1 hour ago, EnterName said:

The "rising population" is entirely artificial, Graham. The people of the UK realised years ago that the place was getting crowded so reduced their birth rate organically.

However the ridiculous Ponzi scheme we have allowed to grow has led the government to assume infinite immigration will solve our problems because GDP line goes up, so they've hosed us down with more immigrants than the country can cope with. The problem will continue to grow until the country boots-out the ridiculous liberals we've had running the country for the last few decades.

Now we are getting into dangerous territory and have strayed far away from the theme of the thread here and may invoke some sort of reaction from the moderators 👀👀

18 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Equally though, with the rising population, and the need to reduce shipping foodstuff around the globe, not to mention the pending trade wars that Trump is stoking the fires of, we also need that land to grow as much of our own food as we can, do we not? That is incompatible with solar generation in the fields. That can be done on the rooftops and does not rob us of the valuable growing capacity.   There are loads of solar farms around my area, and there is no way of growing crops at the same time as generating power, the panels are just too close to each other that to happen.

 

Solar is advancing at a rapid pace as are batteries, EVs and wind turbine design, the pace is truly incredible it seems to me.   Solar panels are expecting a breakthrough quite soon with the advent of perovskite solar panels which are closer to 50% efficient rather than the current sub 25% of silicon panels.

One would need half the panels.

 

Also the mounting of panels can change. Rather than just laying them static on the ground on can mount them on masts and use the land below.  When mounted on masts they can capture 40% more sunlight in a day.  The can adjust themselves to be more robust in high winds and go in to a passive position when solar not collectable.  Panel can become bi-directional ie collect light from both sides and add another 10% more efficiency.

 

So much less panels and land can be needed in the future but still provide all the solar we need. Like wing the plan seems to be to generate twice the solar energy that the UK needs on average so half can be put away for a rain, dark day, night.   

 

 

Edited 28 February, 20251 yr by lol-lol

Sheep can feed and shelter under solar panels.    Less productive is not non productive.   

35 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Sheep can feed and shelter under solar panels.    Less productive is not non productive.   

 

Fine for some livestock, but of very limited use for growing crops like wheat, root crops etc, difficult for machinery and very limited sunlight.

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Solar is advancing at a rapid pace as are batteries, EVs and wind turbine design, the pace is truly incredible it seems to me.   Solar panels are expecting a breakthrough quite soon with the advent of perovskite solar panels which are closer to 50% efficient rather than the current sub 25% of silicon panels.

One would need half the panels.

 

Also the mounting of panels can change. Rather than just laying them static on the ground on can mount them on masts and use the land below.  When mounted on masts they can capture 40% more sunlight in a day.  The can adjust themselves to be more robust in high winds and go in to a passive position when solar not collectable.  Panel can become bi-directional ie collect light from both sides and add another 10% more efficiency.

 

So much less panels and land can be needed in the future but still provide all the solar we need. Like wing the plan seems to be to generate twice the solar energy that the UK needs on average so half can be put away for a rain, dark day, night.   

 

Still very early days, which strangely enough is a phrase used repeatedly in the video and with all these new methods and compounds there may well be a hidden side yet to be discovered that will prevent full scale production on many levels still as yet undetermined. One of the reasons why I still think that the whole net-zero by 2030 is not doable, or even 2035. There will be many hurdles to overcome along the way and may well end up being scrapped, leaving the option of having ICE cars still on the table for a for some years while R&D continues looking for alternatives. 

2 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Still very early days, which strangely enough is a phrase used repeatedly in the video and with all these new methods and compounds there may well be a hidden side yet to be discovered that will prevent full scale production on many levels still as yet undetermined. One of the reasons why I still think that the whole net-zero by 2030 is not doable, or even 2035. There will be many hurdles to overcome along the way and may well end up being scrapped, leaving the option of having ICE cars still on the table for a for some years while R&D continues looking for alternatives. 

 

Sounds like Europe, particularly the EU, are happy to go down the Hybrid car route to say/ show they are doing something but also preserving their ICE vehicke industry.

 

The EU also put Anti Dumping duties on some solar equipment as well as the Countervailing duties on Chinese BEVs so they clearly put economic protectionism before climate goals.

 

As the UK has not opted for either such measures we, and similar markets, are getting even more trade flow of such goods from China which is propelling our EV market, now the biggest EV market in Europe and solar is also growing with massive double digit percentage growth with the quickly falling prices of pence per kw potential generating cost.

 

Massive UK growth of solar both on an industrial scale and on private installs driven by it becoming so cheap when supply prices are quite high and threatening to go higher.

 

13 hours ago, EnterName said:

Gibberish.

Well done. You've outdone yourself in creating a coherent argument (!) 

 

Zero effort in creating a counter argument must mean admitting validity of my point:

 

On 27/02/2025 at 09:21, wyx087 said:

Just pointing out your logic:

You've previously stated "it's difficult to do X, it's more difficult to do X+Y" means a desire to do cohesion.

