@lol-lol The Grampian House Warehouse location is perfect for nipping off for a Thai Oil Massage.

13 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Those gases aren't actually released into the atmosphere... they area recirculated back to the storage tanks via a vacuum system incorporated into the filler nozzle.

You really need to stop making things up, or at least do some research.

The recirc system is not perfect and whilst the low pressure recirc system gets much of the gas it is not perfect and some hydrocarbons get past this system which has improved things but is not 100%.

Quick check shows data which state 85 to 95% recovery.

Suggest you take some of you own advice, possibly get a science degree to add to your arts degree ?

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by lol-lol

20 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol The Grampian House Warehouse location is perfect for nipping off for a Thai Oil Massage.

A great stop for doing the NC500.

Is true about sow cars, caravans and motor homes crawling along the route spoiling the driving pleasure sometimes, oft ?

There are some good picturesque roads in Wales too, and Cornwall and Ireland, true for Gaul and Basque too, odd most great drives and I the Celtic areas !!

15 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

I am not the biggest fan of Dave Takes it on but some salient points here for people to plan for the future.

The decline in fossil fuels, at least for motive power rather than plastic etc, could be more like a very steep slope rather than a gradual one. 2025 appears to be peak oil, gas, coal production and looking like quickly downwards from here. China leading the way of course and expect to see even more shadowy ways Russian oil makes its way to European markets.

Dave does make some good points, and also there are some logical reasons for the decline in diesel sales that he does not appear to take into account, such as a lot of new car sales are PHEV, with petrol engines. I saw sales figures the other day that debunked one person's claim that diesel sales were in decline, so who do we believe?

My Sister in Law, recently tried to buy a new Toyota ICE car and the only way that she could do that was to buy a hybrid, self charging one.

However, with that enclosed charging station, he does exaggerate, a carbon monoxide death trap, really! I used to work as an electrical engineer for the National Bus company and have spent many hours inside a huge bus garage on cold, frosty mornings with up to 100 diesel buses ticking over to get them up to temperature before they went into service with the public. It was an enclosed space, and it was impossible to see the length of 2 buses, 60ft as the air was thick grey exhaust gasses everywhere and your eyes would stream and sting from the fumes. I'm still here to tell the tale and so are the others who, like me, would go and them started before the crews arrive to take them out on service.

The people in that shopping / charging centre had better hope that no car, electric or ICE catches fire while in there as the fumes as the smoke will completely fill that in minutes and most car fires, both electric and ICE are far more likely to be the interior on fire in which lots of Cyanide gas will be the end result, deadly poison, just the same as both types of interiors share common materials.

To show how much smoke and gas is released, watch this short video carried of a test carried out in fire research establishment where they also burn new ICE and BEV cars and conduct tests on them to find out what are the hazards etc.

There used to be a large British fire test lab in Borehamwood, Herts, I used to go a lot in my working years, it backed onto one of the film studios where some James Bond films were shot.

@lol-lol The nearest the NC500 is from this location in Aberdeen is over 100 miles by road.

Handy for the North East 250.

PS

Aberdeen & Aberdeenshire Council Public EV chargers now about the most expensive Council Chargers in Scotland and still pathetic for provision and maintenance.

At least there is TESLA Supercharging in Aberdeen. (Also Perth, Dundee, Inverness, & Aviemore.)

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by Evolution13

54 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Dave does make some good points, and also there are some logical reasons for the decline in diesel sales that he does not appear to take into account, such as a lot of new car sales are PHEV, with petrol engines. I saw sales figures the other day that debunked one person's claim that diesel sales were in decline, so who do we believe?

My Sister in Law, recently tried to buy a new Toyota ICE car and the only way that she could do that was to buy a hybrid, self charging one.

