3 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

The Great Divide. Home / Work place charging EV owners.

 I wonder if a Socialist Government or the Champagne Socialist Government the UK has might start to think the Haves are having it just a bit too good with off peak tariffs and special deals from some Utility Providers. 

 

Greg Jackson spent some time the Rachel Reeves recently.

 

Bold move to take away the winter allowance from everyone and put it through so the money is actually spent on fuel.

 

The cheap ev tariffs are not subsidised but purely a factor of those times of the day when nobody else wants to buy lecky.

 

With more of Dogger bank coming on line and more international interconnectors lecky should get cheaper and cheaper.

 

I would like to see more tidal, zooming around in an HMRC/ Border Force Cutter I can appreciate ho powerful those tidal currents are in between the Scottish Islands and here in the Bristol channel we could generate 5 or 6 GWs much of the time. 

 

Hopefully that hydroelectric water storage, 30 Gwh would be awesome.

 

The reduced tariff is a Pi55 take for those that are nearest to where electricity is generated and have to pay more for it.    England and a UK government that was not allowing on shore wind farms in England.       There is already lots of possible generation around the UK.  Trouble is the none Nationalised Nation Grid.     Social divide is the greed of some to get provided with products cheaply. 

Edited 23 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere

15 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Greg Jackson spent some time the Rachel Reeves recently.

 

Bold move to take away the winter allowance from everyone and put it through so the money is actually spent on fuel.

 

The cheap ev tariffs are not subsidised but purely a factor of those times of the day when nobody else wants to buy lecky.

 

With more of Dogger bank coming on line and more international interconnectors lecky should get cheaper and cheaper.

 

I would like to see more tidal, zooming around in an HMRC/ Border Force Cutter I can appreciate ho powerful those tidal currents are in between the Scottish Islands and here in the Bristol channel we could generate 5 or 6 GWs much of the time. 

 

Hopefully that hydroelectric water storage, 30 Gwh would be awesome.

 

The only way that lecky will get cheaper is with proper regulation or better still take it back into public ownership so any profits remain here in the UK and not foreign banks.

40 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Don't think companies do fixed rate on these EV tariffs which are charging well less than 10 per kwh and probably will be in Q4, we tend not to hear until mid last month of the quarter.

 

I think there might be capped rates for dual tariffs like Economy 7, 10 but they are not in the same league for cheapness as Octopus Go and intelligent Go and a couple of other similar tariff to those.

 

E.on Next offer an EV driver fixed tariff, so I guess that other suppliers do the same.

I looked at the Eon Next Drive tariff today.

No way would i get enough of a saving on the overnight EV charging 12-7am to cover the increase of the Daily Chargers and tariff.

(Small battery EV.)

Not with the tariff i have fixed til next July. 

 

PS.

A couple or 3 EV,s charging then really a no brainer, or covering the miles to empty the cars battery and overnight charging at home can be win win, 

especially if very little electricity and gas is being used through the day. 

Taxi Drivers, Couriers, Business users on a winner, especially those getting paid mileage expenses.

Edited 23 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere

28 minutes ago, moley said:

E.on Next offer an EV driver fixed tariff, so I guess that other suppliers do the same.

 

Sounds good but the other benefits such as the Electroverse are worth quite careful bit to me.  When I charge in public chargers using Electroverse it just comes off my house account and as I am usually in credit it does nit hit me at all. 

 

E.ON and those others in the car charging sphere should keep prices down.

 

EDF must gave tahen a huge bath on their 3 year tariffs, which are only just coming to an end, must have cost them billions.

 

Very loyal to Octopus as part of the Third Way. Earned quite a bit in referrals. May get a heat pump off them soonish as the survey criteria has been relaxed.

 

 

6 hours ago, Ootohere said:

The reduced tariff is a Pi55 take for those that are nearest to where electricity is generated and have to pay more for it.    England and a UK government that was not allowing on shore wind farms in England.       There is already lots of possible generation around the UK.  Trouble is the none Nationalised Nation Grid.     Social divide is the greed of some to get provided with products cheaply. 

 

North Sea, ie Dogger English area, Bristol Channel tidal and Hinkley nuclear should be plenty with more and more home solar pushing down the demand, even with the increasing population.

 

Scottish people depopulating Scotland is an issue, as seen in the reduced number of seats in Westminster as the percentage of people living in Scotland reduces as of the total if the UK.