Here, you've used same sentence structure: "it might be possible (doubt due to difficulty) to do X, it's more difficult to do X+Y".

Therefore, by your logic, you must be the one doing cohesion, getting people into doing X+Y.

 

Just an observation. "Changing like the wind" comes to mind. 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Dieselgate said:

You could probably improve on your analogy tbh!

No, people don't generally buy a car to cater for a 1 off occasion every few years (that may or may not happen) but grid peaks are more or less a daily occurrence and 'super peaks' in winter happen at the very least several times per year.

Yes time of use pricing can help to alleviate demand but ultimately you are never going to be able to flatten  it completely. Everyone wants to cook at around the same time every evening and we will always need the capability to be able to supply this.

Point taken for bad analogy. But I think you misunderstood my point. 

 

Tackle the problem from both sides:

 

We have already built for maximum peak demand but we are only using maximum demand for a small amount of time. I'm saying we could utilise those lower demand periods. Push those right up. There's so much capacity right there for non-time critical use-cases such as EV or home battery charging.

 

It is also very possible to completely flatten the demand. Everyone wants to cook around same time but what if everyone have home battery or flats have shared battery? It doesn't have to be big, ~3 kWh per household will be more than enough to completely erase the need for expensive peaking power plants. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant

Electric Vehicles UK (the company behind Fully Charged show) published a "Cost of Driving Electric" report:

https://transportandenergy.com/2025/02/27/evuk-launches-cost-of-driving-electric-report/

 

 

Quote

How will consumers save driving an EV?

For those who do save, the average saving across all scenarios we reviewed is approximately £5,850 over the ownership period.

Used EVs: £3,440 saved over five years (£690 per year)

New EVs: £7,785 saved over the lease or PCP term (more than £2,000 per year)

Savings are higher for consumers who can charge at home. However, even those without home charging can still save compared to an ICE vehicle by using a community charging service such as Co Charger. Many consumers who rely on public charging can still save money with an electric car, despite the higher cost of charging compared to refuelling an equivalent ICE vehicle. This is largely due to savings from salary sacrifice schemes and, in the used car market, the lower upfront cost of the vehicle

 

 

Report part funded by JOLT, a street-side charging network in London providing daily free 7 kWh by renting out the charger as advertising boards. I've used them on a few occasions:

 

On 05/01/2025 at 21:41, wyx087 said:

There's also free events. Christmas day Gridserve was free. I just had 6.9 kWh recharged for free at Jolt this afternoon. Left with 58%, got home with 59% after 24 miles drive to pick up a new toy.

 

@Graham Butcher  everything is fine for something's and not others.  A balance of stuff is required.  Negative on everything is an issue that gets things no place fast..  nimbus. Those that can not see the wood for the trees and want to build houses in the trees after cutting g then down 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher  everything is fine for something's and not others.  A balance of stuff is required.  Negative on everything is an issue that gets things no place fast..  nimbus. Those that can not see the wood for the trees and want to build houses in the trees after cutting g then down 

My point was that most of the crops we need to survive by, need sunlight in order to mature and produce the desired harvest. They need sunlight for the right level of photosynthesis to take place to produce the crop and in the case of fruit ripen it. Hence why plants grow tall and leggy as mum used to say, when they can't see enough sunlight in order to reach a height to get the sunlight. Solar farms are arranged to maximise the amount of sunlight hitting the panels, thus limited amount for critical crops. 

12 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Zero effort in creating a counter argument must mean admitting validity of my point:

Perhaps if you had the honesty to actually quote me rather than paraphrase me you might get a more considered response?

@Graham Butcher the real point is that very successfully there is farming crops and livestock .   Carse of Gowrie one of the first and biggest solar farms in Scotland. Stewart potatoes and the Graemes milk ice cream and crisps and there solar.  The water board in Perth and many many other sites in Scotland with solar and not land wasted or unproductive.   Plenty threads about it in the forum if you bother looking. 

For me the key thing is to keep top grade farming land for farming and only site solar on land that is either unsuitable for farming or has yields that are so low it's unproductive.

 

For me an example of getting it wrong is the proposed Lime Down solar park in Wiltshire which would be largely place on productive farming land.

 

Lime Down  Solar Park consultation

 

Lime Down Solar Park

59 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher the real point is that very successfully there is farming crops and livestock .   Carse of Gowrie one of the first and biggest solar farms in Scotland. Stewart potatoes and the Graemes milk ice cream and crisps and there solar.  The water board in Perth and many many other sites in Scotland with solar and not land wasted or unproductive.   Plenty threads about it in the forum if you bother looking. 

And there is plenty of examples of solar farms springing up on good arable land that has traditionally been used for crops, of which there are plenty of such locations around my home city.

Or as one Vlogger puts it, the pursuit of Net Zero trumps all sanity.

Edited 1 March, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

And there is plenty of examples of solar farms springing up on good arable land that has traditionally been used for crops, of which there are plenty of such locations around my home city.