However, with that enclosed charging station, he does exaggerate, a carbon monoxide death trap, really! I used to work as an electrical engineer for the National Bus company and have spent many hours inside a huge bus garage on cold, frosty mornings with up to 100 diesel buses ticking over to get them up to temperature before they went into service with the public. It was an enclosed space, and it was impossible to see the length of 2 buses, 60ft as the air was thick grey exhaust gasses everywhere and your eyes would stream and sting from the fumes. I'm still here to tell the tale and so are the others who, like me, would go and them started before the crews arrive to take them out on service.

The people in that shopping / charging centre had better hope that no car, electric or ICE catches fire while in there as the fumes as the smoke will completely fill that in minutes and most car fires, both electric and ICE are far more likely to be the interior on fire in which lots of Cyanide gas will be the end result, deadly poison, just the same as both types of interiors share common materials.

To show how much smoke and gas is released, watch this short video carried of a test carried out in fire research establishment where they also burn new ICE and BEV cars and conduct tests on them to find out what are the hazards etc.

There used to be a large British fire test lab in Borehamwood, Herts, I used to go a lot in my working years, it backed onto one of the film studios where some James Bond films were shot.

Large ie 6m by 6m at least fire blankets should be on hand at all EV charging sites to put over the EV. Not so easy for just one person to do rather than a two person operation. Some thought needed on how to deploy such fire blankets. Perhaps some system like those fast deploy tents.

I have fire blankets near my larger lithium batteries just in case.

If filling petrol and diesel cars were safe from fuel fumes then why do we get shouted across the speakers from the kiosk staff for using mobile phones or smoking on the forecourt.

Being an ex diesel engine apprentice, marine main engine, generators i have snorted more than my fair share of diesel fumes. Like with asbestosis, what coal miners got, smokers etc, it is a lottery whether one get cancer abd other diseases from these poisons, luck of the draw.

Busy week ahead with EVs, climate change after hurricane Melissa and COP 30 coming up. Wake up call for everyone !

1 minute ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol The nearest the NC500 is from this location in Aberdeen is over 100 miles by road.

Handy for the North East 250.

Yes of course. Sometimes get Aberdeen and Inverness locations wrong.

Be interested to hear what Scots think of Westminster using that Highlands base for asylum seekers ?

Think my dad might have done his infantry training from there. I did my Officer character training in the Cullen Ridge in Skye. As soon to retire must reacquaint myself with an epic car journey to the Highlands.

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by lol-lol

@lol-lol Re the Barracks in Inverness.

Turns out needs £1 million spent, but asbestos needs removing, and boilers and much else.

No planning applications made. Inverness Council or Scottish Government not part of discussions.

There are asylum seekers already in hotels.

The Council had workers remove flags put up near the barracks.

There are Military Families live near the barracks that have voiced concerns about when the member of the armed forces is away on tour.

Using Fort George would likely cause as much controversy.

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by Evolution13

2 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol Re the Barracks in Inverness.

Turns out needs £1 million spent, but asbestos needs removing, and boilers and much else.

No planning applications made. Inverness Council or Scottish Government not part of discussions.

There are asylum seekers already in hotels.

The Council had workers remove flags put up near the barracks.

There are Military Families live near the barracks that have voiced concerns about when the member of the armed forces is away on tour.

Using Fort George would likely cause as much controversy.

Million is peanuts compared to the recent total of £3.6B spent on asylum accommodation.

@lol-lol £1 million is peanuts.

But they have just advertised for Contractors and that is not including asbestos removal which could take years.

Then you need local contractors because if you bring them from the South there is accommodation needed which in the Inverness / Highland region is in short supply.

There are major construction projects worth £billions under way and with planning approval.

Rig decommissioning, turbine fabricating, Green Free Port / Hydrogen, Dry Docks etc etc.

Global Companies have big investments going into Nigg & Ardersier & elsewhere.

There is a couple of major local based companies which can actually deal with the construction needs and employees.

Some Civil Servants have as usual c-cked up big style.

They should have looked at how long the Inverness Castle development project has taken.

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by Evolution13

6 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

I think we need to also take account of the negative effects on the economy of banning ICE sooner than many owners can make the change to EV (both for financial and practical reasons such as no driveway parking).

Practical reasons, I can understand. Thankfully there is still 20% cars that can be not full ZEV after 2030, for people who REALLY can't get any charging or must do mega miles daily.

Financial reasons? Second hand cars are always available. EV's are very slowly coming into the budget segment, example such as Renault 5 for £20k and Ford Puma EV being cheaper than petrol versions: https://www.speakev.com/threads/are-bevs-getting-more-expensive.193933/?post_id=3840652#post-3840652

As previously mentioned, public rapid charging with membership are cheaper than some diesel and most petrol.

6 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

It's a trade off between damaging the economy and creating hardships due to financial reasons, or damaging the climate and creating hardships due to health reasons - neither are particularly attractive options

I agree it's a trade off, that's why we aren't seeing 100% ZEV mandate in 2030.

I respect both of your opinion. I also wish to say it is my opinion that the ZEV mandate is borderline not fast enough. This is the thing with politics, we can all have different opinions, there is no one truth for everything.

The only thing I CANNOT stand is posters spreading misinformation and FUD.

26 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Practical reasons, I can understand. Thankfully there is still 20% cars that can be not full ZEV after 2030, for people who REALLY can't get any charging or must do mega miles daily.

Financial reasons? Second hand cars are always available. EV's are very slowly coming into the budget segment, example such as Renault 5 for £20k and Ford Puma EV being cheaper than petrol versions: https://www.speakev.com/threads/are-bevs-getting-more-expensive.193933/?post_id=3840652#post-3840652

As previously mentioned, public rapid charging with membership are cheaper than some diesel and most petrol.

I agree it's a trade off, that's why we aren't seeing 100% ZEV mandate in 2030.

I respect both of your opinion. I also wish to say it is my opinion that the ZEV mandate is borderline not fast enough. This is the thing with politics, we can all have different opinions, there is no one truth for everything.

The only thing I CANNOT stand is posters spreading misinformation and FUD.

Indeed my Renault 5 i am due to pick up this week I just a nidge over £20k but i get most of the amount on 0% for 25 months so in real terms it will be less than £20k for the European Car of the Year.

A few compromises as the pop green 💚 is the free colour and the very nice pop yellow is £800 addition, ouch.

This current basd spec comes with just a 40/43 kwh so nearly 200 mile range in dawdle mode but if one wang it at the uk national speed plus limit one will not get much over 100 miles which will horify petrol heads but those of use to living with EVs with the smaller battery options can live with.

There is going to be a Renault 5 FIVE which will be even cheaper ie 95 hp, no DC fast charging that will be about 23k Euros ie under £20k, £19k maybe with a bit of haggling, same 40/43 kwh battery as my R5.

Hyundai Inster is a good machine and good value. BYDs little EVs god value but will UK continue not apply Countervailing import duty and then there is the very cheap MGs, if one is ok with their reliability rating.

Lots of choice and brilliant cheap running costs.

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by lol-lol

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

The recirc system is not perfect and whilst the low pressure recirc system gets much of the gas it is not perfect and some hydrocarbons get past this system which has improved things but is not 100%.

Quick check shows data which state 85 to 95% recovery.

Suggest you take some of you own advice, possibly get a science degree to add to your arts degree ?

He he .. my 'arts degree' was Engineering... Of all types... I've probably forgotten more than you've learnt from your multiple jobs.

Ps I never said the system was 100% perfect but even at 85 to 95% you'd struggle to smell the fumes and as you imply

Anyhow onwards and upwards eh?

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by skomaz

12 minutes ago, skomaz said:

He he .. my 'artsvdegree' was Engineering... Of all types... I've probably forgotten more than you've learnt from your multiple jobs.

Ps I never said the system was 100% perfect but even at 85 to 95% you'd struggle to smell the fumes and as you imply

Anyhow onwards and upwards eh?

Onwards and upwards indeed

My work with central government, Department of Transport and HMCE, HMRC probably pale into insignificance with you work with the local council, quite so, well pointed out.

