8 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

But still a concern in other regions less well served by public charging hubs.

There certainly is. My experience in Isle of Skye tells me there's still a way to go in remote areas up north. I certainly felt areas served by Chargeplace Scotland are lagging behind.

 

But remember, electricity is everywhere no matter how rural, thus EV charging is available everywhere with an extension lead. 

When I visited Isle of Skye, I sleep, car trickle charged via extension lead, simple.

 

Meanwhile, petrol stations:

 

Why must EV charging be more dense than petrol stations before they are considered enough? When EV can be recharged anywhere.

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

But still a concern in other regions less well served by public charging hubs.

Even in those areas pretty well served in the South and the Midlands, there will still be pockets where you would be hard-pressed to find a charger, especially at busy times.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

There certainly is. My experience in Isle of Skye tells me there's still a way to go in remote areas up north. I certainly felt areas served by Chargeplace Scotland are lagging behind.

 

But remember, electricity is everywhere no matter how rural, thus EV charging is available everywhere with an extension lead. 

When I visited Isle of Skye, I sleep, car trickle charged via extension lead, simple.

 

Meanwhile, petrol stations:

 

Why must EV charging be more dense than petrol stations before they are considered enough? When EV can be recharged anywhere.

 

In the Summer there are often stories in the news about tourists running out of petrol and diesel in these areas because of a lack of awareness that filling stations are rather thin on the ground

13 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Even in those areas pretty well served in the South and the Midlands, there will still be pockets where you would be hard-pressed to find a charger, especially at busy times.

In your experience?

 

Certainly not my experience over the summer.

 

There's so many hubs around here, if one is busy just go to the next one.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

In your experience?

 

Certainly not my experience over the summer.

 

There's so many hubs around here, if one is busy just go to the next one.

 

I waited 5 minutes at a tesla supercharger on the M6 4 years ago. So it does happen

And when I arrived at Stafford last week 3 out of 6 chargers were in use so I only had three to choose from.

 

Edited 6 November, 20241 yr by domhnall

2 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

In the Summer there are often stories in the news about tourists running out of petrol and diesel in these areas because of a lack of awareness that filling stations are rather thin on the ground

Indeed that is always a problem for some people in any location and time of year, but is also one that takes just seconds to resolve once rescue services are on the scene, open the fuel filler and pour a gallon of fossil juice into it, job done.

 

I once had to rescue a colleague who run out of diesel just as he exited Blackwall Tunnel in East London, slipped into the PFS, half a mile along the A13, £10 of diesel in a jerrycan and a funnel later, all solved and on his way again (I don't think he ever paid me the tenner either, oh well). 

Edited 6 November, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Well there is the tourist and locals route like Blaigowrie & chargers,

then you go up the A93 just 1 rapid in Braemar & if you go to Ballater no Rapid. If you head across the the Lecht you have 1 rapid at Toumintoul.

Braemar and Tomintoul can both be down so that leaves a few AC,s Braemar, Ballater, Lecht or Tomintoul, then Rapid & Fast charging in Grantown on Spey. 

Pretty crap if your  travelling across from Blairgowrie & Grantown on Spey maybe do some sightseeing to Mar Lodge, or Lochnagar etc. . 

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Well there is the tourist and locals route like Blaigowrie & chargers,

then you go up the A93 just 1 rapid in Braemar & if you go to Ballater no Rapid. If you head across the the Lecht you have 1 rapid at Toumintoul.

Braemar and Tomintoul can both be down so that leaves a few AC,s Braemar, Ballater, Lecht or Tomintoul, then Rapid & Fast charging in Grantown on Spey. 

Pretty crap if your  travelling across from Blairgowrie & Grantown on Spey maybe do some sightseeing to Mar Lodge, or Lochnagar etc. . 

Speaking about chargers, it seems the apparent shortage of them in Chelmsford is beginning to resolve itself now, my local Esso filling station, a couple of streets away is currently having some installed, judging by the space allocated to them, I'm guessing that it will be a total of 3, still to be confirmed.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Indeed that is always a problem for some people in any location and time of year, but is also one that takes just seconds to resolve once rescue services are on the scene, open the fuel filler and pour a gallon of fossil juice into it, job done.

A lot of diesels need priming first. Some are right Ba rds to do.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

 

1 minute ago, AGFalco said:

A lot of diesels need priming first. Some are right Ba rds to do.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

 

Never come across any cars that needed that, but I know that many of the big truck and bus engines do sometimes.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Speaking about chargers, it seems the apparent shortage of them in Chelmsford is beginning to resolve itself now, my local Esso filling station, a couple of streets away is currently having some installed, judging by the space allocated to them, I'm guessing that it will be a total of 3, still to be confirmed.

