption, by that I mean they need to find an alternative material that does go into thermal runaway and that needs to be done without all the overly complicated thermal management system as a failure in that system could enough to set a chain reaction off. We also need to find a more effective way to deal with any fires quickly and suppress them and then put them out once and for all before too much damage is done. We also need to speed up the safe recycling of batteries once they are beyond useful life, without creating massive piles of potential fire balls or toxic waste.

 

Previous governments around the world had all pushed diesel as the fuel of the future and didn't set a deadline for cessation of petrol cars, but they did offer all kinds of incentives to companies to convert over to diesel for their fleets, and we all know how that played out with many companies offering get compensation for people who were mis-sold diesel cars, just like they did people being mis-sold PPI on loans etc.

 

Without all those incentives, had they just left it to market forces then the pollution from diesels would not have any near as bad as they claim it is now, as most people would have preferred to keep with petrol for many reasons.

 

As I have said many times, I'm not anti EV, just anti the way that authorities are rushing headlong into the electric era even before we have fully investigated so many aspects of it, and we may well see another diesel gate or worse play out in the not too distant future