Any road, back to EVs rather than Swifts, MX5 etc .....

7 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Indeed my Renault 5 i am due to pick up this week I just a nidge over £20k but i get most of the amount on 0% for 25 months so in real terms it will be less than £20k for the European Car of the Year.

A few compromises as the pop green 💚 is the free colour and the very nice pop yellow is £800 addition, ouch.

This current basd spec comes with just a 40/43 kwh so nearly 200 mile range in dawdle mode but if one wang it at the uk national speed plus limit one will not get much over 100 miles which will horify petrol heads but those of use to living with EVs with the smaller battery options can live with.

There is going to be a Renault 5 FIVE which will be even cheaper ie 95 hp, no DC fast charging that will be about 23k Euros ie under £20k, £19k maybe with a bit of haggling, same 40/43 kwh battery as my R5.

Hyundai Inster is a good machine and good value. BYDs little EVs god value but will UK continue not apply Countervailing import duty and then there is the very cheap MGs, if one is ok with their reliability rating.

Lots of choice and brilliant cheap running costs.

Why would it horrify petrol heads?? I honestly don't know anyone who objects to anyone getting and running an EV, if that floats your boat and suits your requirements then I, for one, am really pleased for you. It's still a free country, I hope, and as such you should be free to buy whatever your heart desires, is anyone going to deny that has always been my stance?

Now imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and there was a thread called "The truth about ICE cars" and the people with ICE cars were constantly posting things about how good their cars were and at the same rubbishing anyone with an EV, and it was deemed that EVs were from a political point of view, to be the enemy and sales of new EVs were being banned?

How would you all react if the positions were to be reversed, that's the acid question here, I think.

There is also nothing wrong or weird about what you call petrol heads taking more than a passing interest in the new technology, is there? This is what I and a lot of others who, while not having an EV, are doing.

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Why would it horrify petrol heads?? I honestly don't know anyone who objects to anyone getting and running an EV, if that floats your boat and suits your requirements then I, for one, am really pleased for you. It's still a free country, I hope, and as such you should be free to buy whatever your heart desires, is anyone going to deny that has always been my stance?

Now imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and there was a thread called "The truth about ICE cars" and the people with ICE cars were constantly posting things about how good their cars were and at the same rubbishing anyone with an EV, and it was deemed that EVs were from a political point of view, to be the enemy and sales of new EVs were being banned?

How would you all react if the positions were to be reversed, that's the acid question here, I think.

There is also nothing wrong or weird about what you call petrol heads taking more than a passing interest in the new technology, is there? This is what I and a lot of others who, while not having an EV, are doing.

I love petrol cars, even diesel ones but they are killing huge numbers of people and fuelling climate change.

I chose to be an Engineering Officer in the Merchant Navy, worked on 20,000 hp main propulsion diesel engines as well as 1000 hp disel generators. Studied thermodynamic in my Engineering cadetship as well as at honours degree level.

But the Internal combustion engine has had its day, or even century, and decades, at that was a few years ago now and time to move on and try and save the world else hurricanes like Malissa will just get worse and worse. I hope COP 30 will see a leap forward.

Now Ethopia has there new hydroelectric dam they have sensible stopped importing of most ICE cars. Citizens should buy EVs and use the abundant and cheap electricity.

STOP BURNING STUFF !!!

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by lol-lol

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Being an ex diesel engine apprentice, marine main engine, generators i have snorted more than my fair share of diesel fumes. Like with asbestosis, what coal miners got, smokers etc, it is a lottery whether one get cancer abd other diseases from these poisons, luck of the draw.

Nowt to do with luck but everything to do with concentration and exposure levels. I've done testing and risk assessments etc. for contaminated sites and the like. Read up you might learn something... 😉

41 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Onwards and upwards indeed

My work with central government, Department of Transport and HMCE, HMRC probably pale into insignificance with you work with the local council, quite so, well pointed out.

Any road, back to EVs rather than Swifts, MX5 etc .....

