I have parked my EV under the Scottish Parliament when visiting there and Dynamic earth.

 

Unless ANPR recognises the vehicle as an EV and stops access to multi-storey carparks / airport car parks, drop off points etc i suppose me and others will keep on doing the same.

That may the case in Scotland, I said and the video presenter said Westminster buildings. 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

We need to greatly step up the research into how we can minimise these hazards and have the correct systems and procedures in place before we have mass adoption of EVs happening, putting all kinds of people at great risk without their knowledge in most cases.

Very balanced view. I totally agree we need to hugely step up research, awareness and procedure training to handle possible EV fire.

 

But, at 11:31 he mentions second hand EV battery trade should not be allowed. He also been very dismissive of how batteries catch fire, only concentrating on what happens after it catches fire. The key thing Prof. Christensen forgets here is that it isn't when, it's a very low probability if. Again, we need to step up research for battery re-use and re-certification in order to allow safe re-use of second hand EV batteries.

 

Also, his concluding statements that charging need be cautious is very unnecessary and perhaps opinion is formed by his research into battery thermal runaways. Earlier, he acknowledges that battery would only catch fire if overcharged or other ways abused. There would not be any problem using batteries normally within its parameters.

 

 

However, despite what he says, I honestly cannot find anywhere else that light BEV being banned from Westminster Abby. The comment was also not in a presented slide (that can be seen in this video) and the comment was made on the fly. I am not convinced it is entirely true. After all, are they going to ban the king from driving in there?

https://www.gridserve.com/2023/05/03/king-charles-coronation-the-electric-cars-fit-for-the-green-king/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12426141/king-charles-shows-new-electric-Audi-Q8.html  (sorry, article about King's Q8 e-tron)

 

I take it the King and the Heir will never travel in the same vehicle.

Hopefully the vehicles are not allowed any place near the British Isles Heritage buildings to park or be charged.

 

The Royals have always had a financial interest in the VW Group. That is really part of their heritage.

 

They are aware of their Carbon Footprint as they head out in convoy and then fly with a fighter jet escort up to Scotland rather than getting on the Royal Train with the entourage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

@wyx087I agree with a lot of what you say but in order not to prolong this topic again, I'll leave you with this thought, would you expect the ban on LEV being published publicly when they are pushing the electric agenda so hard on the public? Would it not be seen as yet another party gate, 1 rule for them and another for everyone else?

 

If there was no risk factor, why do you think Westminster Abbey has them banned? 

Hey, that's Ally Pally, not far from me I've walked around that end many times. There's a "first BBC TV studio" or similar sign around that corner.

 

 

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

If there was no risk factor, why do you think Westminster Abbey has them banned? 

Because it's a historic building with significant culture value and someone done a risk assessment, their fire procedures haven't been updated to effectively combat EV fires. Wait a few more years and I'm sure it would be an urban myth oft repeated by anti-EV brigade. In reality it would no longer be banned because training and procedure had caught up. Unfortunately same as your stipulations, I have no way to prove it is the case in a few years time.

I presume this is already in this thread of 'Fire fire fire'.     We are doomed, doomed i say. 

covered-car-parks-fire-safety-guidance-for-electric-vehicles.pdf

Edited 22 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

3 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Hey, that's Ally Pally, not far from me I've walked around that end many times. There's a "first BBC TV studio" or similar sign around that corner.

 

 

Because it's a historic building with significant culture value and someone done a risk assessment, their fire procedures haven't been updated to effectively combat EV fires. Wait a few more years and I'm sure it would be an urban myth oft repeated by anti-EV brigade. In reality it would no longer be banned because training and procedure had caught up. Unfortunately same as your stipulations, I have no way to prove it is the case in a few years time.

Yes I think you're right about Alley Pally, Crystal Palace was also a transmitter location for TV. 

Yes Westminster Abbey is an important building, and yet given how many ICE vehicles catch fire, I believe they are not banned. If so it must be because they don't burn as fiercely or give off loads highly toxic gases and can also be quickly put out. 

7 minutes ago, Rooted said:

I presume this is already in this thread of 'Fire fire fire'.     We are doomed, doomed i say. 

covered-car-parks-fire-safety-guidance-for-electric-vehicles.pdf 4.5 MB · 0 downloads

I think I've already posted that before IIRC. 

4 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes Westminster Abbey is an important building, and yet given how many ICE vehicles catch fire, I believe they are not banned. If so it must be because they don't burn as fiercely or give off loads highly toxic gases and can also be quickly put out. 

Again, I think it's more about what you had been saying earlier about training.

 

ICE fire vs EV fire is different, there's different probability and different severity. It does not mean one is worse than the other. It's just different and require different risk mitigations.

@Graham ButcherIt was irony.  I knew you had.

 

It is the same old same old that keeps being repeated until the time that something actually happens to change things.

Maybe Windsor Castle will go up in flames again. 

 

 

 

EV fires, in perspective, the truth not the bull.........

https://www.evfiresafe.com/ 

Document of issues and real stats.

 

Fully Charged also talking to Emma Sutcliffe and the Youtuber crap talkers....

 

23 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Again, I think it's more about what you had been saying earlier about training.

 

ICE fire vs EV fire is different, there's different probability and different severity. It does not mean one is worse than the other. It's just different and require different risk mitigations.