 

At least the sea route interconnector gets round the pylons issue.

 

If Scotland go independent they could sell the electricity in competition with Denmark, France, Holland and Norway who do such?

 

 

Edited 24 August, 20241 yr by lol-lol

@lol-lol  You are having a laugh. 

The Pylons are still going up from Kintore to Tealing and then south, and the Substation.

As to depopulation, well we know which Government has blocked the migrants coming and settling in Scotland.

Manipulating Boundries really does not tell the story of a reduced population.  The UK Government have no idea how many are in the UK or in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland or those other Isles that are part of the British Isles, / Channel Islands, IOM. 

(They do not count them on an count them off. Because that might be embarrassing / difficult to answer for.)

 

Lets not shed a tear for EDF.

When the last nuclear power station in Scotland, the only Nuclear power station i hope EDF pay the full clean up costs and not the tax payers or other energy company customers which seems to be the way things work out.

(Lots of electricity produced by them in Scotland that was exported for use across the Border.)

Edited 23 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere

On the subject of switching a car for train on a trip, how much do you think a sleeper cabin for an overnight train between London and Cornwall costs? £217, yes, that's right that's one way, not a return.

 

No wonder car is king, well under half that price you can get 5 people to Cornwall.

 

 

Yes but that's a sleeper train which isn't a totally representative Price is it as it includes the "sleeper" element.

The "base price for travel from London to Penzance by train is closer to £80 (which granted is still up there but is nowhere near the cost of having a cabin) and look at all those CO2 savings you can brag about to your green friends ;o)







Meanwhile a National Express ticket for the same date/time is




I do of course concur that the same journey by car would be cheaper especially if multiple people travelling 


presuming a petrol car at 40mpg thats 7.6 gallons/28.8 litres which at average london prices (£1.42/litre) is £40.90 (presuming fastest route taken)  so actually the National Express price for an individual travelling is quite competitive plus you get driven

I know he says in the video there are 2 sleeper trains in the UK so why the title 'only sleeper train left in the UK'.   Just somethings Youtubers do really.

 

Caledonian Sleeper.

Not cheap, you might have to book well in advance. Busy busy busy, people have money. 

@Winston_Woof true, but the car will take you door to door in comfort and at a time of your choosing 😉

Oh completely agree, I was simply clarifying the differences

There are people that do not drive cars, have cars or travel by car.

A few million likely in the UK.

 

 

 

Edited 24 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere

15 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

There are people that do not drive cars, have cars or travel by car.

A few million likely in the UK.

 

 

 

 

Which probably reflects the quality (or lack) of the alternatives

People with cars also travel places without their car.

This is the point of Park & Rides.  The reason Train Stations had car parks, not just for staff.

People from households use Public Transport if there is public transport. There are multiple occupied homes where people might be going different places in the 1.3 average cars.

Then Bus tour holidays etc. 

Bloody scary hybrid car in a crash ie F1 driver Sargent totals his F1 car and it catches fire......

 

15 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

So tell me again just how buses are the answer, and who was it that drove people into car ownership, and who is it that now wants to separate us from our cars?

I never said saying buses are the answer.

 

Right tool for the right job. The more built up area, the less cars. Cars go to park and ride then public transport into the said built up area.

 

Key is having all the other options good enough so that most people use those as first choice.

My main point is cars should not equal to freedom. This entrenched idea is what's driving the backlash against any sort of restriction and even at making streets safer.

I totally agree that it is decades of poor short term decisions that lead us down this route. But it's never too late to change.

 

Most of the time those fanning the backlash are not even remotely related to the area, just like recent racist protests.

Actually I don't think freedom is the full issue.

 

It's actually more to do with convenience.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

I never said saying buses are the answer.

 

Right tool for the right job. The more built up area, the less cars. Cars go to park and ride then public transport into the said built up area.

 

Key is having all the other options good enough so that most people use those as first choice.

My main point is cars should not equal to freedom. This entrenched idea is what's driving the backlash against any sort of restriction and even at making streets safer.

I totally agree that it is decades of poor short term decisions that lead us down this route. But it's never too late to change.

 

Most of the time those fanning the backlash are not even remotely related to the area, just like recent racist protests.