Very little with the local council actually. Mostly private sector consulting with major clients such as National Grid, water companies, Manchester Airport Group, Ports of Jersey, Royal Mail, Environment Agency, British Steel, National Highways plus stuff I can't tell you about and the like.

Proper stuff not your messing about with boats and spreadsheets etc. 😉

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by skomaz

15 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Very little with the local council actually. Mostly private sector consulting with major clients such as National Grid, water companies, Manchester Airport Group, Ports of Jersey, Royal Mail, Environment Agency, British Steel, National Highways plus stuff I can't tell you about and the like.

Proper stuff not your messing about with boats and spreadsheets etc. 😉

Only a few years on boats, if you should call a 100,000 tonne bulk carrier a boat.

Apart from Department of Transport and HMCE for a decade was then head hunted by pwc, the world lagest Accountancy and Consultancy firm. Then UK largest customs software firm and now one of the top 3, depends how you measure it, international logistics firms.

It is great though to do diverse work and be rewarded with a six figured salary after all the study and experience.

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by lol-lol

19 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Very little with the local council actually. Mostly private sector consulting with major clients such as National Grid, water companies, Manchester Airport Group, Ports of Jersey, Royal Mail, Environment Agency, British Steel, National Highways plus stuff I can't tell you about and the like.

Proper stuff not your messing about with boats and spreadsheets etc. 😉

Ditto here as well, but we still know nothing, apparently 😉

You must it seems have had or driven an EV before you can comment, an engineering background and majority of ones working life don't hack it.

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by Graham Butcher

53 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Why would it horrify petrol heads?? I honestly don't know anyone who objects to anyone getting and running an EV, if that floats your boat and suits your requirements then I, for one, am really pleased for you. It's still a free country, I hope, and as such you should be free to buy whatever your heart desires, is anyone going to deny that has always been my stance?

Now imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and there was a thread called "The truth about ICE cars" and the people with ICE cars were constantly posting things about how good their cars were and at the same rubbishing anyone with an EV, and it was deemed that EVs were from a political point of view, to be the enemy and sales of new EVs were being banned?

How would you all react if the positions were to be reversed, that's the acid question here, I think.

There is also nothing wrong or weird about what you call petrol heads taking more than a passing interest in the new technology, is there? This is what I and a lot of others who, while not having an EV, are doing.

My cars are not killing people, ICE cars are. Might be only a few tens of thousands of shortened lives in the uk but it is millions throughout the world India and other large Asian etc cities.

My cars just hum along, playing their Jean Michelle Jarre low speed warning, no tail pipe emissions with NOX triggering asthma attacks.

Every time someone in an ICE car turns the ignition key, pushes the power button it it is another little nail in our future on forwarding the climate crisis which our children and grandchildren will inherit. They will not thank us.

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by lol-lol

16 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Ditto here as well, but we still know nothing, apparently 😉

You must it seems have had or driven an EV before you can comment, an engineering background and majority of ones working life don't hack it.

Also follow government policy, last shower and this one, and take advantage of the tax incentives that they and many governtments offer to accelerate the transition from ICE to EV !

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by lol-lol

33 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

It is great though to do diverse work and be rewarded with a six figured salary after all the study and experience.

Indeed...

Some people don't willy wave with thier heads up our arses all the time though. 👍

Anyhow enough of that... Now back to EVs

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by skomaz

13 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Indeed...

Some of us don't willy wave with our heads up our arses all the time though. 👍

Anyhow enough of that... Now back to EVs

And with EV Salary sacrifice, as with pension Salary Sacrifice, one can get ones Gross Pay under 100k or even £50k, and avoid those higher rates of tax and loss of tax free allowance. Play the governments tax game and its win win !

Tax planning is for everyone, Duke of Westminster, well one of them, said that.

Head screwed on, not up ones ass, means a more comfortable life for us and our families as well as being a good citizen and being in harmony with what previous and current government want us to do to be in tune.

Edited 1 November, 20251 Nov by lol-lol

I give up... Some people are just completely tone deaf...