Different probability granted, but severity is far greater, it is far hotter and more likely to spread quicker and is also more than hot enough to melt / burn steel and because it actually generates its own oxygen, even submerging in water can't stop it, neither does CO2 , the best we can currently do is to try and contain it and clear the surrounding area of any combustible material.

13 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Different probability granted, but severity is far greater, it is far hotter and more likely to spread quicker and is also more than hot enough to melt / burn steel and because it actually generates its own oxygen, even submerging in water can't stop it, neither does CO2 , the best we can currently do is to try and contain it and clear the surrounding area of any combustible material.

 

Severity greater than a burning liquid flowing like a lava flow ?

Treatment is different yes, fire blankets seem to be a better way to act on EV traction battery fires.  

Maybe have stratified car parks. Lower levels for ICE where water sprinkler can be deployed and upper levels where fire blankets can drop from the roof to over the vehicle but reality is the vast majority of cark parks have no fire fighting equipment and that is the cheap way of having car parks as despite the hysteria with parts of media as fires are rare although making spectacular pictures and click bait articles.  

 

There is IMO a very good article in 'Autoexpress; by Mike Rutherford.  'Electric cars could end up like Betamax'.     He hits the nail on the head. 

 

26 minutes ago, Rooted said:

There is IMO a very good article in 'Autoexpress; by Mike Rutherford.  'Electric cars could end up like Betamax'.     He hits the nail on the head. 

 

Had this dilemma myself.

Was thinking about my transport needs for the next 15 years about 6 months ago.

As a private car buyer I ended up with an ICE car.

 

When my garage was rebuilt a few years ago I even had an armoured mains electrical cable buried in to the new building big enough for electric car charging.

 

Have no regrets with the new car though.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Severity greater than a burning liquid flowing like a lava flow ?

That does not always happen, and if it does, then yes the fire will still spread just the same, but the big difference here that the liquid fuel burns far cooler than a traction battery.

45 minutes ago, Rooted said:

There is IMO a very good article in 'Autoexpress; by Mike Rutherford.  'Electric cars could end up like Betamax'.     He hits the nail on the head. 

Here is that link you mentioned, nailed it he did.

 

‘Electric cars could end up like Betamax’ | Auto Express

@RootedAs regards to the Royals, I think you will find that the cars used in those videos and those used for all official duties are in fact provided by the government and not their own personal choice of transport. These are operated by the royal section of the Police force, therefore of course the government are going to want the King and other members of the family on public duty to be seen in electric cars to reinforce their greenwashing statements and actions.

@Graham ButcherI think KC 3 does not give a flying duck what the government wants. & they are the UK,s biggest scroungers and they like to not put their hands in their own pockets when they can help it.

They (Young Royals) have blasted about Deeside in Audi,s for Decades on wee jollies across the snow roads with their Royal Protection Officers. 

 

 

Edited 22 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

@RootedI'm not denying that aspect, just the electric bit being their choice. When on their wee jollies, they are not on public duties and may or may not travel in electric Audi's.

No they are not on Public Duty nipping off to Grantown on Spey for some Country Wear. 

 

Charles is all about the green as house fly.  Always sniffing about Billionaires.  Up and down the UK like a blue arsed fly.

While he is in Scotland William will be in England, & vice versa.  

Dead scared one snuffs it in the wrong country.   

Still not getting the electric connection though, as to the rest of it, I agree with you, even though he has more than enough money of his own. Oh and I did say that they are NOT on public duties, they are as you say, on wee jollies,

Edited 22 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

'Electric cars could end up like Betamax'. 

 

That wont happen because unlike my Sony Betamax VCR I have not bought an EV 😁

 

It was worth the humiliation though, it was the first and only time that I had a bank loan to purchase something, a loan I was still paying back when the VCR was ditched.

 

I must at some time have been abducted by aliens and a different person returned to earth in my body, I cannot identify at all with a muppet so desperate to have the latest must have in his rented housing association bedsit that he took out a bank loan.

4 hours ago, Rooted said:

Maybe Windsor Castle will go up in flames again. 

 

That caused my contractors liability insurance premium to skyrocket and with exclusions meaning that I could not even use a gas powered pencil soldering irom without employing someone to stand beside me with a fire extinguisher.

 

Another experience worth having though, from that day on the only insurances I have ever had have been those I am legally obliged to, my house is not even insured, it has cellular clay block walls, concrete ceilings and virtually nothing flammable inside, no curtains like Windsor Castle, a fire starting from a birds nest in the right place in the eaves in the right conditions might, just might burn the roof timbers but even the A frames are concrete block.

 

I still would not allow an electric Trottinette inside though 😃, I evicted my final renter because he was too attached to his derestricted 70kph Chinese fire waiting to happen to park it outside in the secure storage shed with charging facilities that I had created especially for him and repeatedly brought it into his apartment. I had insurance and had gone completely over the top with fire prevention measures unlike any other similar establishment but I was not going to compromise the safety of other occupants.

@J.R.Buying a Betamax was also one of my mistakes, on paper it looked like a clear winner, but history proved otherwise 😁

 

I wonder if there are any working examples of the Philips 2000 laser disc players around.

Edited 22 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher