the truth about electric cars

[lol-lol]

12 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

When it comes Porsche I'm not sure if turbo means anything more than just being a way to distinguish one model from another, it might not have a turbo. IIRC the 911 range has many versions and some have the turbo in their name but I think they don't have one fitted? 

 

It was rhetorical.   Porsche use the term "Turbo" just to state it is a performance version, no exhaust blown compressor, no supercharger just immensely powerful electric motors and battery packs.

  

[lol-lol]

14 minutes ago, @Lee said:

Lots of things have been suffixed with 'Turbo' since as far back as the 80's when they began to become more common on cars.
Turbo oven cleaners, Turbo washing machines etc etc. 

 

Charles Algernon Parsons, decades ahead of is time........  (even though named Algernon)...........

 

 

[wyx087]

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

@wyx087Still missing the point, anyway, back then electricity was indeed a luxury that only the rich could afford, but equally so was a car, it took Henry Ford to change things around and that was well after the 1870s, some 38 years before the model T was introduced with its petrol engine and made cars more affordable. 

What point would that be? 
 

If your example is about affordable, then I’m sorry to say green hydrogen will never be as cheap as powering directly with battery. Battery powered cars will always be cheaper to run by the simple fact it’s more efficient. 
 

[Ootohere]

Anyway up at Kishorn, Nigg, Aberdeen and other ports and sites they will use green hydrogen for lorries, plant and various vehicles as they ramp up hydrogen production from the plentiful electricity.    If Aberdeen council is paying too much for fueling cars then they will no doubt be pulled up on the that.  The Tories MP,s could be the very people to do that. 

[Graham Butcher]

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

What point would that be? 
 

If your example is about affordable, then I’m sorry to say green hydrogen will never be as cheap as powering directly with battery. Battery powered cars will always be cheaper to run by the simple fact it’s more efficient. 
 

The point is and was, that there may be more ways than the one currently being offered towards Net Zero and that we should not ignore the other possible solutions. Ever stopped to think that there may be more to the push to electric than meets the eye over other ideas? Maybe none of the others would offer big oil and energy companies the same revenue possibilities and so have successfully lobbied governments??

 

Electric is more efficient at the point of use, but the user will probably never get to see the trail of destruction and human cost that the acquisition of the minerals used to make the batteries, leaves behind.

 

I know I have used this term before, but it holds true, only time will tell the truth

[Ootohere]

The shale bings have almost gone. The coal mines and other mines are not cleaned up but looks like will now be used for thermal energy.   The open cast mines are being cleaned up. The nuclear still has to be, reactors and nuclear deterrents reactors.         What a bunch of mucky pups the population have been for the past century and longer.     All while getting cheapish energy...

[Graham Butcher]

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Charles Algernon Parsons, decades ahead of is time........  (even though named Algernon)...........

 

 

I watched this very video just a few weeks ago and if it wasn't for people like Charles Algernon Parsons with the courage, the guts and finances to press on after his attempt failed and his brave attempt at changing the Admiralty's reluctance to have another look at his invention than there is a good chance that ships could have been powered like this one for much longer then they were.

 

  

 

[J.R.]

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That's why I dont shut my mind to new ideas. 

 

The laws of thermodynamics are not new ideas except perhaps to you 😃

 

[wyx087]

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

The point is and was, that there may be more ways than the one currently being offered towards Net Zero and that we should not ignore the other possible solutions. Ever stopped to think that there may be more to the push to electric than meets the eye over other ideas? Maybe none of the others would offer big oil and energy companies the same revenue possibilities and so have successfully lobbied governments??

 

Electric is more efficient at the point of use, but the user will probably never get to see the trail of destruction and human cost that the acquisition of the minerals used to make the batteries, leaves behind.

 

I know I have used this term before, but it holds true, only time will tell the truth

For the longest time, including all through last page, I had pushed green hydrogen as a very important method of excess renewable energy storage. I don't think anyone is overlooking or ignoring other possible solutions. But the solution must be suitable for the problem. BEV makes is the perfect solution for transport for vast majority of people. There will always be edge cases, similarly cars are not the definitive answer to all "getting around" problems.

 

The mineral extraction exploitation problem for batteries are a speckle in the imperialistic exploitation of global resources all throughout history. Oil industry is still at it, but somehow battery material is a problem now. All forgetting many EV's today don't even use rare earth materials such as cobalt.

 

Also conveniently forgetting that battery recycling will eventually happen when there is enough financial incentive: https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/840/electric-car-battery-recycling-all-you-need-to-know Battery and renewables create circular economy, burning of stuff for energy does not.

 

Funny you should mention "big oil", I'm sure you are fully aware the amount of efforts big oil puts in to stir up FUD against climate change and EV. This book is a must read. Currently they are following the same playbook for climate change and EV, as tobacco industry to the letter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt

 

This video explains the "new deniers" and how similar it is to the tobacco tactics used.

The one thing we don't have is time to wait. The latter part of that video talks about impacts of giving in to denials.

 

 

[J.R.]

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

 

 

I cant seem to delete the misquote above, only the text, please ignore it.

 

9 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

In the experiment on Dec. 5, about two megajoules (a unit of energy) went into the reaction and about three megajoules came out, said Marvin Adams, Deputy Administrator for Defense Programs at the National Nuclear Security Administration. “A gain of 1.5,” Adams said.

 

Was this really energy being created from nothing or was it the release of latent energy like nuclear power or a simple reversible aircon unit?

 

Even solar energy is not being created from nothing or an infinite source, granted its infinite in our timescales but so was once thought to be coal, oil and even fish according to my father when I was lovesick!

Edited 11 March by J.R.

[Graham Butcher]

@J.R. No the laws of thermodynamics are not new to me at all but almost every day we actually learn something new that we never knew before and so things change as time advances, so does our knowledge, reference my comment about the development of the nuclear bombs and then peacetime applications for nuclear fission. 

 

As to the misquote, I know that is a real pain not being able to undo something, but what I have discovered is that if you do make a mistake, and it is at the start of a new post you're making, you can just close down the application, and then re-open it and the program does not automatically save the event, so you can start with a clean slate again.👍

[Graham Butcher]

@wyx087 I know all about how the tobacco industry, big oil, big pharmacy etc operate and all the FUD they stir up, it is claimed that the Stop Oil movement is funded by big oil and it is sometimes very difficult to decipher the truth at times, even down to the TFCS who claim that they are not backed by the government, but it seems that is not strictly correct, allegedly. We know that the government bends the rules whenever it suits them, and we only to look at the revelations being unveiled in the way they handled the pandemic and also the dreaded "B" event.

 

Like I said, all will be revealed in the fullness of time, either way, the truth will eventually be revealed, good or bad.

Edited 11 March by Graham Butcher

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Was this really energy being created from nothing or was it the release of latent energy like nuclear power or a simple reversible aircon unit?

 

Energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed from one form to another as you're probably aware and what I believe you are saying. 

[J.R.]

Tried that twice, problem was I had already posted it before seeing that it included something that I had not (intentionally) quoted, thereafter I could remove the text but not the quote box.

[wyx087]

You need to go out to your own text entry area imminently under the quote box and press backspace twice from there.

 

This forum uses a strange software, different to all others. It's got a lot of quirks, good and bad.

[Graham Butcher]

8 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Tried that twice, problem was I had already posted it before seeing that it included something that I had not (intentionally) quoted, thereafter I could remove the text but not the quote box.

Yeah, been there a few times myself I don't know if there is a method of doing that maybe, someone more knowledgeable could enlighten us.

 

I only plucked up the courage to try out the multiquote feature the other day, and luckily it worked. Some of the other forums I belong to actually have a preview option so you can see what the final post will look like before you commit to it, that is something I'd love to see here as well?

 

I'd also like to try the "spoiler" feature but I can't find any information about you use that either.

Edited 11 March by Graham Butcher

[Graham Butcher]

2 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

You need to go out to your own text entry area imminently under the quote box and press backspace twice from there.

 

This forum uses a strange software, different to all others. It's got a lot of quirks, good and bad.

So that will delete the quote box?

[Graham Butcher]

@wyx087 So it does I just tried it, thanks so now J.R. and myself know how do that, thanks

[xman]

Probably already known and maybe someone already posted earlier

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/evs-have-one-third-less-range-than-advertised-magazine-test-finds/ar-BB1jIqLW

 

Tip: if the "Expand Article" button is not displayed under the "Continue reading in the App" button then just reload the page and it should re-appear. No need to use the MSN app

Edited 11 March by xman

[Graham Butcher]

1 minute ago, xman said:

Probably already known and maybe someone already posted earlier

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/evs-have-one-third-less-range-than-advertised-magazine-test-finds/ar-BB1jIqLW

Yes, I think someone has already posted this or similar before. Nothing new in that, even ICE manufacturers inflate their claims, although I'm not aware of any having lawsuits against them except for Tesla who has or is facing a such an event over the perceived poor ranges that some owners are getting. That maybe because the response is so quick to the right foot actions that drivers are being over enthusiastic with the blistering performance on tap that they are just expecting to get that performance with no impact on the range?

[@Lee]

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

So that will delete the quote box?

Test. 

 

Not on a mobile. 

Edited 11 March by @Lee

[J.R.]

17 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

You need to go out to your own text entry area imminently under the quote box and press backspace twice from there.

 

This forum uses a strange software, different to all others. It's got a lot of quirks, good and bad.

 

Tried that, it backspaced the character break and when it let the text box instead of deleting it it started deleting the following text.

 

No great problem, its just a quirk, its better than most.

 

There is another quirk which results in people making double postings.

 

If you write a reply or quote someone but by then it is not the last page (there have been subsequent postings) when you click "submit" nothing appears to happen, so you click "submit" again and maybe even a 3rd time without being able to see that your posting has been made and duplicated on the next page.

[wyx087]

Currently planning trip to Isle of Skye.

 

I honestly can't see how driving ICE I could make it there much quicker. After 2+ hours I will need a comfort break anyway.

Also, this is based on today's weather. May able to get there with 1 charge stop end of May.

 

 

Oh yes, on mobile all kind of strange stuff happens. I restrain myself from visiting forum on mobile. I get more enjoyment out of my life than browsing forums 😛 

 

Edited 11 March by wyx087

[Graham Butcher]

7 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Currently planning trip to Isle of Skye.

 

I honestly can't see how driving ICE I could make it there much quicker. After 2+ hours I will need a comfort break anyway.

Also, this is based on today's weather. May able to get there with 1 charge stop end of May.

Some of us can go for longer stints without a comfort break. I know a person who has to have a comfort break at each motorway services and does so without fail, even if they are only a few miles apart.

 

Forum software is never optimised correctly for mobile use anyway, it can be a bit hit and miss the results you get on a mobile.

Edited 11 March by Graham Butcher

[Paws4Thot]

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

As to the misquote, I know that is a real pain not being able to undo something,

Ah but you can, at least for your recent posts. Click on the ellipsis (...) top right of your post that you want to edit. You'll be presented with a 3 item menu, Report, Share and Edit. Now press the Edit item.

 

The "spoiler" control works the same sort of way as bold, italic, underscore and strikethrough, but...

Spoiler

hides your text that you type in the spoiler box.

 

So press on "reveal hidden contents" to see what's in the box.

Edited 11 March by Paws4Thot