Or as one Vlogger puts it, the pursuit of Net Zero trumps all sanity.

 

Farmers/ land owners will usually go for the best paid crop. If that crop is sunshine then they will go for some of that.

 

With the UK increasing population over the last decade and a half, more than 10M I gather, we will probably need to learn from countries like the Netherlands who produce so much from little land using green houses, poly tunnels etc. Look as bad if not worse than solar perhaps.

 

@Graham Butcher yes plenty examples.    Down south the citizens seem to think cheap electricity is their birth right.  If you had been putting up wind turbines and not messing about with getting the nuclear built and not expecting electricity from others countries / regions then maybe the Solar could be in waste ground or ex industrial if which there is plenty if used.  If build homes on that rather than on Green Belt.    All my life there had been adverts and schemes to insulate homes.   Yet we are still 60 years on building crap properties and with poor building regs in England.  And somehow people in there old age are cold.   Have they been someplace for 60 years where they missed out on insulating properties? 

Edited 1 March, 20251 yr by Ootohere

7 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Farmers/ land owners will usually go for the best paid crop. If that crop is sunshine then they will go for some of that.

 

With the UK increasing population over the last decade and a half, more than 10M I gather, we will probably need to learn from countries like the Netherlands who produce so much from little land using green houses, poly tunnels etc. Look as bad if not worse than solar perhaps.

 

Plenty of that already happening here.

11 hours ago, EnterName said:

Perhaps if you had the honesty to actually quote me rather than paraphrase me you might get a more considered response?

This is not considered honestly quoting??

 

screenshot of my post:

Right here:

 

Honestly Briskodians... Can we give it a rest with these petty arguments and reports.

Play nice or I'll have no choice but to lock the topic.

Imagine identifying this charger at Lidl in Worcester as your last chance of charging before running out of power, only to find when you get there, bleeding thieves have robbed the cable?

 

 

20 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Imagine identifying this charger at Lidl in Worcester as your last chance of charging before running out of power, only to find when you get there, bleeding thieves have robbed the cable?

 

 

 

Loads of the DC public chargers around the Worcester have had their charging wires cut, I think the figure must be several dozen.

 

Perhaps we will see more sites with untethered chargers.  I am quite happy to charge at 22kWs much of the time and use my own cable.

 

The service stations seem to be OK.  It seem the quieter sites, not 24 hour etc.

 

They need better lighting, security etc.

 

Edited 3 March, 20251 yr by lol-lol

Saw my first 25-plate car yesterday, it was an EV. A Peugeot E-3008 charging at Aldi (probably first ever charge)

Found a few interesting new graph for my data from about 2.5 years driving the MY LR AWD:

 

 

But keep in mind there is lower number of samples for -5, 0 and 30c.  35c is 0% so I've cropped out that column.

 

Also an interesting short vs long trip consumption (efficiency) comparison, I've not looked through source code to see what count as short and what is long:

 

 

Basically, looks like it is telling me ideal conditions are at around 30-50 mph in 10-30c.

At 0c and driving at 70mph (when range actually matters), there is a 25% reduction in range compared to at 30c.

At normal winter temperature of 5c around here, 70mph, there is 18% reduction in range compared to at 30c.

 

This is fuelly plot of all my fuel ups with 2.0 TDI Skoda Octavia. Data are not as detailed as from Tesla, but we can see there is around 20% reduction in efficiency between winter (5-10c around here) and summer.

 

 

I think people unfairly talk about EV poor winter efficiency, often forgetting diesel suffer more efficiency losses.

Sadly there are reports of a child having died & another injured when a BMW electric car has struck them after crashing through a fence and onto a sports / rugby pitch.

The story will be coming out about what happened and why.

That the car is an EV and is powerful and fast accelerating and did not come from a Public road but from a car park has been said in the news.

Time will tell if that has anything to do with it.

I do hope that the Vloggers where ever they are in the world wait for for the Why, Where, How etc to come out.

BBC article says a man arrested at the scene on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

Latest Octopus "GO" tariff bill shows my average cost of lecky is 13p per kWh which is across the 5 hours of cheap ie 8.5 p per kWh and the 19 hours of more expensive 25.5 p per kWh Day time lecky.

GO tariff users are still waiting for notification what rates and what time periods we are are going to get for Q2 of 2025 and we are hoping Octopus will respond to Eon incredible 6.7 p per kWh for 7 hours rate the have published.

On the car front the Zoe is due to end its PCP a bit later this year and I was fairly sure I was going for the Renault 5 after so many rave reviews ie Car of the Year 2025 and all that jazz. Well say the 5 a few days ago and thought not for me,for the money too compromised especially for me and my tall family members. Albeit it is only as a back up for the Scenic.

So going to try the Dacia Spring. £10K cheaper, amazing finance deals, better screen in the Extreme trim than the R5, one can get a frunk as a fitment for cables etc, hate digging cables out of the underfloor in the Scenic and Zoe when the charge ports are at the front. Lots of negative and positive reports on the Spring.