Oh for the record, I was implying that you said the buses were the answer, did you close, the railway goods service down? That was I believe the government of the day and hence the question was aimed at politicians, and hence why I don't have any faith in the governments over the current electric car policy which I firmly believe will be proven in due  course to be the wrong strategy

 

Problem is that for me to use the park and ride, I have to drive out of the city to park and bus back into the city to go shopping, juggle 5 or 6 bags of shopping onto a bus to go back to the park and ride car park and drive back into the city, zero logic there for me, just juggling the bags is a no-no, I can't walk that far, not particularly steady of my feet either, yes, yes, I know, the right tool for the job, which is exactly what I'm already using. I'm like you, speaking from a personal view point of what is right for me.

 

You will never get the other options right for most people in today's society, people lead such a busy life now, many have second jobs in order to make ends meet, and the places that have to be at various times are these so often in opposing directions and locations. Years ago all shopping, banks, dentists, libraries, dentists etc all used to be in the town centres, these days that is no longer the case (London might still be one of the exceptions due to its maturity).

 

In my city for instance, it used to be a small market town that has steadily grown over the years and is now granted city status. All the essential services that people used on a regular basis were all located in the town centre which was then tightly encircled by housing estates. This growth has meant that the town centre could no longer cater for peoples weekly food shopping requirements  and many of the buildings were listed buildings and so knocking them down and building larger shops was not an option. That meant that supermarkets moved out to the edge of town where there was open spaces for them to build big stores and car parks. Then along come more housing estates beyond them and the shops etc that they vacated have converted into flats etc in the city centre so we have a city centre that is mainly residential and eating establishments with a couple of shopping malls that are decades old and there is not a single food shop in either of them.

 

Now I have seen the same thing repeat itself time and time again all across the country in smaller towns.

 

In the old days, you never had to wait long for a bus to arrive as the town was pretty small and so a bus would take only a few minutes to go from end to the other of its route these days the routes are so long that there are no routes that do that, all routes now from the edge of the city to the pedestrianised centre and back again, hence they are called shuttles now. So depending on where you need to go it could involve multiple bus changes and walk a across the pedestrianised centre to reach your next boarding point add in a fixed (currently £2 per bus, per person) it could be a lengthy and expensive process, and hence a car makes it so much more comfortable, quicker and easier and can also be cheaper than buses. 

Edited 24 August, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

I never said saying buses are the answer.

 

Right tool for the right job. The more built up area, the less cars. Cars go to park and ride then public transport into the said built up area.

 

Key is having all the other options good enough so that most people use those as first choice.

My main point is cars should not equal to freedom. This entrenched idea is what's driving the backlash against any sort of restriction and even at making streets safer.

I totally agree that it is decades of poor short term decisions that lead us down this route. But it's never too late to change.

 

Most of the time those fanning the backlash are not even remotely related to the area, just like recent racist protests.

Dead right ,right tool for job ,when we go into york we always use park and ride ,same with leeds were only 14 miles away but always take the bus and sometimes train on return jouney ,more relaxed than driving and trying to park in a city ,but sometimes the buses can be hit and miss here ,arriva are always short staffed .

Metro/underground would be the evidence of not needing a car I would have thought.

Then quick link to multi modal link.

 

Birmingham International Airport, rail and motorway hub, with HS2 being added in the next few years if the only place in the UK I can think off that has a host of modes in one place.

 

54 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Actually I don't think freedom is the full issue.

 

It's actually more to do with convenience.

Well then, for sake of saving lives and less pollution, being slightly inconvenienced is no big deal.

 

Why are small group of people up in arms about it?

 

Feels very similar to the pushback against EV's........

11 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Well then, for sake of saving lives and less pollution, being slightly inconvenienced is no big deal.

 

Why are small group of people up in arms about it?

 

Feels very similar to the pushback against EV's........

 

Because the saving lives bit has been thoroughly debunked as over egged and, whilst not false, largely incorrect in terms of scale. 

 

And because people value convenience and their time more highly than they value the issues that are 'solved' by the alternatives. 

 

I'm not saying either is correct but that's the way it is. 

Edited 24 August, 20241 yr by skomaz

28 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Because the saving lives bit has been thoroughly debunked as over egged and, whilst not false, largely incorrect in terms of scale. 

I'd be very interested to learn more about debunking slower speed limit saves lives.

 

29 minutes ago, skomaz said:

And because people value convenience and their time more highly than they value the issues that are 'solved' by the alternatives. 

Selfishness. Got it 👍