Seems the lack of EV charger perception is more a visibility problem then actual real problem.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Seems the lack of EV charger perception is more a visibility problem then actual real problem.

 

Zap map is unofficial default App but many of use Electroverse or the individual Gridserve, Ionity or the inbuilt Google 12 as I have in the Scenic.

 

None are perfect and it is not easy when there are 2,000 new charger being added each month on average.

 

Think a new status is needed ie working but limited to 100 A ie 38 or so kWs as I had a few days ago as I think the cable cooling had failed on the 350 kw ie circa 500 A capable charger which I presume could do 800v instead of just 400v as my EVs aritecture is.

 

If driving an EV on one main route from general area of 1 Capital City to another in the British isles was not simple for charging what hope is there.

Or the furthest North City to the furthest south. 

Trunk routes, or even off the main trunk routes.  L Drivers or those that do not do motorways.

Just  driving the length of the UK mainland south or north or north south, on or to the east or the west or points in between should be simple.

& maybe not twice as expensive as in an ICE vehicle for those just wanting to tap a credit or debit card without having subscriptions, deals, or any RFID cards and the likes.

 

 

 

Edited 7 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

If driving an EV on one main route from general area of 1 Capital City to another in the British isles was not simple for charging what hope is there.

Or the furthest North City to the furthest south. 

Trunk routes, or even off the main trunk routes.  L Drivers or those that do not do motorways.

Just  driving the length of the UK mainland south or north or north south, on or to the east or the west or points in between should be simple.

& maybe not twice as expensive as in an ICE vehicle for those just wanting to tap a credit or debit card without having subscriptions, deals, or any RFID cards and the likes.

 

 

 

but just how realistic is that? I do a fair bit of travelling around, and it helps me create youtube content too but later this month I need to go to Newport in Wales. It's about an 8 hour drive but knowing the M6 it will easily become 10 (5 to Bormingham became 7 both ways last week),the train is more than 7 hours and needs 4 changes so do you know what? I am flyign to Bristol with Easyjet and hiring a car to get to Newport. All for under £100. 

So yes, in theory being able to drive from the North to South coast is interesting, same as walking/cycling/ running between the two is an interesting possibility in theory but for most of us couch to 5k or the local park run is probably the most we will ever do (or more like couch to beer fridge)  

 

Edited 7 November, 20241 yr by domhnall

This talks about the topic of the day: 

 

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/why-the-uk-is-the-perfect-size-for-running-an-electric-car/

Quote

Everybody’s obsessed by how far any given electric car can go on a single charge, but in the UK are we missing the point?

You could argue that the UK is essentially perfect for EV adoption compared to most other countries also making the switch, given its relatively compact and dense layout compared to much larger countries like the USA or Australia, or even France.

Even if you go from one end of the UK to the other you can’t hit 1,000 miles without a diversion. The legendary Lands End Cornwall to John O’Groats Scotland journey (which people only really cover for charity events) is 837 miles.

To take a few more likely inter-city examples, Birmingham to Sheffield is 85 miles, London to Bristol is 117 miles, Cardiff to Dover is 233 miles and Leeds to

Glasgow 238 miles, according to the AA Route Planner."

 

UK is a small island, we don't need 600 miles range. 

17 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

UK is a small island, we don't need 600 miles range. 

Of course not, it's not as if anyone ever drives their car outside the UK or tows a caravan etc😃

35 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

This talks about the topic of the day: 

 

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/why-the-uk-is-the-perfect-size-for-running-an-electric-car/

 

UK is a small island, we don't need 600 miles range. 

But I believe a guaranteed 350 to 400 mile range, all weather, no jiggery-pokery, is a useful figure for EV manufacturers to aim at.

@domhnall the real EV thing is that many do not need to travel far, or have an EV that can go quite far on a charge. 

Does the job.

 

Then really that 150 mile range EV, or 200 mile range if lucky, but it is not Summer / Lucky season & when you get a call to go someplace in an emergency is a right PITA.

Someone has a few hours maybe to live, go visit them on their death bed. or family needs you to go look after the kids.

Unexpected stuff.

 

Car is not fully charged, so off to a charger, then on your way, usually you take your time, this time you are in a hurry and you just want on a charger and away.

You get there near empty, they have no charger, the 3 pin socket is no place near your car.

 

That is when we take the ICE vehicle if we have one. 

Like when you are feeling really crap but need to travel someplace in Scotland & it is where there still are not Commercial Chargers available.

Luckily fewer and fewer places. 

Edited 7 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

13 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@domhnall the real EV thing is that many do not need to travel far, or have an EV that can go quite far on a charge. 

Does the job.

 

Then really that 150 mile range EV, or 200 mile range if lucky, but it is not Summer / Lucky season & when you get a call to go someplace in an emergency is a right PITA.

Someone has a few hours maybe to live, go visit them on their death bed. or family needs you to go look after the kids.

Unexpected stuff.

 

Car is not fully charged, so off to a charger, then on your way, usually you take your time, this time you are in a hurry and you just want on a charger and away.

You get there near empty, they have no charger, the 3 pin socket is no place near your car.

 

That is when we take the ICE vehicle if we have one. 

Like when you are feeling really crap but need to travel someplace in Scotland & it is where there still are not Commercial Chargers available.

Luckily fewer and fewer places. 

Agreed, but if you can't afford to have a 2nd car all taxed and insured ready to jump in. This is why I say that currently the EV is not capable of being considered a replacement for an ICE, even with home charging for many people. 

 

To be a suitable replacement they need to be capable of getting fully charged in about 5 minutes and be able to find a charger easily, and resolve the problems associated with EV fires, then if the price is right, the barrier to their wide spread adoption is removed. 

There is on Tiktok an EV Fire in Arbroath about 3 weeks ago.

A Gold / Bronze Peugeot it looks like, at the road along to the prom. wall and grass embankment one side of the road.

2 Fire persons with hoses putting out the fire or controlling it in the line of parked cars.

 

I never know if an EV or a Hybrid, but likely one off these.

 

It always looks quite relaxed when people film these EV car fires that are not National or International News.   Looks easy to put out, the flats / houses not all destroyed.

 

This EV car fire is nothing to do with the very big fire in Arbroath on Bonefire Night this week only a few hundred yards away.

Set off by Fireworks....

 

 

Edited 7 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

But I believe a guaranteed 350 to 400 mile range, all weather, no jiggery-pokery, is a useful figure for EV manufacturers to aim at.

You are in luck  

https://ev-database.org/car/3034/Tesla-Model-3-Long-Range-RWD

~350 miles all weather. About same price as similar spec Passat. 

 

2 hours ago, Dieselgate said:

Of course not, it's not as if anyone ever drives their car outside the UK or tows a caravan etc😃

Towing is an edge case, of all my time on the road, I am very sure I've seen way less than 5% of cars actually towing something. 

 

Charging network over the channel tunnel is even better than UK, and charging in France is actually very cheap. 

 

Don't know about you, I certainly have zero problem driving to mainland Europe at drop of a hat. Zero planning needed. 

It matters how few tow, boats, gliders, caravans, transporters, trailers, generators etc, because eventually there are supposed to be only EV,s being First Registered for these private car owners to tow with. 

 

As far as how many go across the channel to drive from the UK, that might be more than tow caravans in the UK and for those that never go, then it matters not how many chargers there are across the water.

 

Like those that maybe never go more than 300 miles from home driving,

how many chargers around London does not matter if you live in Scotland.

A single car in row is not that much of a problem, but in car park where others are parked close, especially if they are also EVs then you have a massive problem. Look at all the videos of EVs when the battery is on fire and you will see the jets of fire shoot out from the sides, not yet seen one where they come out from the front or rear. With that in mind, imagine the average car park with cars on the left and right, often less than a metre away and you can see the problem. Add in the fact that more and more EVs are coming onto the roads, it might only be a few years away before there is a good chance of 70% of cars being EVs it is then that we will be seeing major problems when fire breaks out and events like those in Korea will be far more common. 

Edited 7 November, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Yes. Eventually towing will matter. Whether it is achieved by what ZEV tech I do not know. 

 

 

But that won't affect anyone until more than 10 years from now. We might even have re-usable space transport by then, who knows. 

 

For most people, just like driving long distances, towing isn't a regular thing. So it is entirely possible to rent a more suitable vehicle when the need arises. Why fixate on edge cases? 
 

 

 

Edit: EV are bad at crashing properly, it seems: 

 

Edited 7 November, 20241 yr by wyx087

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Towing is an edge case, of all my time on the road, I am very sure I've seen way less than 5% of cars actually towing something. 

Cold comfort if you are one of the 5%.

 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Don't know about you, I certainly have zero problem driving to mainland Europe at drop of a hat. Zero planning needed. 

Me neither. The difference is I would probably arrive at my destination a lot earlier.